THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[SC22]

3 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Don't you think they would have done that by now ? Ask Metro, ComicLink and Heritage and all the major dealers how many shipments have they made to China.

Movies can change all this even in a short time span. Never doubt the power of 2 billion people in one single nation. Chinese love art and stuff similar to comic books they just need to have a change of hearth and you could see a massive amount of new collectors....if this is not already happening on a slower pace.

Batman and Spidey are easily lovable!! So are a few others.

Edited October 25, 2017 by SC22

[Gotham Kid]

Just now, SC22 said:

Movies can change all this even in a short time span.

Oops I forgot. Movies. Yeah, they all came out just last month.

[SC22]

Just now, Gotham Kid said:

Oops I forgot. Movies. Yeah, they all came out just last month.

Exactly the young kids that grew up on them are getting older and will soon be joining the work force in China and when their pay checks start rolling in then they might just change the whole dynamics of the comic book collecting world.

[Gotham Kid]

or they might just blow it all on iphones, coke and hookers.

[SC22]

2 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

or they might just blow it all on iphones, coke and hookers.

Like any other nation they are already into some of that. Nothing new there.

But the coming of age of the young people who started watching the superhero movies over a decade ago can't be ignored. Once they hit the age of working and making decent incomes they can change the ''whole'' collectors base in one single generation.

[greggy]

4 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

or they might just blow it all on iphones, coke and hookers.

Or do what the rich kids from wealthy Chinese families do here in Vancouver.  Drive terribly in their Ferraris, Bentleys, and other various luxury vehicles.

[ThothAmon]

5 minutes ago, greggy said:

Or do what the rich kids from wealthy Chinese families do here in Vancouver.  Drive terribly in their Ferraris, Bentleys, and other various luxury vehicles.

Please don't get me started about those entitled Canadians in Florida.

[Jordysnordy]

25 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

or they might just blow it all on iphones, coke and hookers.

This option sounds great. I’m liquidating my collection. PM me for prices.

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, SC22 said:

Yeah no other people except Westerners enjoy comic books (now and in the future)....lollll!!

 

Who even made such a ridiculous claim?

[greggy]

1 hour ago, greggy said:

Or do what the rich kids from wealthy Chinese families do here in Vancouver.  Drive terribly in their Ferraris, Bentleys, and other various luxury vehicles.

Or be stuck with driving an i8 for the ghetto Mainland China families. 

[SC22]

50 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Who even made such a ridiculous claim?

The idea that Westerners will always be the key market for comic books is unfounded. Comic books and superheroes have such  huge potential around the globe. That is what I am getting at.

Edited October 26, 2017 by SC22

[grebal]

Plus more Shielas.

[Glassman10]

When I began working with Eveline in the Shanghai glass factory she said the greatest problem in western interaction was the language which she simply said was impenetrable.  Eveline was raised in British schools in Hong Kong and holds dual US/PRC citizenship.  I have seen her staring at a language character for 40 seconds before she says what it means. She has no interest in selling glass to the west. Her interest is in the Chinese middle Class.

The Chinese middle class is a mere 350  Million people, or more than all residents of the United States.  If the Chinese can come to worship KFC, they're quite capable of getting into comics.  More Lamborghinis are sold in Shanghai than anywhere else in the world. The language is a primary barrier in that, it's not money.  China has movie stars that have made over 40 top run movies and none of us have ever heard of the actors.  Discounting them would not be sensible. Expanding market is pretty important in any business. 

I do have some trouble seeing the AF15  reprint cover with Kanshi Characters though. 

[delekkerste]

2 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

The Chinese middle class is a mere 350  Million people, or more than all residents of the United States.  If the Chinese can come to worship KFC, they're quite capable of getting into comics.  More Lamborghinis are sold in Shanghai than anywhere else in the world. The language is a primary barrier in that, it's not money.

Anyone can potentially appreciate KFC or a Lamborghini.  They are non-verbal and non-language based items.   You don't need to speak English or Italian to appreciate a Lamborghini.  You don't have to be American to like the taste of KFC.  Yes, anyone can appreciate the pictures in comics, or just the cover showing through a slab, but, even among North American buyers, the ones who drop the big $$$ are the ones who have read the stories, appreciated the artwork, gone through the experience of growing up with comics, searching for back issues, coveting the big books when they were younger, etc.  People from a different culture have none of that shared experience. 

I don't see people here clamoring to buy Chinese language-based books or other collectibles where proficiency in Mandarin is essential to understanding it - why would we expect foreigners to do differently with English language-based things?  Because the world revolves around superheroes?  Why would they gravitate to comics when there are literally millions of other things out there they could be interested in, including things they grew up with, things in their own language,  things that are more universally coveted (e.g., property, luxury goods, etc.)?  As if they don't have their own culture and haven't aspired to own other things their whole lives.  The Ameri-centric, comic-centric viewpoint expressed by some here is not only shockingly unrealistic, it's also quite parochial and provincial. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by delekkerste

[ComicConnoisseur]

22 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

why would we expect foreigners to do differently with English language-based things? 

