I don't understand people...

[Alberto1975]

Ok, I just wanted to ask the board something that's been bugging me the last couple of months about people.

I keep reading threads and posts about how they are not going to pick up any more Marvel Comics, or how they are not going to pick up a new series just because it's been relaunched. Give me a break! I cannot understand that attitude.

If you like comics, you like comics, and I don't know why people would give a damn about what number is in the cover. Does it really make a difference? If a comic is good, a comic is good.

Personally, if a comic needs to be relaunched because it's not doing very good in terms of sales, and relaunching can keep the character with an ongoing series, so be it, I am more than happy, because I keep being able to read the stories.

 

Am I the only one that feels that way? Last week, I picked up Iron Man, and this week, I picked up the new Captain America. Not because of number 1, but because I love the characters. I would be ok if people posted that they dropped Captain America because they don't like Brubaker, or they drop Iron Man because they can't stand the new art. But dropping it because it's been relaunched? Can someone try to at least explain to me the reasoning behind it?

 

I am just utterly confused by people's reasoning...

 

[Alberto1975]

Oh, and by the way, I think people are missing out. I thought Captain America #1 was a great read, and I am looking forward to this run.

Iron Man, on the other side, was just ok, the art, although cool for Iron Man, looks a little too cold in my opinion when drawing regular people. However, the story looks interesting, so I'll stick for a while...

[Kevin Boyd]

I think it has a lot to do with habit (being a completist) and tradition (a new series effectively severs new readers from the need to explore or collect previous numbers in the series) more than content.

 

Plus, people seem to really dislike the idea that someone might be trying to make money publishing these things and judge harshly any profit minded motives (which you have to admit relaunching a series is on the cash grab side of the fence).

[Alberto1975]

Oh, I absolutely agree that it's on the cash grab side of the fence. But hey, if that's going to give me another 6 months of a title, so be it, I'll take it.

Companies (except for probably DC) need sales for survival and they'll have to do whatever it takes to make that money. Variants and #1s don't bother me, if that allows companies to stay afloat, so be it.

While Marvel is making questionable moves (they are putting up way too many titles right now, a lot of which are [#@$%!!!]), and I think the variants are getting annoying, I personally think relaunches are fine, but that's just my opinion.

 

But then again, this ties up to the discussion we had of people collecting for the love of reading the comics vs people collecting for the sake of collecting vs people collecting to make money. I think they're all legit, and people can do what they want, obviously, but dropping a series, or boycotting a publisher due to the fact it's relaunched still sounds silly, specially if it's one that has quality, like this new Captain America. I will honestly be pissed if Captain America is cancelled in the middle of a good run just because people dropped it due to the fact it was a relaunch...

[Illiterati-migration]

For me it has to do with the quality of storytelling... and with each ret-con re-hash Frankenstory relaunch that Marvel puts out, I slip a little farther away from new books.

 

The characters aren't advancing and they aren't growing and they aren't changing in any IMPORTANT way, and that's why I don't like relaunches and Marvel in particular.

[Kevin Boyd]

The thing is Alberto, they don't need to relaunch with a new #1, and I think that is what bothers people.

 

Look at Wolverine #20. You put a fan favorite writer and artist team on a popular character (whose sales are slipping) you get an increase in sales. With Wolvie 20 sales went from ~60,000 copies to 116,000 copies. They didn't need to relaunch (sure the numbers were inflated because of the variants).

 

Look at DC... Superman and Batman have both benefitted from the arrival of Mr. Lee. They could have cancelled them and restarted, or launched a new title or mini-series. Instead, they chose to keep the numbering going (for a host of reasons) and Lee's Batman was the number one book for a year, and Superman has been in the top 3 for the last 7 months.

[Mushroom]

Look at DC... Superman and Batman have both benefitted from the arrival of Mr. Lee. They could have cancelled them and restarted, or launched a new title or mini-series. Instead, they chose to keep the numbering going (for a host of reasons) and Lee's Batman was the number one book for a year, and Superman has been in the top 3 for the last 7 months.

 

imagine the DC backlash if they tried to relaunch action and tec as number 1's.

[ninanina]

My reasons for no longer buying new (and I admit the numerous re-launches added to it) revolves around buying back-issues right now cheaper than buying new.

 

Well, if you don't mind buying moderns.

 

I've accumulated so much in my back issues collection over the last couple years I've got reading for about 5-6 years if not more. And most I've been able to get for about a buck a copy or less. Some for pennies. I'll go where the value is and buying a good read that came out 5 or 6 years ago for a dollar or less just makes more sense to me than paying what's being charged for new comics now.

 

Most recently I bought up hundreds Action, Superman, Adventures of Superman and Superman, Man of Steel. Got them for way less than cover and this will probably give me at least a year's reading as these issues spanned about 8 or 9 years.

 

Very happy reading "cheap" moderns, there's the value for me.

[WiseGuyX]

For me it has to do with the quality of storytelling... and with each ret-con re-hash Frankenstory relaunch that Marvel puts out, I slip a little farther away from new books.

