Just finished IC #6... <spoilers>

[Kevin Boyd]

The Killer's words, "Goodbye Sue" keep bothering me.

 

Everybody in the DCU called her Sue. She was a very well-known public figure, like Princess Di of comics, a commoner brought into a world of gods. I doubt the papparazzi that caused her death said "Goodbye Miss Spencer". It could be perceived that the killer knew Sue personally (which is very possible) or it could have been the killer's way of establishing intimacy between himself and his intended victim.

[Kevin Boyd]

This is driving me crazy! You don't know how hard it is not to click on that Spoiler Thread!

 

The spoiler thread was bogus, as Brain thought that Lois' shooting would take place in IC7. Foolkiller raised the same issue here in this thread.

[chrisco37]

I still don't like the Atom theory though. Why, as you (I think) pointed out earlier, would we be let into his head?

 

I've seen this misdirection used in a few prose stories... can't recall the exact ones... wherein the narrator is the perp.

 

I haven't been reading this series, but I may have to...

 

You should definitely pick it up. A great read!

 

I'm sure you're right about some books using the narrator-perp "technique". Only one I can think of off-hand is "Filth" by Irvine Welch. But, in that, you knew the narrator was a POS scumbag.

 

Atom's narration just seems too desperate (especially when he is trying to save Jean). Would he really be thinking the stuff he was at that time if he was the perp? Perhaps, but not likely.

 

Could be mis-direction by Meltzer, but kind of "cheap" to throw us off that way.

[Fan4Fan]

I still don't like the Atom theory though. Why, as you (I think) pointed out earlier, would we be let into his head?

 

I've seen this misdirection used in a few prose stories... can't recall the exact ones... wherein the narrator is the perp.

 

I haven't been reading this series, but I may have to...

 

You should definitely pick it up. A great read!

 

I'm sure you're right about some books using the narrator-perp "technique". Only one I can think of off-hand is "Filth" by Irvine Welch. But, in that, you knew the narrator was a POS scumbag.

 

Atom's narration just seems too desperate (especially when he is trying to save Jean). Would he really be thinking the stuff he was at that time if he was the perp? Perhaps, but not likely.

 

Could be mis-direction by Meltzer, but kind of "cheap" to throw us off that way.

 

Given the tortuous turns this book has been going through, I find a resolution in the penultimate chapter to be unlikely as well.

[chrisco37]

Given the tortuous turns this book has been going through, I find a resolution in the penultimate chapter to be unlikely as well.

 

You said it first! Now, we know who to hold responsible if that is the case.

[Zonker]

Are we discounting aman's revelation of a couple of days ago about the blue-eyed vs. green-eyed Jean Loring?

 

If we accept that clue as definitive, then we (likely) have a Jean Loring imposter as the killer. We also have the mysterious mother of Boomerang Jr. I joked a page or two ago about DC characters swapping genders as well as swapping identities, but setting that possibility aside, we're looking at a female perp.

 

Also a few pages ago, I misremembered that the original Reverse-Flash had the power to inhabit other bodies during the Trial of the Flash arc from long long ago. Instead, it was...

 

Iris Allen, time travelling from the future to look after her hubby Barry Allen while inhabiting a (male!) body as her 20th century host.

 

I don't really think it's her (what's the motive?), but consider that she might be Boomerang Jr.'s mom, perhaps with Barry as the father, either as himself, or as the host for Boomerang.

 

Hmm... that's a motive for involving Robin's dad: as an instrument of revenge on Boomerang, and to clear the way for the ascension of Jr.

 

As a time traveller, Iris also presumably has access to lots of information, such as Lois Lane's status as Superman's wife.

 

Still not sure why Iris would off Sue, though, unless it is somehow required for something to play out correctly in the future history we're not aware of.

[Kevin Boyd]

Except we didn't see Iris in the first 4 issues of IC.

 

The eye thing is bizarre. Could be the Top, but the same rules apply... we haven't seen the Top or heard his name mentioned in IC.

[Illiterati-migration]

Are we discounting aman's revelation of a couple of days ago about the blue-eyed vs. green-eyed Jean Loring?

 

If we accept that clue as definitive, then we have a Jean Loring imposter as the killer. We also have the mysterious mother of Boomerang Jr. I joked a page or two ago about DC characters swapping genders as well as swapping identities, but setting that possibility aside, we're looking at a female perp.

 

Also a few pages ago, I misremembered that the original Reverse-Flash had the power to inhabit other bodies during the Trial of the Flash arc from long long ago. Instead, it was...

 

Iris Allen, time travelling from the future to look after her hubby Barry Allen while inhabiting a (male!) body as her 20th century host.

