fantastic_four Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 How Fox & Marvel Can Save The ‘Fantastic Four’ A direct Fantastic Four sequel in 2017 doesn’t fit; a crossover (anytime soon) with the X-Men doesn’t fit; and a quick reboot doesn’t fit either. Does Fox then sit for a while and try again to keep the rights? Perhaps. That’s how they’ve done it in the past but we’d like to think there’s an opportunity here for everyone to benefit. Fox flat out selling back the Fantastic Four rights back to Marvel or trading for merchandise or TV rights to the X-Men doesn’t seem too realistic, but perhaps they come up with another sort of deal similar to Sony’s. What if Fox and Marvel work together to relaunch the Fantastic Four? Hear us out. Marvel’s plans for the next 4-5 years (known as Phase 3) do not leave much room for a Fantastic Four movie and even if they needed to shift dates around again like they did for Spider-Man, Marvel may not want to. And they don’t need the Fantastic Four themselves either. Instead, Reed Richards and his team could be introduced as supporting characters for use later. More importantly, and why Marvel really wants the property back, is to have access to the library of supporting characters. Dr. Doom is a key villain in many of Marvel’s largest crossover events, including what the last three years of Avengers stories in Marvel Comics have been building towards – the biggest event ever in Marvel known as the modern Secret Wars. Doom and (two versions of) Reed Richards are all central characters in these current events. On top of that, it was widely publicized a few years ago when Fox’s hold on the Daredevil rights was expiring that Marvel reportedly tried to make a deal to let Fox keep Daredevil in exchange for the right to use a few supporting FF characters, namely Galactus and Silver Surfer. Fox said no. But since it’s possible Fantastic Four as a series is now dead before it even starts, maybe a deal can be made now. After all, if Fox isn’t going to use their Marvel cosmic characters, Marvel Studios certainly can. It might be the only way fans see them on the big screen and if Fox can’t get Fantastic Four right (and they couldn’t) and if they don’t work with Marvel (they haven’t been able to so far) then the real crime is preventing these stories and characters from being realized on screen. The fatal flaw is that the problems with all of Fox's movies are at the upper management level, and people in that position will virtually never tell their boss what boils down to "we can't do our job, so can we hire Marvel to do it for us?" All we can hope for is that the Fox CEO figures out that working with Marvel is in their best interest. Unfortunately the current CEO is fairly new to the position, and it wasn't long after he got it in 2012 that relations with Marvel went from frosty to all-out war from both sides, so I'm not optimistic. The key point will be the outcome of their negotiations to get the X-Men television show. Let's hope for a diplomatic victory there of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Plus a period piece would cross over nicely with the X-Men 1st Class timeframe as well. Which was the best-written yet lowest-earning of all the X-Men films. While historical drama is my absolute favorite type of fiction and I'd enjoy a period piece, it has become clear to me after watching my favorite historical dramas get cancelled early over the years that most people don't. Mad Men was a critically-acclaimed show that I watched from start to finish that I was surprised lasted as long as it did due to mediocre ratings. The sci-fi, space, and relationship elements that were appealing about the FF in 1961 are all still appealing today, so it can definitely be translated to modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 The fatal flaw is that the problems with all of Fox's movies are at the upper management level, and people in that position will virtually never tell their boss what boils down to "we can't do our job, so can we hire Marvel to do it for us?" All we can hope for is that the Fox CEO figures out that working with Marvel is in their best interest. Unfortunately the current CEO is fairly new to the position, and it wasn't long after he got it in 2012 that relations with Marvel went from frosty to all-out war from both sides, so I'm not optimistic. The key point will be the outcome of their negotiations to get the X-Men television show. Let's hope for a diplomatic victory there of some sort. I'm not sure about 'all of Fox's movies' as the X-Franchise has had more hits than misses. Even with THE WOLVERINE, there was an article that came out saying there was Marvel representation on set for this film, and they were pleased. Once the heat was on from both sides, things broke down and there wasn't anything even resembling a production partnership. If they both got over their relationship hurdles, the great stories that can be told and yes - money to be made for them all - could be massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 How Fox & Marvel Can Save The ‘Fantastic Four’ A direct Fantastic Four sequel in 2017 doesn’t fit; a crossover (anytime soon) with the X-Men doesn’t fit; and a quick reboot doesn’t fit either. Does Fox then sit for a while and try again to keep the rights? Perhaps. That’s