X-men 94 selling for below guide

[Darthdiesel]

I think I just figured it out...it is a CGc 9.6 Xmen 94 VOL2 for $575 - man that seller made out like a bandit!

[october]

In the future there might be a large call for mid-grade SA books, a demand that outweighs the supply. Right now the demand is not there and the supply is, scarcity has nothing to do with it.

 

Why would there be a big demand in the future? There are very few new comic readers, so where will this demand come from?

 

New people do not have to enter the hobby for demand to increase. Like I said before, as more investors enter the hobby looking for high end books, the more prices on HG stuff will go up. If the current trend continues (buying a HG slab and flipping 6 months later) and HG prices keep going up, the average collector (NOT the investor) will be priced out of the HG market. These people, and there a lot more of us then there are BSDs, will have to look for VF or worse to accomodate their pocketbook. This would drive up the prices on the lesser grade stuff.

[garthgantu]

October: I think that's a realistic scenario. The fact that VF is even a recognized "middle ground" between FN and NM is a step in that direction, if you look at the back issue market over the past 25+ years.

 

Even as recently as five years ago, the emphasis on high grade was consideraly less than it is today... if the current trend continues, the price difference between 8.0 and 9.4 will continue to expand - but the "aesthetic difference" between 8.0 and 9.4 shouldn't. I think there will be a time in the next few years when many collectors opt for the 8.0 book at $200 vs. the 9.4 at $5,000. It's already happening, but no one really notices because the record-setting 9.4 sales get all the attention.

[october]

October: I think that's a realistic scenario. The fact that VF is even a recognized "middle ground" between FN and NM is a step in that direction, if you look at the back issue market over the past 25+ years.

 

Even as recently as five years ago, the emphasis on high grade was consideraly less than it is today... if the current trend continues, the price difference between 8.0 and 9.4 will continue to expand - but the "aesthetic difference" between 8.0 and 9.4 shouldn't. I think there will be a time in the next few years when many collectors opt for the 8.0 book at $200 vs. the 9.4 at $5,000. It's already happening, but no one really notices because the record-setting 9.4 sales get all the attention.

 

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am saying. For me, the extra damage to the VF is acceptable since I can buy 3 -4x more books in that grade for my money. Someone said earlier that people might just buy fewer HG books in the future if prices continue to rise, and that is certainly a real possibility. In my mind though, I would rather have 5 SA/BA VFs that a single NM. That's just my personal preference and I understand if someone feels otherwise. I would bet that the average collector, with a moderately sized budget, would feel the same way as I do though. VF collectors are the silent majority since the BSDs fighting over HG get most of the attention, not to mention the fact that most of the big posters here are HG collectors. However, I think it is erroneous to assume that the people and habits on this board are reflective of the hobby in general. People here are the lucky exception rather than the rule. Most collectors don't have the means to pay over a few hundred on a book...something that I think people here might forget sometimes. The "average" collector does not have a huge budget and, as a result, is somewhat marginalized in the market equation. However, what we lack in depth, we make up for in sheer number of people and as the prices for HGs continue to multiply, people like me will be more and more common.

[Mr. Zipper]

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am saying. For me, the extra damage to the VF is acceptable since I can buy 3 -4x more books in that grade for my money. Someone said earlier that people might just buy fewer HG books in the future if prices continue to rise, and that is certainly a real possibility. In my mind though, I would rather have 5 SA/BA VFs that a single NM. That's just my personal preference and I understand if someone feels otherwise. I would bet that the average collector, with a moderately sized budget, would feel the same way as I do though. VF collectors are the silent majority since the BSDs fighting over HG get most of the attention, not to mention the fact that most of the big posters here are HG collectors. However, I think it is erroneous to assume that the people and habits on this board are reflective of the hobby in general. People here are the lucky exception rather than the rule. Most collectors don't have the means to pay over a few hundred on a book...something that I think people here might forget sometimes. The "average" collector does not have a huge budget and, as a result, is somewhat marginalized in the market equation. However, what we lack in depth, we make up for in sheer number of people and as the prices for HGs continue to multiply, people like me will be more and more common.

 

 

My only correction would be, "I'd rather have TEN SA/BA VFs than a single NM."

 

[sfilosa]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

[Foolkiller]

october:

 

I think you raise some really good points about the plain economics of the fact most people can't afford to consistently drop $500 or $1k on a single book or just a few books and want to spread their money over many books.

 

Even five or six years ago, you could still find NMs in stores and at local shows for guide, because people were trying to move the product. Now finding raw NMs is difficult, especially for books of note. So even collectors who were mostly focussed on NMs or better, now have to drop their sights just slightly. I can't (and don't want to) afford NMs costing $1500 or so for a single book. Paying $500 for a NM Batman 232 is NOT my idea for comic collecting. But... nonetheless I have and will spend thousnds each year on comics, but there's so much material, great material, that I want a copy with nice eye appeal I can enjoy with good page quality and add it to my collection. I feel no necessity to always own "the best" anymore.

 

If a book is a strict VF and we're talking a key, I really don't feel a need to haggle about paying guide or just around guide if the book has nice white pages and has good eye appeal. I'm sure I could if I looked hard, but I don't want to always wait and wait and wait. To me, eye appeal has become more important than grade.

