The Shiller Speaks

[Darkowl]

I love snipers. When my auctions are ending I pour myself a glass of wine and sit back to enjoy the show. It's exciting to watch.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

Sometimes it's the snipers who actually raise the price to the FMV (or even higer).

[1Cool]

Most of my sniping activity benefits ebay sellers because I am usually just increasing the amount others end up having to pay....

 

 

You actually make a really great point here.

 

There's time's when I snipe, and I don't win, because a previous bidder actually had a much higher bid then I was willing to place. In turn, the seller receives a nice price for his item, and the high bidder get's the item for what his max bid was. It's a win win.

 

The same price increase would occur if the bid was placed 10 minutes before the auction ended. I don't bid on many auctions but when I do I place my max bids on certain books and forget about it. If I win good but if not then someone else gets it. The few times I've sniped before I've felt like I'm just playing the system which left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I see what you're saying, but by nature, I'm not one to place my max bid with 10 minutes remaining...it's far too risky. I take my chances and bid at the last 2 seconds (seems backwards doesn't it?) I may lose or win the auction, but one fact remains, the seller now has a higher bid than he would have If the auction had 10 minutes to go, and no one else would have bid (which happens). For auctions like these, It's the sniper who raised the final bid.

 

 

100% agree that a sniper bid is way better then no bid.

[HarveySwick]

If an auction runs for 7 days, which is 168 hours, or 10,080 minutes, or 604,800 seconds...

 

What's the difference in which second you put your bid in? The auction has a set run time. Second #604,795 is no different that second #11. All seconds are available to all bidders. Why some of them get their own special designation is

 

Because if a snipe goes through with 3 seconds left there is little time for another bidder to react, thus gives the sniper a better shot at a lower ending price. If you enter your max bid with a minute left, that's a hell of a lot of time for bidders to keep one clicking the price up to your max bid.

 

Understand now?

 

I think he was defending the pro-sniper side of the argument.

 

I agree - sniping is in the rules for E-Bay auctions while shilling is not. But if I'm not mistaken there are auction where shilling your own auction is ok where as sniping would not work at a live auction. Would shilling still be wrong if its allowed?

I believe you're referring to Heritage Auctions. They were "shilling" in the sense that they would list a book they do NOT own. If the auction was going to end lower than expected, they would "shill" in that they would actually try to win the book so they could sell it themselves. I don't see that really as an owner/seller of a book shilling up a price so they can make higher profits.

[youmechooz]

The rest of the people are left scratching their heads wondering what the heck just happened.

Here, I'll simplify it for you.

 

Book is worth $30

Person A bids $10

Person B bids $11

Person A bids $12

Person C bids $20 with 5 seconds left

Person A + B

Person C

 

Question... If the book was worth $30 and both Person A and B would have paid $30...

 

Why didn't they just make their max bid $30?

 

Are you saying Person C should have allowed Person A and B to compete with him and increase their bids? Should everyone get a "Thanks for participating" medal?

But with sniping software isn't it,

 

Book is worth $30

Person A bids $10

Person B bids $11

Person C bids $30

Current bid is at $12

Person D uses sniping program and has a max bid of $25

Sniping program increases the bid at the last 1 second by the minimum amount required.

Book ends at $22.50 and is won by Person D

Person C Wtf?

Person D

 

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

[Dr. Balls]

Book is worth $30

Person A bids $10

Person B bids $11

Person C bids $30

Current bid is at $12

Person D uses sniping program and has a max bid of $25

Sniping program increases the bid at the last 1 second by the minimum amount required.

Book ends at $22.50 and is won by Person D

Person C Wtf?

Person D

 

If Person C bids max $30 and the current bid is $12, Person D comes in with a max bid of $25 snipe, Person C wins it for the next bid increment up from $25.

 

The only way Person D would win on his snipe is if his max bid was over $31.