how they’ve done it in the past but we’d like to think there’s an opportunity here for everyone to benefit. Fox flat out selling back the Fantastic Four rights back to Marvel or trading for merchandise or TV rights to the X-Men doesn’t seem too realistic, but perhaps they come up with another sort of deal similar to Sony’s. What if Fox and Marvel work together to relaunch the Fantastic Four? Hear us out. Marvel’s plans for the next 4-5 years (known as Phase 3) do not leave much room for a Fantastic Four movie and even if they needed to shift dates around again like they did for Spider-Man, Marvel may not want to. And they don’t need the Fantastic Four themselves either. Instead, Reed Richards and his team could be introduced as supporting characters for use later. More importantly, and why Marvel really wants the property back, is to have access to the library of supporting characters. Dr. Doom is a key villain in many of Marvel’s largest crossover events, including what the last three years of Avengers stories in Marvel Comics have been building towards – the biggest event ever in Marvel known as the modern Secret Wars. Doom and (two versions of) Reed Richards are all central characters in these current events. On top of that, it was widely publicized a few years ago when Fox’s hold on the Daredevil rights was expiring that Marvel reportedly tried to make a deal to let Fox keep Daredevil in exchange for the right to use a few supporting FF characters, namely Galactus and Silver Surfer. Fox said no. But since it’s possible Fantastic Four as a series is now dead before it even starts, maybe a deal can be made now. After all, if Fox isn’t going to use their Marvel cosmic characters, Marvel Studios certainly can. It might be the only way fans see them on the big screen and if Fox can’t get Fantastic Four right (and they couldn’t) and if they don’t work with Marvel (they haven’t been able to so far) then the real crime is preventing these stories and characters from being realized on screen. The fatal flaw is that the problems with all of Fox's movies are at the upper management level, and people in that position will virtually never tell their boss what boils down to "we can't do our job, so can we hire Marvel to do it for us?" All we can hope for is that the Fox CEO figures out that working with Marvel is in their best interest. Unfortunately the current CEO is fairly new to the position, and it wasn't long after he got it in 2012 that relations with Marvel went from frosty to all-out war from both sides, so I'm not optimistic. The key point will be the outcome of their negotiations to get the X-Men television show. Let's hope for a diplomatic victory there of some sort. That CEO has to answer to shareholders though.. and this film is going to be a big fat loss. And if there's one thing shareholders get very edgy about it's BIG FAT losses. ASM2, despite what it shows on Bosco's chart, was a big loser for Sony, but not anywhere near what a debacle this FF film will be for Fox. Marvel gave Sony an escape plan that worked great for everyone. I'm sure they're going to offer Fox something, and... How would the shareholders feel about this CEO doubling down on this turd? I can't imagine it would go over very well. All of this talk about sequel, and still committed and yadda yadda yadda is just talk while it's still in theaters. Anything can happen, and we'll hear a lot of talk, but I have a feeling that when the dust clears, Marvel Studios will come out of it with some type of win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 That CEO has to answer to shareholders though.. and this film is going to be a big fat loss. And if there's one thing shareholders get very edgy about it's BIG FAT losses. ASM2, despite what it shows on Bosco's chart, was a big loser for Sony, but not anywhere near what a debacle this FF film will be for Fox. Marvel gave Sony an escape plan that worked great for everyone. I'm sure they're going to offer Fox something, and... How would the shareholders feel about this CEO doubling down on this turd? I can't imagine it would go over very well. All of this talk about sequel, and still committed and yadda yadda yadda is just talk while it's still in theaters. Anything can happen, and we'll hear a lot of talk, but I have a feeling that when the dust clears, Marvel Studios will come out of it with some type of win. ASM2 may come up on the positive side before any additional unknown expenses would be deducted (marketing budget being $180 MM, which is massive). So since all I am showing is like revenue results, there is still the hidden expenses. Now when you look at Fox Studios' 10K for 2014, here is what it lists as its portfolio of films. The Company’s motion picture and television library (the “Fox Library”) consists of varying ownership and distribution rights to several thousand previously released motion pictures and many well-known television programs. Motion pictures in the Fox Library include many successful and well-known titles, such as The Sound of Music , Mrs. Doubtfire , Home Alone , the Star Wars series, the X-Men series, Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow , the Ice Age series, The Planet of the Apes series, Sideways , Walk the Line , The Devil Wears Prada , Little Miss Sunshine , the Night at the Museum series, the