THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[NoMan]

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

The below is a JOKE but if the collectibles market is in a bubble and I'm going to be considered 'Strutting around" I'd like to point out that I didn't come from a industry that did this.   

I'm thinking of using another model to help propel this bubble along.  

I'm going to package Comic keys into Collateral debt obligations.

I'll create CDO's by Category.  Value will be determined by GPA at time of creation.  There will be a start date and a end date.  1 Year, 5 year,  10 year, 30 year

Categories will be considered Tranches (Tranches are pieces, portions or slices of debt or structured financing.  Each portion or tranche is one of several related securities offered at the same time but with different risks, rewards and maturities)  

Here are some examples of what I'll sell to the market.

Gold A - Action #1, Batman #1, Cap #1, Det #27

Gold B - All Select #1, Marvel comics #1,

Gold C - Suspense #3, All Flash #1,  

Marvel A -  AF #15,  AS #1, , Incredible Hulk #1, JIM #83, TOS #39, , X-Men #1

Marvel B - DD #1, FF #1,  TTA #27, Incredible Hulk #181, Giant Size X-men #1

Marvel C - Amazing Adventures #11, Avengers #57, Defenders #1, Hero for Hire #1, Tomb of Dracula #10

DC A - Showcase #4, Showcase #22, B&B #28, Justice League #1

DC B - Flash #105,  Green lantern #1, Mystery in Space #53, etc

DC C - Green Lantern #76, Green Lantern #87, House of Mystery #174, Strange Adventures #205 etc

I'm then going to sell options on them,  calls and puts.  

I'm then going to sell Credit default swaps on the comic CDO's.  People can take both sides of the bet that prices will go up or prices will go down.

I will collect monthly premiums on the Credit default swaps that are betting against price appreciation.

I will collect interest on the shorts of the CDO's. 

As I collect that money I will hold monthly hooker and blow parties.

I'll let you leverage these up as high as you want to go.

Screw the Graded comic business model.  Lets go with the Wall Street Deriatives model. 

 

Depressing stuff. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

30 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Why wouldn't they be more interested in Bollywood?  What is with this automatic assumption that everybody loves American comic book movies so much that they would want to spend tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars on the original copies of comics they were based on instead of all the other stuff they grew up wanting instead?  They're just movies to them!!  

List of Highest Grossing Films in India - only two U.S. films in the top 40, and neither of them are comic book films

List of Highest Grossing Films in China - only two superhero films in the top 50 (plus some Transformers and Star Wars) 

But, even if superhero films dominated both charts (which, again, they don't), how do you jump from that to people dropping $57K for an AF #15 5.0 or $261K for an 8.0?  The thought of buying an AF #15 hasn't even crossed the minds of all these people some of you are assuming will come and pick up the slack.  It's totally, totally nutty - only someone versed in this hobby is even going to think about doing that.

I cannot stress how unrealistic this notion is that you're going to have tens of thousands of high-rolling Indians and Chinese buying up expensive American vintage comic books in the future.  Never mind the fact that both countries have already been growing millionaires and billionaires at a rapid clip, and that we've had a constant stream of blockbuster superhero films for the past 15-20 years at this point.  Why would there suddenly be a sea change to these people wanting things they've never wanted before and that they have no true connection to?    

This is really parochial thinking, to believe that people from totally different cultures, backgrounds, languages, religions, socioeconomic strata, etc. are going to behave exactly like we do.  Heck, even in North America, only a minuscule proportion of people with VERY SIMILAR backgrounds are interested in this stuff to the extent that they would drop 5 or 6 figures on an AF #15 at prevailing market rates.

Knowing you as I do, CC, I'm surprised that, when it comes to comics, your mantra seems to be Hope & Change.  

[comicquant]

4 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Depressing stuff. 

Actually its a brilliant way of showing collectors why there's really no such thing as a "bubble" in the world of collecting.  Almost every economic bubble we've ever had has been due to carelessness (or lawlessness) of those responsible for keeping it stable.  Sure there will be pullbacks but as collectors we don't have a web of nebulous BS standing up the value of our books.  We define the value, plain and simple.  If there's a pullback (not a bubble pop) its because we've temporarily decided, collectively, that prices are too high.  The reason for that decision is likely based on the economy but not because of the nefarious activities of grading companies or auction houses.  Bottom line is there will be hemming and hawing in mean valuation indefinitely but there will never be precipitous drops or pops.  There's really no reason for it to happen and if it ever did happen our comic's values will be the least of our worries.