 

I don't really think it's her (what's the motive?), but consider that she might be Boomerang Jr.'s mom, perhaps with Barry as the father, either as himself, or as the host for Boomerang.

 

Hmm... that's a motive for involving Robin's dad: as an instrument of revenge on Boomerang, and to clear the way for the ascension of Jr.

 

As a time traveller, Iris also presumably has access to lots of information, such as Lois Lane's status as Superman's wife.

 

Still not sure why Iris would off Sue, though, unless it is somehow required for something to play out correctly in the future history we're not aware of.

 

Zonk, your ideas make a scary amount of sense. (Though Kevin does make a good point that it would be exceptionally bad form for the killer to not have even made an APPEARANCE in the book thus far.)

 

But a time-traveller certainly would explain the notes and the weird "appearance" of the package in Jack Drake's kitchen.

 

And sure, it makes no sense that Iris would kill Sue, but there's always the chance that we are dealing with two separate sets of crimes...

 

 

That being said, Meltzer seems too intelligent to be pulling a hack-job like that. Doesn't he???

[Kevin Boyd]

But a time-traveller certainly would explain the notes and the weird "appearance" of the package in Jack Drake's kitchen.

 

What if it was a time traveller? The only one that has been featured prominently in IC so far is CHRONOS - from a time before he died.

 

You know, CHRONOS, arch-enemy of the ATOM.

[Illiterati-migration]

But a time-traveller certainly would explain the notes and the weird "appearance" of the package in Jack Drake's kitchen.

 

What if it was a time traveller? The only one that has been featured prominently in IC so far is CHRONOS - from a time before he died.

 

You know, CHRONOS, arch-enemy of the ATOM.

 

AND he was portrayed as a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person... just like Dr. Light! What if Dr. Light was just a device to set up a backstory for the appearance of a revamped Chronos??

[chrisco37]

Are we discounting aman's revelation of a couple of days ago about the blue-eyed vs. green-eyed Jean Loring?

 

When I was re-reading the series yesterday, I remembered that Aman had mentioned the eye-color thing. Only, I thought I remembered him talking about Ray! (Of course, I didn't jump on here to verify ) And I did pay attention to Ray's eye-color which, of ocurse, didn't change.

[Kevin Boyd]

Perhaps Chronos was mind-wiped, but has figured it out (he didn't seem like a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person when he died in the '90s Chronos series) and is out to get revenge against the Atom. As a time traveller who can enter and leave a room without setting off any alarms he could do quite a bit of damage AND pin all of the evidence on the Atom at the same time.

 

He could be the one who told Dr. Light about his personality shift when he shows up at the Injustice Society satellite in issue #1, and that has triggered Light's memories. Light could be helping Chronos achieve his objectives - could Jean Loring be a light construct?

 

The Jean Loring romance could be a ruse to lull his arch-foe into a sense of false security while he goes about planting evidence against him. What if the marks on her medulla weren't footprints at all - what if they were carefully placed indentations to make them look like footprints?

[chrisco37]

But a time-traveller certainly would explain the notes and the weird "appearance" of the package in Jack Drake's kitchen.

 

What if it was a time traveller? The only one that has been featured prominently in IC so far is CHRONOS - from a time before he died.

 

You know, CHRONOS, arch-enemy of the ATOM.

 

AND he was portrayed as a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person... just like Dr. Light! What if Dr. Light was just a device to set up a backstory for the appearance of a revamped Chronos??

 

There are alot of hints at knowing the future as well.

 

-Bad guys playing a game and one of them keeps saying what's going to happen next.

 

-Calculator asking ____ "why would you bet against someone who can see the future?"

 

Additionally, with all the jumping around in time that went on early in the series (9 seconds until now, 4 hours from now, now) it would fit right into the theme!

 

It certainly makes sense.

 

I think we've got it!!!!!

[chrisco37]

Perhaps Chronos was mind-wiped, but has figured it out (he didn't seem like a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person when he died in the '90s Chronos series) and is out to get revenge against the Atom. As a time traveller who can enter and leave a room without setting off any alarms he could do quite a bit of damage AND pin all of the evidence on the Atom at the same time.

 

He could be the one who told Dr. Light about his personality shift when he shows up at the Injustice Society satellite in issue #1, and that has triggered Light's memories. Light could be helping Chronos achieve his objectives - could Jean Loring be a light construct?

 

The Jean Loring romance could be a ruse to lull his arch-foe into a sense of false security while he goes about planting evidence against him. What if the marks on her medulla weren't footprints at all - what if they were carefully placed indentations to make them look like footprints?

