CGC Issue Resolved

[mysterio]

a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there are it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Would the CT location be disclosed in the notes so he could check it? I've never gotten notes on a CTed book so I don't know. It would seem that if they are going to give you a purple label you should get all the details laid out.

Keep in mind CGC "Certifies" comics. The 'grade' and 'restoration check' are just a part of that overall service, so you're not entitled to "details". Grader's notes can be purchased. But I wasn't even talking about that, written notations. I meant he needs to be shown, to be able to visually confirm exactly what they're seeing, and then confirm beyond doubt that's it is added color intended to restore.

 

I don't think I disagreed with anything you said, I was simply asking if the notes would supply the information that you were talking about. If they put the location of the CT in the notes that would, in effect, show him where it is so he could visually confirm it. It would seem to me that if they are going to certify any book as having CT that they ought to be able to tell you where it is. It shouldn't be a guess, and making the owner guess wouldn't inspire confidence that they aren't guessing. If they can't pinpoint it for the owner then they shouldn't give it a purple label.

[thirdgreenham]

This is why you don't buy books hoping to resub for higher grades.

 

I understand that the "re-sub game" has its ups and downs, but BOTH books have resto?? Even if it rarely happens, whats the odds of it happening to both books sent in?

 

Im wondering if they have new graders? Should I trust the new label, or the old label? Maybe the mistake was made today?

 

Just don't feel confident

Yes, they have new graders... the old ones keep quitting.

It has nothing to do with the graders. It's all about the resto checkers. The old guy must have missed the resto while he was getting liquored up on his lunch break. The new guy is obviously much more of a bookwormish, no-life guy who has nothing better to do than to spitefully pick out random submissions and label them "restored" just to get back at the society which mercilessly bullied him in his not-too-distant youth.

 

Now this I believe. (thumbs u

[GAMBIT]

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label).. When it happens is usually very minor color touch that some how slipped through the cracks, however the trimmed part is what scares me!.. that should never "slip" through! and id be irate if it did! (IMO the worse type of resto out there is trimmed books!)

 

[MrBedrock]

True enough, but I suspect that no amount of mistakes would be sufficient to unhinge the faithful.

 

Have at it, gents. It ain't my money.

True apathy (thumbs u

[LordRahl]

The trimmed one could be a false positive. I had a copy of Iron Man Sub Mariner 1 that I bought from the original owner several years ago. It came back 9.6 Trimmed. Now I knew for a fact that the book was not trimmed but it did have a funky cut. So I sent it back and it came back a 9.6 Blue. Especially with trimming, it can be tricky and no one can catch it 100% of the time. Other times, you can jump at shadows.

 

The CT baffles me though. That should have been caught the first time.

 

Either way, sorry that happened, expensive books to have it happen to. And 2 at the same time

[Spider-Dan]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

[LordRahl]

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label).. When it happens is usually very minor color touch that some how slipped through the cracks, however the trimmed part is what scares me!.. that should never "slip" through! and id be irate if it did! (IMO the worse type of resto out there is trimmed books!)

 

 

Actually that is the one that is far easier to "slip" through. Good trimming is extremely difficult to detect.

[JediTrix]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

Happened to me once before on a big money book.. I was pretty upset, but took the loss and re sold the book as is (Purple resto label)..

 

[kav]

a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there are it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Would the CT location be disclosed in the notes so he could check it? I've never gotten notes on a CTed book so I don't know. It would seem that if they are going to give you a purple label you should get all the details laid out.

Keep in mind CGC "Certifies" comics. The 'grade' and 'restoration check' are just a part of that overall service, so you're not entitled to "details". Grader's notes can be purchased. But I wasn't even talking about that, written notations. I meant he needs to be shown, to be able to visually confirm exactly what they're seeing, and then confirm beyond doubt that's it is added color intended to restore.

 

I don't think I disagreed with anything you said, I was simply asking if the notes would supply the information that you were talking about. If they put the location of the CT in the notes that would, in effect, show him where it is so he could visually confirm it. It would seem to me that if they are going to certify any book as having CT that they ought to be able to tell you where it is. It shouldn't be a guess, and making the owner guess wouldn't inspire confidence that they aren't guessing. If they can't pinpoint it for the owner then they shouldn't give it a purple label.

 

a $5 black light would end the guessing. would have also prevented the resub in the first place....

[kav]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

gosh and that would do a lot to make people respect them more....they do use the word 'guaranty' after all...

[Iceman399]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Ignore him...he will be on the HOS in a few days for scamming 2 guys on an AF 15.

[LordRahl]

 

True enough, but I suspect that no amount of mistakes would be sufficient to unhinge the faithful.

 

Have at it, gents. It ain't my money.

 

What would be your suggested alternative to the current system? Someone that catches resto 100% of the time isn't going to be a good answer as I don't think you would get anyone in the hobby that would be able to commit to that. Is there anyone here on the forum that would like to step up and tell us that he can catch resto 100% of the time? Show up those evil doers at CGC that are clearly hacks.

[Kindle-migration]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Wendy O Williams

[Gotham Kid]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Ignore him...he will be on the HOS in a few days for scamming 2 guys on an AF 15.

 

[MrBedrock]

Wendy O Williams

The answer to the question, "Who's you daddy?"

[Iceman399]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Ignore him...he will be on the HOS in a few days for scamming 2 guys on an AF 15.

 

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7439245#Post7439245

[batman_fan]

 

True enough, but I suspect that no amount of mistakes would be sufficient to unhinge the faithful.

 

Have at it, gents. It ain't my money.

 

What would be your suggested alternative to the current system? Someone that catches resto 100% of the time isn't going to be a good answer as I don't think you would get anyone in the hobby that would be able to commit to that. Is there anyone here on the forum that would like to step up and tell us that he can catch resto 100% of the time? Show up those evil doers at CGC that are clearly hacks.

 

My suggestion would be to do what virtually every other successful industry does, use it as a learning experience as part of your standard continuous improvement plan. I actually believe CGC does this at least to some degree.

[passion4comics]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

I find it really odd that the OP submitted two books and they both came back resto when they were graded so far apart. Either he's really unlucky or he is buying a lot of books and resubbing them. Then again the chain of custody would have to show that both of these books were or could not have been tampered with. Grading is subjective, but resto is quantitative. It's either there or it's not. I think there would be more of an issue if the book was subbed in its slab because submitted raw leaves that doubt of what happened between point A and B. I'm not saying that the OP did anything to the books, but it becomes a he-said she-said argument regardless of what the outcome was.

 

------

 

"Errors and omssions (E&O) is the insurance that covers your company, or you individually, in the event that a client holds you responsible for a service you provided, or failed to provide, that did not have the expected or promised results. For doctors, dentists, chiropractors, etc., it is often called malpractice insurance. For lawyers, accountants, architects or engineers, it may be called professional liability. Whatever you call it, it covers you for errors (or omissions) that you have made or that the client perceives you have made.

 

In short, E&O coverage provides protection for you in the event that an error or omission on your part has caused a financial loss for your client."

 

 

[mschmidt]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?