[NoMan]

1 minute ago, comicquant said:

Actually its a brilliant way of showing collectors why there's really no such thing as a "bubble" in the world of collecting.  Almost every economic bubble we've ever had has been due to carelessness (or lawlessness) of those responsible for keeping it stable.  Sure there will be pullbacks but as collectors we don't have a web of nebulous BS standing up the value of our books.  We define the value, plain and simple.  If there's a pullback (not a bubble pop) its because we've temporarily decided, collectively, that prices are too high.  The reason for that decision is likely based on the economy but not because of the nefarious activities of grading companies or auction houses.  Bottom line is there will be hemming and hawing in mean valuation indefinitely but there will never be precipitous drops or pops.  There's really no reason for it to happen and if it ever did happen our comic's values will be the least of our worries.

Can the government come in and bail collectors out with public tax dollars if we over value a key? 

I'm down with that! My collection is too important to fail. 

[blazingbob]

There will always be bubbles where money is involved.  Because as you know I am cold calling everyone offering them comics with Adjustable rate deals.   Buy the comic today at 5% down,   teaser interest rate now and rate adjustment in 2 years.  Don't worry because in two years that comic will be worth more and you can refinance.  No income,  no problem.  I'll package that comic and sell it to comic investors who are dying for this stuff.  I'll create the Comic and Poor rating agency to stamp those packages for a small fee.   

God I can't make this up fast enough.  Its all been done before.  

Edited October 26, 2017 by blazingbob

[Glassman10]

26 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

The below is a JOKE but if the collectibles market is in a bubble and I'm going to be considered 'Strutting around" I'd like to point out that I didn't come from a industry that did this.   

I'm thinking of using another model to help propel this bubble along.  

I'm going to package Comic keys into Collateral debt obligations.

I'll create CDO's by Category.  Value will be determined by GPA at time of creation.  There will be a start date and a end date.  1 Year, 5 year,  10 year, 30 year

Categories will be considered Tranches (Tranches are pieces, portions or slices of debt or structured financing.  Each portion or tranche is one of several related securities offered at the same time but with different risks, rewards and maturities)  

Here are some examples of what I'll sell to the market.

Gold A - Action #1, Batman #1, Cap #1, Det #27

Gold B - All Select #1, Marvel comics #1,

Gold C - Suspense #3, All Flash #1,  

Marvel A -  AF #15,  AS #1, , Incredible Hulk #1, JIM #83, TOS #39, , X-Men #1

Marvel B - DD #1, FF #1,  TTA #27, Incredible Hulk #181, Giant Size X-men #1

Marvel C - Amazing Adventures #11, Avengers #57, Defenders #1, Hero for Hire #1, Tomb of Dracula #10

DC A - Showcase #4, Showcase #22, B&B #28, Justice League #1

DC B - Flash #105,  Green lantern #1, Mystery in Space #53, etc

DC C - Green Lantern #76, Green Lantern #87, House of Mystery #174, Strange Adventures #205 etc

I'm then going to sell options on them,  calls and puts.  

I'm then going to sell Credit default swaps on the comic CDO's.  People can take both sides of the bet that prices will go up or prices will go down.

I will collect monthly premiums on the Credit default swaps that are betting against price appreciation.

I will collect interest on the shorts of the CDO's. 

As I collect that money I will hold monthly hooker and blow parties.

I'll let you leverage these up as high as you want to go.

Screw the Graded comic business model.  Lets go with the Wall Street Deriatives model. 

 

Mix it up with issues of TV Guide and Boy's Life from 1959 in the lower ten percent.. You are offering too much value at this point. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Glassman10

[lou_fine]

32 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

The below is a JOKE but if the collectibles market is in a bubble and I'm going to be considered 'Strutting around" I'd like to point out that I didn't come from a industry that did this.   

Actually, didn't Greg Buls or somebody like that actually tried to come up with the idea of setting up a comic book index based upon the hot Image and Valiant books back in the early 90's when the newsstand market was on fire.

The idea was that you would simply invest into this comic book index as they went up in value, as opposed to wasting all that time and space to actually having to buy and store the actual comic books themselves. 

I believe the idea never got very far as the big comic book bubble crash came right after that. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by lou_fine

[delekkerste]

14 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

There will always be bubbles where money is involved.  Because as you know I am cold calling everyone offering them comics with Adjustable rate deals.   Buy the comic today at 5% down,   teaser interest rate now and rate adjustment in 2 years.  Don't worry because in two years that comic will be worth more and you can refinance.  No income,  no problem.  I'll package that comic and sell it to comic investors who are dying for this stuff.  I'll create the Comic and Poor rating agency to stamp those packages for a small fee.   

God I can't make this up fast enough.  Its all been done before.  

I'm just a guy showing how crazy it is to think that tens of thousands of Chinese and Indians are going to pick up the slack between generations in the North American comic book market.  No need to bring up any Wall Street talk that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, especially since (1) I'm not the Gene Park from the book "The Big Short" (and he was one of the good guys in the book, anyway); (2) I never got any closer to a CDO or CDS than you or anyone else here ever did; (3) I was never on the "sell-side" in my entire career and thus never structured or sold any dubious products to anybody!   