Alvin and the Chipmunks series, Slumdog Millionaire , Life of Pi and Taken, as well as four of the top 20 domestic box office grossing films of all time, which are Avatar , Titanic (together with Paramount Pictures Corporation), Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. And when you look at box office results, Fox is #1 though you wouldn't realize that. DEADLINE: 2014 Domestic Box Office Final For the 2014 reporting period, 20th Century Fox generated $1.94 B ($5.5 B worldwide) compared to Walt Disney Films' $1.62 B. Fox Sets Global Box Office Record With $5.5 Billion Haul In 2014 And for 2014, Fox outperformed everyone in total box office results. So worst-case, the CEO could even note F4 as a business risk that didn't work out. But that they were still backing the franchise. So this is not a Sony situation where financially Fox is begging for revenue. We shall see what comes of this. Hopefully, it goes back to more a partnership than a combative competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Except in 2013 they were 5th and 2012 when they were 6th, and 2011 when they were 6th etc. 2014 was a fluke year for Fox (they had three major tentpole movies that year (How to train your dragon 2, Dawn of the Planet of the apes and DOFP), (they are projected 4th this year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperheart Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That CEO has to answer to shareholders though.. and this film is going to be a big fat loss. And if there's one thing shareholders get very edgy about it's BIG FAT losses. ASM2, despite what it shows on Bosco's chart, was a big loser for Sony, but not anywhere near what a debacle this FF film will be for Fox. Marvel gave Sony an escape plan that worked great for everyone. I'm sure they're going to offer Fox something, and... How would the shareholders feel about this CEO doubling down on this turd? I can't imagine it would go over very well. All of this talk about sequel, and still committed and yadda yadda yadda is just talk while it's still in theaters. Anything can happen, and we'll hear a lot of talk, but I have a feeling that when the dust clears, Marvel Studios will come out of it with some type of win. ASM2 may come up on the positive side before any additional unknown expenses would be deducted (marketing budget being $180 MM, which is massive). So since all I am showing is like revenue results, there is still the hidden expenses. Now when you look at Fox Studios' 10K for 2014, here is what it lists as its portfolio of films. The Company’s motion picture and television library (the “Fox Library”) consists of varying ownership and distribution rights to several thousand previously released motion pictures and many well-known television programs. Motion pictures in the Fox Library include many successful and well-known titles, such as The Sound of Music , Mrs. Doubtfire , Home Alone , the Star Wars series, the X-Men series, Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow , the Ice Age series, The Planet of the Apes series, Sideways , Walk the Line , The Devil Wears Prada , Little Miss Sunshine , the Night at the Museum series, the Alvin and the Chipmunks series, Slumdog Millionaire , Life of Pi and Taken, as well as four of the top 20 domestic box office grossing films of all time, which are Avatar , Titanic (together with Paramount Pictures Corporation), Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. And when you look at box office results, Fox is #1 though you wouldn't realize that. DEADLINE: 2014 Domestic Box Office Final For the 2014 reporting period, 20th Century Fox generated $1.94 B ($5.5 B worldwide) compared to Walt Disney Films' $1.62 B. Fox Sets Global Box Office Record With $5.5 Billion Haul In 2014 And for 2014, Fox outperformed everyone in total box office results. So worst-case, the CEO could even note F4 as a business risk that didn't work out. But that they were still backing the franchise. So this is not a Sony situation where financially Fox is begging for revenue. We shall see what comes of this. Hopefully, it goes back to more a partnership than a combative competition. these guys have done the homework for you http://deadline.com/2015/03/amazing-spider-man-2-profit-box-office-2014-1201389608/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firespitter Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think the sequel talk is just grand standing and puffery. Or at most, it is Fox's way of saying "you're not getting FF back, Marvel. I don't care if I have to give my 10 year old son a flip-cam and have him film the sequel in my back yard with the family dog and stuffed animals as the actors. We're going to keep cranking out crapfests, if nothing else to rub salt in the wound." <- All evidence points to this latest movie is testimony of that exact intent. "We're Fox, and we can take horrible actors, and no plot combined with elements from Fast and the Furious and Dr. Who, and call it Fantastic Four, and watch Marvel marbles over it." Fox can't seriously think that they can build a good sequel off of this tar-pit of a foundation/origin movie. And if you are planning on doing ANOTHER reboot in 7-9 years, you will have completely lost any viewer confidence at that point. No one will go to another FF reboot. And no one will go to