[october]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

 

I have to say I am suprised by these numbers, especially ASM 50 and FF 48. Are they particularly common in HG? I know I heard that FF 48 is.

[skybolt]

October: I think that's a realistic scenario. The fact that VF is even a recognized "middle ground" between FN and NM is a step in that direction, if you look at the back issue market over the past 25+ years.

 

Even as recently as five years ago, the emphasis on high grade was consideraly less than it is today... if the current trend continues, the price difference between 8.0 and 9.4 will continue to expand - but the "aesthetic difference" between 8.0 and 9.4 shouldn't. I think there will be a time in the next few years when many collectors opt for the 8.0 book at $200 vs. the 9.4 at $5,000. It's already happening, but no one really notices because the record-setting 9.4 sales get all the attention.

 

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am saying. For me, the extra damage to the VF is acceptable since I can buy 3 -4x more books in that grade for my money. Someone said earlier that people might just buy fewer HG books in the future if prices continue to rise, and that is certainly a real possibility. In my mind though, I would rather have 5 SA/BA VFs that a single NM. That's just my personal preference and I understand if someone feels otherwise. I would bet that the average collector, with a moderately sized budget, would feel the same way as I do though. VF collectors are the silent majority since the BSDs fighting over HG get most of the attention, not to mention the fact that most of the big posters here are HG collectors. However, I think it is erroneous to assume that the people and habits on this board are reflective of the hobby in general. People here are the lucky exception rather than the rule. Most collectors don't have the means to pay over a few hundred on a book...something that I think people here might forget sometimes. The "average" collector does not have a huge budget and, as a result, is somewhat marginalized in the market equation. However, what we lack in depth, we make up for in sheer number of people and as the prices for HGs continue to multiply, people like me will be more and more common.

 

The average grade for my CGC collection (350 books) is 8.0. I would say that my moderns (30% of total) are around 9.6, my bronze (20%) around 9.0, my silver (25%) around 7.5, and my golden (25%) around 6.5. If I only stuck with 9.4 and above grades then I would either wind up with a slew of MA or BA books, or have around 30-40 non MA books in my collection.

 

As I've stated before, I would much rather own X-Men #101 -110 in CGC 9.4 grade than one 9.8 copy of X-Men #101. I would also much rather own X-Men # 50-110 in 8.0 than #100-110 in 9.4. Especially since I've never owned a run of these books in any grade.

[october]

october:

 

I think you raise some really good points about the plain economics of the fact most people can't afford to consistently drop $500 or $1k on a single book or just a few books and want to spread their money over many books.

 

Even five or six years ago, you could still find NMs in stores and at local shows for guide, because people were trying to move the product. Now finding raw NMs is difficult, especially for books of note. So even collectors who were mostly focussed on NMs or better, now have to drop their sights just slightly. I can't (and don't want to) afford NMs costing $1500 or so for a single book. Paying $500 for a NM Batman 232 is NOT my idea for comic collecting. But... nonetheless I have and will spend thousnds each year on comics, but there's so much material, great material, that I want a copy with nice eye appeal I can enjoy with good page quality and add it to my collection. I feel no necessity to always own "the best" anymore.

 

If a book is a strict VF and we're talking a key, I really don't feel a need to haggle about paying guide or just around guide if the book has nice white pages and has good eye appeal. I'm sure I could if I looked hard, but I don't want to always wait and wait and wait. To me, eye appeal has become more important than grade.

 

I feel the same way. Eye appeal has always been a huge selling point for me and if I can get a F+ with a small BC tear for half the price of a VF with less eye appeal, that's what I would do. I am always suprised when there is such a gap between eye appeal and grade. Makes for some good buys for us though.

 

Funny you should mention the 500 NM Bats 232. I had been in the market for one of those for awhile and I finally found one in F/F- for like $35. I was happy just to own the book. It surely isn't as pretty as a NM, but considering the 40 other BA books I bought with the money I didn't spend I think I made a good choice....at least from my personal collecting perspective.

[sfilosa]

I have to say I am suprised by these numbers, especially ASM 50 and FF 48. Are they particularly common in HG? I know I heard that FF 48 is.

 

Most Marvel books published after 1964 are common in high-grade. Therefore, if demand was already high for these books (as it was), there was very little chance these books will increase significantly.

[garthgantu]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

 

Sfilosa, this doesn't necessarily refute the 'argument' that October_fire is making..? Perhaps this is just the beginning of the "levelling out" of the HG pricing curve... If so, then VF prices probably won't go up much either.

 

I'll admit I'm surprised that prices for 9.4 copies of most of those books haven't increased in the past 12-24 months. Of course, these are pretty limited samples, but still...

 

Maybe JoeCollector was right all along...

[FFB]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

 

Sfilosa, this doesn't necessarily refute the 'argument' that October_fire is making..? Perhaps this is just the beginning of the "levelling out" of the HG pricing curve... If so, then VF prices probably won't go up much either.

 

I'll admit I'm surprised that prices for 9.4 copies of most of those books haven't increased in the past 12-24 months. Of course, these are pretty limited samples, but still...