Edited October 26, 2017 by delekkerste

[Glassman10]

50 minutes ago, s14roller said:

I suppose the question is, do the Chinese collect similar art to the North Americans?  If so, I can see the younger generation collecting comic book art for it's character, rarity, and asset value. 

currently, the Chinese have an odd stance towards Art. There are specific pieces they absolutely revere and in China, imitation of those pieces is considered to be doing homage to the piece, not debasing it . I have been in villages where the entire place did the same pieces. You could be in a row of 100 shops that all made very similar things. One town I recall made and sold nothing but tapestry weavings and in the first few, one was really taken with the work but then one realized that everyone was making copies of the same things I could find in books on Chinese art. It does not occur to them that this plagiarism is not reverence. For them, it is. 

As to whether they develop interest in comics, I have no clue. I'm just telling you what I observed from close up in the time I spent there. I can say the middle class is huge and that they want western things. Shanghai is strange in that if you were in the Bund by the Yangtze river, five minutes from the opulence there are people that live and sleep with their animals in the livery.  

[peewee22]

19 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

There will always be bubbles where money is involved.  Because as you know I am cold calling everyone offering them comics with Adjustable rate deals.   Buy the comic today at 5% down,   teaser interest rate now and rate adjustment in 2 years.  Don't worry because in two years that comic will be worth more and you can refinance.  No income,  no problem.  I'll package that comic and sell it to comic investors who are dying for this stuff.  I'll create the Comic and Poor rating agency to stamp those packages for a small fee.   

God I can't make this up fast enough.  Its all been done before.  

In 2011, I bought an 8.0 for 83k from HA in a fierce bidding war. Got the spouse (man she is great!) to agree to a 2nd on the homestead to buy it. TODAY, it is probably valued at 250k plus or minus.  Amazing,  but I can now pay off both mortgages with this book if I choose. This is real stuff. Real life. Will there be a bubble? Maybe a pullback but not a bubble. Will I sell it? My spouse says NO. She loves it more than me.

[blazingbob]

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'm just a guy showing how crazy it is to think that tens of thousands of Chinese and Indians are going to pick up the slack between generations in the North American comic book market.  No need to bring up any Wall Street talk that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, especially since (1) I'm not the Gene Park from the book "The Big Short" (and he was one of the good guys in the book, anyway); (2) I never got any closer to a CDO or CDS than you or anyone else here ever did; (3) I was never on the "sell-side" in my entire career and thus never structured or sold any dubious products to anybody!   

1).  I never said you were the Gene Park from the Big short.

2).  Wall Street talk has nothing to do with the subject at hand?  You definitely have very selective memory.  You did write the below response on Sunday the 22nd.

Well, isn't both the entire stock market and comic book markets pretty much overvalued at these record high levels?  

" Just because something is at record highs does not necessarily mean it's overvalued.  But, in this case, yes, you are right. "

3).  You never shorted a stock?  You worked for a hedge fund that didn't take short portions.  Offset risk?  Buy puts?  Really?  I'm not on a Hedge fund forum so I have no idea what your firm bought and sold and to whom.  Since you only share opinions and no "advice" I have no idea what your current investment positions are as a Private investor.  You deal in the comic art market where there is no price guide,  no GPA.  Whats not to love and I have heard this from Art dealers.  I can put any price I want on a piece since it is "One of a kind".      

Have I sold something to a collector where I misrepresented it?  Am I on here pumping and dumping books?   

Edited October 26, 2017 by blazingbob

[blazingbob]

6 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

In 2011, I bought an 8.0 for 83k from HA in a fierce bidding war. Got the spouse (man she is great!) to agree to a 2nd on the homestead to buy it. TODAY, it is probably valued at 250k plus or minus.  Amazing,  but I can now pay off both mortgages with this book if I choose. This is real stuff. Real life. Will there be a bubble? Maybe a pullback but not a bubble. Will I sell it? My spouse says NO. She loves it more than me.

Well since I'm not afraid to give advice it would not be a bad idea to look at a prior purchase and look at possibly taking some money off the table.  Sell the 8.0 and downsize to a lower grade copy.  Pay off one or as much of the other as you can.  Take some of the profit and do something fun with it.  I live in my comic collection.  Would I be a lot "wealthier" on paper if I didn't sell it.  Yes,  but I wouldn't have my business or somewhere nice to live.  