a succession staring these actors and/or this level of (mis)direction. I think Fox's announcement of a sequel is them stating their intent to hold on to the FF franchise completely out of spite. They may not throw any more money at the FF, but they will not let it go from their cold untalented uncreative dead hands either, unless Marvel is willing to pony up insane amounts of money (and why would they?). Fox will simply ride-out the contract with complete abandon to spite Marvel and their repeated successes. It will be their way of giving Marvel the finger for past transgressions (real or imagined). -Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Cataldo Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 As long as there is a movie actively in development, Fox can hold the rights. They don't even have to release a film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Except in 2013 they were 5th and 2012 when they were 6th, and 2011 when they were 6th etc. 2014 was a fluke year for Fox (they had three major tentpole movies that year (How to train your dragon 2, Dawn of the Planet of the apes and DOFP), (they are projected 4th this year) The CEO is measured on most recent results. So if anything, that person can point to 2014 and note how under their leadership Fox now set the worldwide record for most box office revenue ever generated by a studio. Again, this is not Sony. Fox is not tight for cash, and cutting any corner it can to keep the doors open. It is ahead of Disney even, which says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think the sequel talk is just grand standing and puffery. Or at most, it is Fox's way of saying "you're not getting FF back, Marvel. I don't care if I have to give my 10 year old son a flip-cam and have him film the sequel in my back yard with the family dog and stuffed animals as the actors. We're going to keep cranking out crapfests, if nothing else to rub salt in the wound." <- All evidence points to this latest movie is testimony of that exact intent. "We're Fox, and we can take horrible actors, and no plot combined with elements from Fast and the Furious and Dr. Who, and call it Fantastic Four, and watch Marvel marbles over it." Fox can't seriously think that they can build a good sequel off of this tar-pit of a foundation/origin movie. And if you are planning on doing ANOTHER reboot in 7-9 years, you will have completely lost any viewer confidence at that point. No one will go to another FF reboot. And no one will go to a succession staring these actors and/or this level of (mis)direction. I think Fox's announcement of a sequel is them stating their intent to hold on to the FF franchise completely out of spite. They may not throw any more money at the FF, but they will not let it go from their cold untalented uncreative dead hands either, unless Marvel is willing to pony up insane amounts of money (and why would they?). Fox will simply ride-out the contract with complete abandon to spite Marvel and their repeated successes. It will be their way of giving Marvel the finger for past transgressions (real or imagined). -Terry I do agree something doesn't smell right about the most recent statements. Like it very much is someone using these announcements as a bargaining chip. I just hope decisions about characters and stories I care about get tossed into the wood chopper just to spite either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It seems like a lot of people think that politics or hurt feelings play a huge factor in what comes next. While it matters, the bottom line matters more. Prior to this movie, Fox genuinely thought that 100% of revenues from an FF movie would be better than 10 or 20% of a Marvel Studios movie, especially when they can keep control and have full rights to residuals and create relationships with the young on-the-rise actors, etc, with a chance to build a franchise/universe/xmen crossover with possible Silver Surfer and Doctor Doom and solo FF member movies. I'm sure they expected at worst to break even, and maybe get marvel to pay more for the rights to take it back. "We can keep breaking even every 4 years for eternity....so pay us more now!" But they got squat...Fox management/shareholders won't let that happen again, certainly not out of spite. They'd rather get a huge payout plus 10% of future revenues for doing nothing rather than put in WORK to lose $100M and get embarrassed every 5-7 years. Marvel will lowball Fox, but ultimately they'll compromise because they'll want SOMETHING moderately well known after Phase 3, and I think they'd love to bring back the F4 comic at some point As for the 'spite' of executives at Fox, odds are those people are in pretty hot water now, they'll listen to shareholders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 As long as there is a movie actively in development, Fox can hold the rights. They don't even have to release a film. They probably have to finish it and intend it for release. The only reason the 1994 film wasn't released is that Marvel paid the producer not to. Avi Arad once said Marvel paid "a couple of million dollars" to buy the film's rights and destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 As long as there is a movie actively in development, Fox can hold the rights. They don't even have to release a