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CGC Issue Resolved

Started by Spider-Dan,

724 posts in this topic

Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted
a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there or it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

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Gotham Kid

Gotham Kid

Posted
Posted

CT is different. It's there are or it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Indeed. Of the 2 cases, the CT is the less excusable.

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mysterio

mysterio

Posted
Posted
a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there are it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Would the CT location be disclosed in the notes so he could check it? I've never gotten notes on a CTed book so I don't know. It would seem that if they are going to give you a purple label you should get all the details laid out.

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JediTrix

JediTrix

Posted
Posted
some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

Part of the fee that is paid to CGC is to check for restoration. Premiums are paid for collectibles because of that service. If restoration is missed...yes, mistakes happen...then it is the responsibility of CGC to fix that mistake.

 

It's just like the Turtles #1 3rd printing that was in a "first printing" slab. A buyer paid the premium because he believed that that book was what the slab said it was. It was not, but that is not the fault of the buyer. It is CGC's fault, which they (reportedly) fixed.

 

This is what insurance is for.

 

Unfortunately, in this case, it can't be proven.

 

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

good point. but if they say they do not guarantee resto detec then doesn't that mean that a blue label might come back resto when technology or competence improves detection process? There might be a lot of blue label resto books from cgc early days of grading....

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JediTrix

JediTrix

Posted
Posted
What I've always failed to understand is how resubs result in different scores. Sure, grading is subjective... But isn't that why we pay CGC to give us the grade? They're supposed to be the authority, and in a sense the final word. Yet the same book can result in different grades upon different submissions?? I guess that's why I always hear "buy the book not the grade".

 

Now we can't even have cgc agree if a book is a restoration or not? Concerning to say the least.

 

And Dan, complete bummer. Two books too. As if one coming back restored wasn't bad enough!

 

A small bump or downgrade can easily happen - as you said, grading is subjective. What isn't is page quality and colour, yet those can vary widely as well on a re-sub. One would think that CGC would have a color-guide that all graders use, they compare the guide with the comic, and assign the PQ that matches. Simple, yes?

 

But no.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

 

I blame the new led lightbulbs for that.

 

All kidding aside, another good and concerning point.

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Kindle-migration

Kindle-migration

Posted
Posted
some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

whoa I missed that

sharp eyeball

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted
a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there are it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Would the CT location be disclosed in the notes so he could check it? I've never gotten notes on a CTed book so I don't know. It would seem that if they are going to give you a purple label you should get all the details laid out.

Keep in mind CGC "Certifies" comics. The 'grade' and 'restoration check' are just a part of that overall service, so you're not entitled to "details". Grader's notes can be purchased. But I wasn't even talking about that, written notations. I meant he needs to be shown, to be able to visually confirm exactly what they're seeing, and then confirm beyond any doubt that it is added color intended to restore.

 

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Spider-Dan

Spider-Dan

Posted
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Posted
Did you submit them still in original holders?

 

Out of holders, with labels?

 

Or was it a "naked" resub?

 

Both were "naked"

 

 

Would you mind disclosing the original grade dates on the two?

 

Avengers 1 - Grade Date: 02/07/2003

 

Journey into Mystery 83 - Grade Date: 09/14/2007

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
I'm shocked at all of these "it happens, resubs are risky" type responses. Talk about apathy. Isn't the fact that resubs are risky besides the freaking point?

 

Why? It's all a money play now.

 

If CGC graded books are such a crapshoot, isn't it rational to question WHY premiums are still paid?

 

It pays the money or it gets the hose again . :insane:

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