[peewee22]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

Well since I'm not afraid to give advice it would not be a bad idea to look at a prior purchase and look at possibly taking some money off the table.  Sell the 8.0 and downsize to a lower grade copy.  Pay off one or as much of the other as you can.  Take some of the profit and do something fun with it.  I live in my comic collection.  Would I be a lot "wealthier" on paper if I didn't sell it.  Yes,  but I wouldn't have my business or somewhere nice to live.  

Good advice.  I mean, it is paper.

[peewee22]

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'm just a guy showing how crazy it is to think that tens of thousands of Chinese and Indians are going to pick up the slack between generations in the North American comic book market.  No need to bring up any Wall Street talk that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, especially since (1) I'm not the Gene Park from the book "The Big Short" (and he was one of the good guys in the book, anyway); (2) I never got any closer to a CDO or CDS than you or anyone else here ever did; (3) I was never on the "sell-side" in my entire career and thus never structured or sold any dubious products to anybody!   

What if one of your clients asked to invest a small portion of his/her portfolio in the comic market. He/she frees up 200 grand and says "buy the best" after you try and talk them out of it. What would you buy?

[Jordysnordy]

4 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Well since I'm not afraid to give advice it would not be a bad idea to look at a prior purchase and look at possibly taking some money off the table.  Sell the 8.0 and downsize to a lower grade copy.  Pay off one or as much of the other as you can.  Take some of the profit and do something fun with it.  I live in my comic collection.  Would I be a lot "wealthier" on paper if I didn't sell it.  Yes,  but I wouldn't have my business or somewhere nice to live.  

This is probably one of the main reasons why so many high grade copies have been up for sale.

[delekkerste]

28 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

1).  I never said you were the Gene Park from the Big short.

2).  Wall Street talk has nothing to do with the subject at hand?  You definitely have very selective memory.  You did write the below response on Sunday the 22nd.

Well, isn't both the entire stock market and comic book markets pretty much overvalued at these record high levels?  

" Just because something is at record highs does not necessarily mean it's overvalued.  But, in this case, yes, you are right. "

3).  You never shorted a stock?  You worked for a hedge fund that didn't take short portions.  Offset risk?  Buy puts?  Really?  I'm not on a Hedge fund forum so I have no idea what your firm bought and sold and to whom.  Since you only share opinions and no "advice" I have no idea what your current investment positions are as a Private investor.  You deal in the comic art market where there is no price guide,  no GPA.  Whats not to love and I have heard this from Art dealers.  I can put any price I want on a piece since it is "One of a kind".      

Have I sold something to a collector where I misrepresented it?  Am I on here pumping and dumping books?    

 

 

 

 

I don't understand how this somehow turned into a referendum on Wall Street, especially the bad behavior that led up to the financial crisis.  Because I said that both comics and stocks are overvalued?  I really don't see what any of that has to do with me, the valuation of stocks or comics, or the price of tea in China, frankly, any more than the Jason Ewert microtrimming scandal or any other unsavory episodes in comic dealing history have anything to do with you.  

And I have zero idea what shorting stocks or buying puts to offset risk has to do with either tanking the financial system or misleading people by selling them toxic assets.  They have about as much in common as apples and Aqua Net.  And, nobody has impugned your integrity as a dealer; the only one whose integrity seems to be in question is mine due to these continuing vagaries hinting at non-existent associations with elements of Wall Street that I never had any affiliation with or exposure to.    

Edited October 26, 2017 by delekkerste

[Get Marwood & I]

Here's a picture of Ditko the cat at work today:

 

He wasn't at all happy to be awoken:

 

And expressed significant disdain accordingly.

 

He doesn't own a copy of Amazing Fantasy 15.

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Marwood & I
But he does have a Black Cat mini series

[delekkerste]

9 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

What if one of your clients asked to invest a small portion of his/her portfolio in the comic market. He/she frees up 200 grand and says "buy the best" after you try and talk them out of it. What would you buy?

I don't have any clients.  Whatever it is you think I do because of Bob's bizarre caricature of me, I can tell you that it bears little resemblance to reality.  

In any case, if someone was determined to invest $200K in comic books, I would refer them to one of these guys:

 

[blazingbob]

All your friends in one place.  

I'm going back to work selling New Mutants #98's to strippers with buyback protection.

Edited October 26, 2017 by blazingbob

[yanksarod22]

52 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'm just a guy showing how crazy it is to think that tens of thousands of Chinese and Indians are going to pick up the slack between generations in the North American comic book market.  No need to bring up any Wall Street talk that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, especially since (1) I'm not the Gene Park from the book "The Big Short" (and he was one of the good guys in the book, anyway); (2) I never got any closer to a CDO or CDS than you or anyone else here ever did; (3) I was never on the "sell-side" in my entire career and thus never structured or sold any dubious products to anybody!   

No need to bring up the market....isn’t that all u have been talking about