 

Maybe JoeCollector was right all along...

 

Wasn't there a spike in realized prices for high grade CGC stuff in the summer of 2002 that softened in the Fall and continued into 2003? I seem to recall that there were some early sales prices that were through the roof and that things have only lately gotten to the point where a lot of those early record sales levels are being seen again.

[WiseGuyX]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

This is why I buy a lot of low grade books, I spent 35.00 bux for ASM # 50, 51, 52, 53, and 54 The highest grade is probly a 3.0 but I had a blast reading these old original prints

[WiseGuyX]

Funny you should mention the 500 NM Bats 232. I had been in the market for one of those for awhile and I finally found one in F/F- for like $35. I was happy just to own the book. It surely isn't as pretty as a NM, but considering the 40 other BA books I bought with the money I didn't spend I think I made a good choice....at least from my personal collecting perspective.

 

I had to have a copy of these book also but man I had to spend a good chunk of cash just for it in VG condition O well it was a fun book to read They did do a Batman cartoon once on this issue ( batman 232) that I wouldn't mind having also.

[burntboy]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

 

Sfilosa, this doesn't necessarily refute the 'argument' that October_fire is making..? Perhaps this is just the beginning of the "levelling out" of the HG pricing curve... If so, then VF prices probably won't go up much either.

 

I'll admit I'm surprised that prices for 9.4 copies of most of those books haven't increased in the past 12-24 months. Of course, these are pretty limited samples, but still...

 

Maybe JoeCollector was right all along...

 

puleeeaaaassseeeee - let's not go there. say it ten times slowly; "there is no crash, there is no crash.................."

[burntboy]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

This is why I buy a lot of low grade books, I spent 35.00 bux for ASM # 50, 51, 52, 53, and 54 The highest grade is probly a 3.0 but I had a blast reading these old original prints

 

GOOD for you

[october]

Actually, prices haven't moved up significantly over the past two years. Yes, there are certain key books (especially BA books that usualy sold below $500) that have, but for most issues, they haven't.

 

Example:

 

ASM #50 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Sept 2002 $2,951

Last sale in Oct 2004 2,760

 

Other than one OUTLIER (a $4,550 sale in July 2004) ALL the sales were in the two thousands.

 

ASM #100 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in June 2002 $499

Last sale in Sept 2004 $480

 

Fantastic Four #48 in NM (9.4)

 

First sale in Aug 2002 $1,358

Last sale in Oct 2004 $1,512

 

Most sales between $1,400 and $1,700

 

Just a few examples.

 

Sfilosa, this doesn't necessarily refute the 'argument' that October_fire is making..? Perhaps this is just the beginning of the "levelling out" of the HG pricing curve... If so, then VF prices probably won't go up much either.

 

I'll admit I'm surprised that prices for 9.4 copies of most of those books haven't increased in the past 12-24 months. Of course, these are pretty limited samples, but still...

 

Maybe JoeCollector was right all along...

 

puleeeaaaassseeeee - let's not go there. say it ten times slowly; "there is no crash, there is no crash.................."

 

That's what I was thinking as well....and trying to avoid. If the prices for HG are hitting their high, then the VFs won't get any higher either, but I still see prices for HG slabs getting decent premiums over their cost only 6 months before. I think the above examples are the exception rather than the rule.

[october]

Funny you should mention the 500 NM Bats 232. I had been in the market for one of those for awhile and I finally found one in F/F- for like $35. I was happy just to own the book. It surely isn't as pretty as a NM, but considering the 40 other BA books I bought with the money I didn't spend I think I made a good choice....at least from my personal collecting perspective.

 

I had to have a copy of these book also but man I had to spend a good chunk of cash just for it in VG condition O well it was a fun book to read They did do a Batman cartoon once on this issue ( batman 232) that I wouldn't mind having also.

 

Considering what this lovely specimen is going for, looks like we both probably got a good deal.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33808&item=2279407056&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[uclapeterg]

Prices for HG stuff is getting pretty crazy and it has to top out sometime. If prices for HG comics continue to get such multiples, I think collectors (not investors) will have no choice but to go to VF instead, which would drive up prices.

 

That's not really how things work. Investors would instead move to other high-grade areas if prices rise, which is what has been happening.

 

I agree...for investors. I specifically said collectors, who collect what they like and would not be content to just move into some other area.

 

I agree with you October Fire. Midgrade comics have slowly gone up in price for decades long before there were "comic investors" trading slabs like tech stocks. If anyone doesn't believe this, then please sell me all your Silver Age VFs at 1985 prices.... there should be no difference, right?

 

High grade slab investors are NOT the only factor driving the market. Thinking otherwise is very myopic. Some folks have to realize the BSDs (and BSD wannabes) are a tiny portion of the overall collecting community.

 

There are plenty of peons (like me) who are happy with Silver Age books below 9.4. The fact of the matter is when high grade books hit a certain price ceiling, collectors are forced to settle for less gradewise. As more collectors get priced out of high grades, that will create increased demand for 8.0-9.0 books. They may be in good supply and the prices won't skyrocket, but I think it's wrong to presume they won't go up at all.