Maybe than the Indians will be the big international players as their layman do speak English at a higher frequency than the Chinese average citizen? So maybe the Indians will be the big international buyers of comics do to having the English language being used more wide-spread in India than China.

Also Bollywood is kind of like Hollywood, so I could see the Indians being big pop culture players of American stuff.

Edited October 26, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[s14roller]

I suppose the question is, do the Chinese collect similar art to the North Americans?  If so, I can see the younger generation collecting comic book art for it's character, rarity, and asset value. 

[SECollector]

38 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

why would we expect foreigners to do differently with English language-based things?  Because the world revolves around superheroes? 

Don't underestimate the (huge) influence of the American pop culture to the rest of the world. The whole Europe grew up with American TV shows, movies and video games. And before that with American music and literature. English language-based things are a part of our culture as well. 

[delekkerste]

Just now, ComicConnoisseur said:

Many than the Indians will be the big international players as their layman do speak English at a higher frequency than the Chinese average citizen? So maybe the Indians will be the big international buyers of comics do to having the English language being used more wide-spread in India than China.

Also Bollywood is kind of like Hollywood, so I could the Indians being big pop culture players of American stuff.

Why wouldn't they be more interested in Bollywood?  What is with this automatic assumption that everybody loves American comic book movies so much that they would want to spend tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars on the original copies of comics they were based on instead of all the other stuff they grew up wanting instead?  They're just movies to them!!  

List of Highest Grossing Films in India - only two U.S. films in the top 40, and neither of them are comic book films

List of Highest Grossing Films in China - only two superhero films in the top 50 (plus some Transformers and Star Wars) 

But, even if superhero films dominated both charts (which, again, they don't), how do you jump from that to people dropping $57K for an AF #15 5.0 or $261K for an 8.0?  The thought of buying an AF #15 hasn't even crossed the minds of all these people some of you are assuming will come and pick up the slack.  It's totally, totally nutty - only someone versed in this hobby is even going to think about doing that.

I cannot stress how unrealistic this notion is that you're going to have tens of thousands of high-rolling Indians and Chinese buying up expensive American vintage comic books in the future.  Never mind the fact that both countries have already been growing millionaires and billionaires at a rapid clip, and that we've had a constant stream of blockbuster superhero films for the past 15-20 years at this point.  Why would there suddenly be a sea change to these people wanting things they've never wanted before and that they have no true connection to?    

This is really parochial thinking, to believe that people from totally different cultures, backgrounds, languages, religions, socioeconomic strata, etc. are going to behave exactly like we do.  Heck, even in North America, only a minuscule proportion of people with VERY SIMILAR backgrounds are interested in this stuff to the extent that they would drop 5 or 6 figures on an AF #15 at prevailing market rates.

Knowing you as I do, CC, I'm surprised that, when it comes to comics, your mantra seems to be Hope & Change.  

[NoMan]

I know a guy who owns a comic shop in Los Angeles. his shop is really like a boutique of higher end books. He often talks about books of his being sold and ending up in "bank vaults in Japan and Dubai." 

I have no idea the history or demograph of those overseas buyers. Just that a big part of his sales is for foreign bank vaults. 

[blazingbob]

The below is a JOKE but if the collectibles market is in a bubble and I'm going to be considered 'Strutting around" I'd like to point out that I didn't come from a industry that did this.   

I'm thinking of using another model to help propel this bubble along.  

I'm going to package Comic keys into Collateral debt obligations.

I'll create CDO's by Category.  Value will be determined by GPA at time of creation.  There will be a start date and a end date.  1 Year, 5 year,  10 year, 30 year

Categories will be considered Tranches (Tranches are pieces, portions or slices of debt or structured financing.  Each portion or tranche is one of several related securities offered at the same time but with different risks, rewards and maturities)  

Here are some examples of what I'll sell to the market.

Gold A - Action #1, Batman #1, Cap #1, Det #27

Gold B - All Select #1, Marvel comics #1,

Gold C - Suspense #3, All Flash #1,  

Marvel A -  AF #15,  AS #1, , Incredible Hulk #1, JIM #83, TOS #39, , X-Men #1

Marvel B - DD #1, FF #1,  TTA #27, Incredible Hulk #181, Giant Size X-men #1

Marvel C - Amazing Adventures #11, Avengers #57, Defenders #1, Hero for Hire #1, Tomb of Dracula #10

DC A - Showcase #4, Showcase #22, B&B #28, Justice League #1

DC B - Flash #105,  Green lantern #1, Mystery in Space #53, etc

DC C - Green Lantern #76, Green Lantern #87, House of Mystery #174, Strange Adventures #205 etc

I'm then going to sell options on them,  calls and puts.  

I'm then going to sell Credit default swaps on the comic CDO's.  People can take both sides of the bet that prices will go up or prices will go down.

I will collect monthly premiums on the Credit default swaps that are betting against price appreciation.

I will collect interest on the shorts of the CDO's. 

As I collect that money I will hold monthly hooker and blow parties.

I'll let you leverage these up as high as you want to go.

Screw the Graded comic business model.  Lets go with the Wall Street Deriatives model.