[ItsJustRyan]

I play around with snipes. The other night there was an item I wanted but didn't wanna pay a lot for and didn't want to get up a 7:30 am est to bid. So, I entered what I call a "value bid" snipe, meaning if I win at the snipe bid it's a great deal for me, but if I lose no big deal because I don't anticipate winning anyway.

 

Sometime you do though. So many variables in play. What it is. Who's bidding. Time of day. Time of month. Etc.

[Dr. Balls]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

[youmechooz]

Book is worth $30

Person A bids $10

Person B bids $11

Person C bids $30

Current bid is at $12

Person D uses sniping program and has a max bid of $25

Sniping program increases the bid at the last 1 second by the minimum amount required.

Book ends at $22.50 and is won by Person D

Person C Wtf?

Person D

 

If Person C bids max $30 and the current bid is $12, Person D comes in with a max bid of $25 snipe, Person C wins it for the next bid increment up from $25.

 

The only way Person D would win on his snipe is if his max bid was over $31.

Ahh I see.

I thought the sniping was whoever has the highest at the very end so if,

person C has the max bid at $30 and the bid is at $12

Person D (sniping) has his max bid at $25

last second it goes back and forth between C and D in that last second

C-12.50

D-12.75

C-13

D-13.50

C-13.75

D-14 (auction time ended, person D is at the top of the list so he wins).

 

I thought it was like this but its not. Thanks for clearing that Jason. Yea, why don't bidders just put in their max bid at the start of the auction if they are not using sniping software? Makes sense to just use sniping software. Also, shilling is terrible and completely different than sniping.

[youmechooz]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

ahh, makes complete sense now.

[Darkowl]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

 

But doesn't ebay prevent you from putting a bid in that doesn't meet the current increment?

[Dr. Balls]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

ahh, makes complete sense now.

 

Yeah, you have to adjust your snipes the more bids that come in - because the increments keep changing the higher the prices go. Super frustrating when you lose on something you want for like three dollars because you forget to make the adjustment!

[Dr. Balls]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

 

But doesn't ebay prevent you from putting a bid in that doesn't meet the current increment?

 

Yes - your snipe software and Ebay won't let you put in an incorrect bid amount. Ebay will notify you there on-screen, but with a Sniper program, because you're sniping the last 3-5 seconds, you don't have a chance to adjust your bid for the error.

[Darkowl]

I have asked this before more than once. Not sure how sniping software works but have had different customers complain they lost books that were sold lower than their max bid and I figured it was sniping software. If I am wrong, please explain the sniping software to me as I honestly dont understand it.

 

You have to have your snipe set at above the next bid increment.

 

If your max snipe is $205, you can lose the auction to $202, because your next bid is not mathematically possible because on a $202 auction price, the next increment would be $207. The sniping software (nor Ebay for that matter) cannot place a $205 bid on a $202 price, because it's not the correct bid increment. That's how you lose an auction even though your snipe is higher than the winning bid.

 

Happens to me (and lots of other people) often when I'm not paying attention to the bidding.

 

But doesn't ebay prevent you from putting a bid in that doesn't meet the current increment?

 

Yes - your snipe software and Ebay won't let you put in an incorrect bid amount. Ebay will notify you there on-screen, but with a Sniper program, because you're sniping the last 3-5 seconds, you don't have a chance to adjust your bid for the error.

 

Ok. That's what I recall as well.

[slym2none]

I only sell via BIN and don't usually get involved with auctions on E-Bay so I don't really have a horse in the race but . . is shilling basically the flip side of sniping. A shiller artificially inflates the price of a book to maximize the amount people will pay for the book while the sniper bids at the last second to artificially pay the least he can for a book. If the auction was extended for 10 minutes after the last bid to allow the other bidders to respond with their highest bid then it would be a true auction where the books goes to the highest bidder in the room. I realize sniping is allowed by E-Bay where as shilling is not but I personally see the two practices as flip sides of the same coins.

 

No... because there is no harm in sniping. No malicious intent. Not even close, IMHO.

