The Shiller Speaks

[Darkowl]

Makes me wonder If shilling is more or less morally correct than ebay's double dipping fees with paypal.

[slym2none]

do shillers keep bumping up a book above their reserve price in the hopes is squeaking out every cent. Not too familiar with the process.

 

This.

 

Look at it this way - seller who shills his auction has a $100 book starting at $9.99 and for some reason, I am the only one interested in it. here's how the two scenarios look:

 

me - bids $70 early on

seller/shill see my early bid, and bumps it from $9.99 to $15, then to $20, to $25, then maybe $1 at a time, all the way until he hits $70 as well but since I had the early bid, my $70 bid is the one that stands. Auction ends, I pay $70 because of the seller who shills. There is the conflict of interest. Now, the next scenario:

 

Seller puts his auction out at $9.99

no one bids until one day left, some guy puts in $10 to win it cheap, shiller sees it can't go higher so doesn't do anything. I come in with 5 seconds to go and puts in my $70 bid, yet I win for $11.

 

The other bidder wasn't serious, so I got it cheap. The onus is on the seller to either start his auctions at a price he can afford to sell it for or to take the risk of selling it very cheap. A seller should do anything he can short of illegal moves, like shilling (since it is a conflict of interest) to sell his product for as much as he can. Once he crosses that line, however, it is a fraudulent maneuver.

 

In no way is sniping fraudulent.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Dano]

Seems like a lot of sweat equity for a shiller to squeeze pennies out of a bidder, not to mention a poor moral compass. I'd rather be me.

 

Dan

[Buzzetta]

Fair warning - I am going to shill my gold/silver/bronze listings on the forum only putting up random replies for various items. I will use the same account for everyone's ease.

 

 

 

[slym2none]

Seems like a lot of sweat equity for a shiller to squeeze pennies out of a bidder, not to mention a poor moral compass. I'd rather be me.

 

Dan

 

Yep.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Red84]

A shiller deprives the bidder the "benefit of the bargain"

[VintageComics]

A shiller deprives the bidder the "benefit of the bargain"

 

A shiller insures that someone else will step up. Even if they don't.

 

 

 

 

[Red84]

A shiller deprives the bidder the "benefit of the bargain"

 

A shiller insures that someone else will step up. Even if they don't.

 

 

 

 

Actually that's the exact opposite of what a shiller does. If there was another bidder the shill bidding would be pointless(hence no second bidder is "stepping up" when you shill to artificially inflate an auction price ). You can try and justify shilling all you want but it is a shady, deceptive, fraudulent, and low business practice used by shady individuals to deprive bidders of a fair auction result.

[bababooey]

All this pent up anger directed because of shillers demonstrates the collector condition.

 

NO ONE made you overpay for those books but you !!!!

 

[bababooey]

[Columbia Comics]

Actually that's the exact opposite of what a shiller does. If there was another bidder the shill bidding would be pointless(hence no second bidder is "stepping up" when you shill to artificially inflate an auction price ). You can try and justify shilling all you want but it is a shady, deceptive, fraudulent, and low business practice used by shady individuals to deprive bidders of a fair auction result.

 

[incoflip]

All this pent up anger directed because of shillers demonstrates the collector condition.

 

NO ONE made you overpay for those books but you !!!!

 

 

I tend to agree with bababooey here. I buy on ebay from time to time..(less now that I'm starting to use the benefits of these boards) but when I do see something I want. I place my max bid at whatever I feel I'm comfortable paying for that item and set back and watch what happens. (although I have sniped a time or two if I'm looking for a quick pickup)

 

[incoflip]

Shilling and sniping, in my opinion, are not related in the slightest. Shilling takes away a fair market value of an item and atrificially inflates it. Sniping just achieves the FAIR market value between two or more legitimate bidders in an honest auction.

[kav]

yup

[kav]

Perfect example is people are now pricing MP 15 at $4000 based on the shilling that occurred.

[VintageComics]

A shiller deprives the bidder the "benefit of the bargain"

 

A shiller insures that someone else will step up. Even if they don't.

 

 

 

 

Actually that's the exact opposite of what a shiller does. If there was another bidder the shill bidding would be pointless(hence no second bidder is "stepping up" when you shill to artificially inflate an auction price ). You can try and justify shilling all you want but it is a shady, deceptive, fraudulent, and low business practice used by shady individuals to deprive bidders of a fair auction result.

 

I'm not trying to justify it. I don't agree with shilling.

 

That's why I said that a shill bidder insures someone steps up to drive the bid up (to the benefit of only the seller) when no other bidder would have stepped up. My post that you quoted was a bit tongue in cheek but you probably missed it.

 

I think shill bidding is shady, deceptive, fraudulent and low just like you do.

 

And I think it's much more common than people want to publicly admit. I always wondered why my books at auction sit relatively dead with crickets chirping while I see similar books in other auctions always get fired up early. Shilling is probably part of the answer.

[HarveySwick]

Perfect example is people are now pricing MP 15 at $4000 based on the shilling that occurred.

But GPA is corrected now. So those sales SHOULD be corrected as well. Otherwise, they'll be sitting there with an asking price of $4,000 and GPA figures of $1.999.

[kav]

Yep.

Unless they try to reel in a sucker using ebay past sales

[Dr. Balls]

I always wondered why my books at auction sit relatively dead with crickets chirping while I see similar books in other auctions always get fired up early. Shilling is probably part of the answer.

 

[KPR Comics]

 

 

I think shill bidding is shady, deceptive, fraudulent and low just like you do.

 

And I think it's much more common than people want to publicly admit. I always wondered why my books at auction sit relatively dead with crickets chirping while I see similar books in other auctions always get fired up early. Shilling is probably part of the answer.

 

Naw, Roy. Your books are like the hot cheerleader that everyone's afraid to ask to the prom. Those others are more like the pep squad girl who is close enough to pretty that you have to look twice to make sure she isn't. She gets asked first.