 

And, being from the future, he would have access to technology that would enable him to do just that!!!!

[Kevin Boyd]

Here's a series that featured mind-switcheroos that we haven't mentioned yet...

 

 

The Silver Age was a fifth week event comic that came out in 2000, it consisted of 12 one-shots.

 

In it, a villain named Agammemno switches the minds and bodies of a 9 heroes and 9 villains.

 

Superman/Lex Luthor

Batman/Penguin

Aquaman/Black Manta

J'onn J'onzz/Dr.Light

Atom/Chronos

Flash/Mr. Element

Black Canary/Catwoman

Green Arrow/Felix Faust

Green Lantern/Sinestro

 

http://members.tripod.com/~MitchellBrown/xover/dc_silverage.html

 

If the JLA did the mind-wipe trick with those villains after the fact then Chronos was manipulated. (I don't think Zatanna was around then though...)

 

Note that the Silver Age included input from Mark Waid and Geoff Johns, among others.

[Illiterati-migration]

Perhaps Chronos was mind-wiped, but has figured it out (he didn't seem like a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person when he died in the '90s Chronos series) and is out to get revenge against the Atom. As a time traveller who can enter and leave a room without setting off any alarms he could do quite a bit of damage AND pin all of the evidence on the Atom at the same time.

 

He could be the one who told Dr. Light about his personality shift when he shows up at the Injustice Society satellite in issue #1, and that has triggered Light's memories. Light could be helping Chronos achieve his objectives - could Jean Loring be a light construct?

 

The Jean Loring romance could be a ruse to lull his arch-foe into a sense of false security while he goes about planting evidence against him. What if the marks on her medulla weren't footprints at all - what if they were carefully placed indentations to make them look like footprints?

 

Didn't we discuss the possibility of Jean Loring being a Dr. Light light construct? I think perhaps it is time we revisit that idea! That could certainly explain the change in eye color, as maybe Light just got it wrong...

 

Meltzer certainly WANTED us to think that Chronos was incapable of commiting the crime because he used the other villains to present him as a loony "B-list" type. ("He claims to be the Chronos from 37 seconds before his own death, or something..." very dismissive.) Generally, even among the villains, Chronos is ignored.

 

And the footprints... did anyone else think they appeared to be two DRAMATICALLY different sizes? Again, this may just be the art, but one appeared to be much larger than the other.

[500]

There is also something else that is bothering me about issue #1:

 

When sue opens her present for Ralph, the box opens to show a magnifying glass. And in one of the frames, you can see a reflection of a misshaped face in the glass. Anyone have any thoughts???

 

The reflection is of Ralph while he is still looking at it in the store window. You can see the frame with the reflection has the magnifying glass lying in the same padded case that is in the store, plus Ralph has about the same expression in both reflections.

 

Otherwise, has anyone put any thought into Hawkman and Zatanna's involvement in this. Hawkman has been very, "conservative" as he's been called with his views and judgements towards the treatment of villians. But Zatanna has been repeatedly shown to be the most powerful hero of all, and while she seems timid and innocent she's been perhaps more willing than anyone to alter the minds of people.

 

For a slight clarification, I don't think Atom is at the heart of this problem, though currently the evidence and benifits suit him the best.

[Deathlok]

This is supposedly the cover to IC#7 which shows the hero's costumes.

Costumes pictured are:

 

Batman

Flash

Wonder Woman

Superman

Atom

Green Arrow

Hawkman

Green Lantern

 

So which hero's costume is not pictured or represented, assuming a hero is involved?

 

[Illiterati-migration]

This is supposedly the cover to IC#7 which shows the hero's costumes.

Costumes pictured are:

 

Batman

Flash

Wonder Woman

Superman

Atom

Green Arrow

Hawkman

Green Lantern

 

So which hero's costume is not pictured or represented, assuming a hero is involved?

 

 

Martian Manhunter? Zatanna? Elongated Man? 'Mazing Man? Mary Marvel? I'm very skeptical about them at this point... after these last few years, the whole "hero gone bad" thing is played out.

 

It would have been pretty sweet to see Zatanna's stockings hanging up there, though.

[chrisco37]

Otherwise, has anyone put any thought into Hawkman and Zatanna's involvement in this. Hawkman has been very, "conservative" as he's been called with his views and judgements towards the treatment of villians.

 

I definitely gave Hawkman consideration, as he seemed to be the lead guy for the mind-wipe decision (Ollie even punched him over it). But, what would his motive be?

 

And, if the mind-wiping isn't the catalyst for this whole thing, aren't we wasting our time?