 

 

 

-slym

[youmechooz]

I only sell via BIN and don't usually get involved with auctions on E-Bay so I don't really have a horse in the race but . . is shilling basically the flip side of sniping. A shiller artificially inflates the price of a book to maximize the amount people will pay for the book while the sniper bids at the last second to artificially pay the least he can for a book. If the auction was extended for 10 minutes after the last bid to allow the other bidders to respond with their highest bid then it would be a true auction where the books goes to the highest bidder in the room. I realize sniping is allowed by E-Bay where as shilling is not but I personally see the two practices as flip sides of the same coins.

 

No... because there is no harm in sniping. No malicious intent. Not even close, IMHO.

 

 

 

-slym

+1 Seems like people who use it just try to get the best deal.

[slym2none]

The rest of the people are left scratching their heads wondering what the heck just happened.

Here, I'll simplify it for you.

 

Book is worth $30

Person A bids $10

Person B bids $11

Person A bids $12

Person C bids $20 with 5 seconds left

Person A + B

Person C

 

Question... If the book was worth $30 and both Person A and B would have paid $30...

 

Why didn't they just make their max bid $30?

 

Are you saying Person C should have allowed Person A and B to compete with him and increase their bids? Should everyone get a "Thanks for participating" medal?

 

I don't know - I guess people just do not always post their max bid. They are stupid. The book was still purchased for $20 when there was a buyer sitting right there who would have bid $30 if a $29 bid would have come through 10 minutes before the end. Sniping (or silent auction format) artificially decreased the final auction end price by $10.

 

I don't understand this line. Because, it didn't artificially decrease anything.

 

I'mma read on though, looks like I am just getting started. Please see my sig-line if there is any misunderstanding.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

If an auction runs for 7 days, which is 168 hours, or 10,080 minutes, or 604,800 seconds...

 

What's the difference in which second you put your bid in? The auction has a set run time. Second #604,795 is no different that second #11. All seconds are available to all bidders. Why some of them get their own special designation is

 

Because if a snipe goes through with 3 seconds left there is little time for another bidder to react, thus gives the sniper a better shot at a lower ending price. If you enter your max bid with a minute left, that's a hell of a lot of time for bidders to keep one clicking the price up to your max bid.

 

Understand now?

 

I think he was defending the pro-sniper side of the argument.

 

I agree - sniping is in the rules for E-Bay auctions while shilling is not. But if I'm not mistaken there are auction where shilling your own auction is ok where as sniping would not work at a live auction. Would shilling still be wrong if its allowed?

 

Yes, and I would never buy anything off of eBay again if they allowed it.

 

 

 

-slym

[bababooey]

[slym2none]

beezid.com may be more the type of auction your looking for 1cool? Unfortunately they don't do anything with comic books, however it gives everyone a chance to get a final bid in, snipers are allowed but every time a bid goes through, it resets the countdown timer to the end of the auction.

 

With that being said, I think these types of auction sites are more of a scam than someone shilling on ebay.

 

I believe they charge you to bid, and since each bid is only 1¢, but they charge like 5¢ per bid, you might pay an aucton price of $100 for a $1000 item, you also pay $500 in fees. And the losers still have to pay for their bids.

 

This is my understanding of these kinds of sites, but I am not 100% positive how correct I am.

 

 

 

-slym

[Darkowl]

beezid.com may be more the type of auction your looking for 1cool? Unfortunately they don't do anything with comic books, however it gives everyone a chance to get a final bid in, snipers are allowed but every time a bid goes through, it resets the countdown timer to the end of the auction.

 

With that being said, I think these types of auction sites are more of a scam than someone shilling on ebay.

 

I believe they charge you to bid, and since each bid is only 1¢, but they charge like 5¢ per bid, you might pay an aucton price of $100 for a $1000 item, you also pay $500 in fees. And the losers still have to pay for their bids.

 

This is my understanding of these kinds of sites, but I am not 100% positive how correct I am.

 

 

 

-slym

 

I'm pretty sure that some of these sites, like QuiBids will give you the chance of buying the item at retail price If you lose the auction, and they will let you use the money you've put into that auction towards the item.