film. They probably have to finish it and intend it for release. The only reason the 1994 film wasn't released is that Marvel paid the producer not to. $2-3 MM not to release it. (Roger Corman mentioning his total budget for 'The Fantastic Four' was one million dollars). In the case of 'The Fantastic Four' where Marvel purchased the movie for an additional few million dollars so as not to have it released to the public, this has not been included in the final analysis. %20really%3F%20Arad%22&f=false'>Los Angeles Magazine, March 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 OH MY! Josh Trank Lawyers Up As Shocking Details About His On Set Behaviour Emerge HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: 'Fantastic Four' Blame Game: Fox, Director Josh Trank Square Off Over On-Set "Chaos" With Fox furious about his now deleted Tweet about the movie, the trade reveals that pit-bull lawyer Marty Singer has been hired to advocate on Trank's behalf. Wow! After sending an email to select members of the cast days before the movie was released in which he said Fantastic Four was "better than 99 percent of the comic-book movies ever made," he received a response from one cast member with only: "I don’t think so." Ouch! Trank apparently didn't produce good enough material to ever create a film which could be salvaged, and refused help from the studio and producers. "He holed up in a tent and cut himself off from everybody," one insider tells the site. "He built a black tent around his monitor. He was extremely withdrawn. [He] would go to his trailer and he wouldn’t interact with anybody." While Fox initially had faith in Trank's vision of a grounded and gritty Fantastic Four movie, it appears as if the filmmaker took that too far as he forced a gloomy tone on the movie by obsessing over the cast's performance. "During takes, he would be telling [cast members] when to blink and when to breathe. He kept pushing them to make the performance as flat as possible." You may remember some time ago that Josh Trank and his dogs were accused of causing as much as $100,000 worth of damage to a house which was rented for him in Baton Rouge by Fox. After landlord Martin Padial made moves to evict the director, "photographs of the landlord’s family that were in the house were defaced. Padial made a complaint to the local sheriff’s department and filed a civil suit in Louisiana that is sealed.The sheriff’s department says the case was 'closed as a civil matter between landlord and tenant.'" Before you completely blame Trank for how Fantastic Four turned out, one source says that the movie was always "ill-conceived, made for the wrong reasons and there was no vision behind the property." Fox were terrified of losing the rights to Marvel and the reboot was in chaos before shooting even started. They "were afraid of losing the rights so they pressed forward and didn’t surround [Trank] with help or fire him. They buried their heads in the sand." While they initially considered firing Trank, Fox had faith in the director and believed he could be the next J.J. Abrams. However, as it became apparent that he couldn't cope with the movie, it was simply to late to ditch him. "How do you ask someone to take over half of a movie shot by someone else? You either hire somebody desperate for work or you [start over], write off pretty much the whole budget and lose the cast." Fair point! Those reshoots have been blamed for the poor quality of Fantastic Four, but the movie apparently didn't even have an ending when shooting concluded. Simon Kinberg and Hutch Parker scrambled to come up with something, but the former's busy schedule and the fact that much of the cast was unavailable led to "a lot of material was shot with doubles and the production moved to Los Angeles to film scenes with Teller against a green screen. 'It was chaos,' says a crew member, adding that Trank was still in attendance 'but was neutralized by a committee.'" Who was responsible for that terrible ending and second act? Fox reportedly put together a dream team to rescue the move, and that included Drew Goddard. Whatever he and the rest of that team did obviously failed horribly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 And I the only one who ISN'T shocked to hear this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 it was simply to late to ditch him They need an editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 And I the only one who ISN'T shocked to hear this? Fox has had a few days to spin this. As has Trank. Ultimately, it's Fox's film, Fox's money and Fox's flop. If they waiting too long to put out another film and then pressured Trank, that is again Fox. Could be wrong but that's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperheart Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 And I the only one who ISN'T shocked to hear this? one hit wonder. will be interesting to see when/if he ever directs another film. won't be anything w/ any kind of budget when/if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyTheAbyss Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Not to pile on but I paid good money to make the following comment... Horrid. Absolutely horrid. The only reason I didn't walk out was because the girlfriend fell asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