 

The characters aren't advancing and they aren't growing and they aren't changing in any IMPORTANT way, and that's why I don't like relaunches and Marvel in particular.

 

I agree although these relauches has pushed me to try newer titles like "Y The Last man" and "The Gift" instead of just completely quiting currents all together. These new titles can be pretty entertaining at times.

 

I just love the older version of my child hood heroes and between modern age books and relaunches my Heroes has changed a bit to much for me. I still buy some of the newer titles like: Superman/Batman, AXM, IC, and a few others. The weird thing is I was completely against IC until I found out Batman wasn't in on it Now I'm hooked well I guess he could be the one doing it

[OldGuy]

The thing is Alberto, they don't need to relaunch with a new #1, and I think that is what bothers people.

 

Look at Wolverine #20. You put a fan favorite writer and artist team on a popular character (whose sales are slipping) you get an increase in sales. With Wolvie 20 sales went from ~60,000 copies to 116,000 copies. They didn't need to relaunch (sure the numbers were inflated because of the variants).

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

I would also add that if numbering "doesn't matter" then why do they number books at all? Or in Marvels case, why do they put the "current" and "old" numbers both on books? These are more rhetorical questions then anything else, I'm just wondering out loud.

[Zonker]

As you say, it depends on whether you're approaching it as a reader or a collector. As a reader, it should make no difference what format or which title or issue number is on the cover. But comics collectors are kind of like baseball enthusiasts. They like continuity. They like being able to say "I remember when..." and "I've been reading/collecting this title since #48." Kind of like the problem when MLB changes the rules or the number of games in a season: How do you compare Ruth's record to Maris' record to Bonds' record when they had a different number of games in a season? How do you compare historical performance of American League pitchers before and after the DH rule?

 

I think behind this is the desire to have some common threads consistent back to our childhoods.

 

I don't really blame the publishers for starting all these new number one's. But I also understand the way collectors feel: Heck, I'm still kind of personally ticked off that DC let Byrne talk them in to re-launching Superman with #1 in the mid-1980s.

[jbud73]

Look this board is pretty up there in the echelon of comicbook collectors and I'm not saying that because I frequent it. I thought that when I was a lurker too. The point being we've been through it before. The endless rehashes, the numerous covers and spinoffs and the deterioration of character continuity and overall appeal.

 

Look I agree there is a lot of good new stuff out there. But Marvel has been guilty of flooding the market to excess of their normal flooding lately and its hard to stick with a company that doesnt seem to stand behind its product in terms of quality.

 

I'm still a fairly young guy, but have been a collector for 15+ years and a reader since age 8. I tend to agree with Ninanina that if they are gonna throw everything out there and see what sticks, I'm gonna give it the 2 year wait and see approach and buy it then -caside from a few titles. To those that say what if its hot you'll may $$ for moderns. Usually after a year or a bit the hype and price has died down and sets, or TPBs can be had pretty cheaply. I opt for the comics first but have noticed my TPB buying increase in the past year.

 

My 2 cents....

[jimm94]

In many cases, this is simply an empty threat. It's easy to mouth off anonymously on the internet because no one is going to follow you to the comic store to see if you're telling the truth about dropping a title. In other words, threatening to drop a title is a form of complaining.

 

You're right, though, it doesn't make sense to drop a title just because of a new #1 issue assuming that you are otherwise enjoying the title overall. Punishing yourself as a form of protest is ridiculous.

 

What IS a legitimate gripe is the constantly revolving door of new creative teams and reboots that result in a lack of consistency in the stories. I'd agree that it's generally a good thing that Iron Man, Cap, etc... (or insert your favorite character here) have their own title rather than NOT having their own title, but I've grown weary of the lack of development the characters receive. It takes sooooo long to get through a single story arc in most moderns and there is often no consequence to what has gone before. Previous plot points or supporting characters get completely swept away in favor of a "bold new direction" that will totally change course (yet somehow seem exactly the same) in a year from now. How many times has a new volume of Captain America started based on a premise where he's not acting like his usual self because he's especially ticked off about something?

 

I used to have about 40 titles on my modern pull list, including minis, which was a completely absurd amount considering how few books I was making the time to read. I've got it down to a much more reasonable 12 books now, but I admit to having a hard time breaking free from characters I care a lot about even if I'm not nuts about the stories. I can't stop buying them each month. And that, my friends, is the definition of an OCD comic book collector.

[OldGuy]

In many cases, this is simply an empty threat. It's easy to mouth off anonymously on the internet because no one is going to follow you to the comic store to see if you're telling the truth about dropping a title. In other words, threatening to drop a title is a form of complaining.

 

You're right, though, it doesn't make sense to drop a title just because of a new #1 issue assuming that you are otherwise enjoying the title overall. Punishing yourself as a form of protest is ridiculous.

 

I said I wasn't going to jump on the Cap America bandwagon regardless of who is writing it and I managed to walk out of the LCS today without even looking past the cover of the book.

 

Some of us actually do what we say, on the internet and otherwise. It's really got nothing to do with "punishing myself". It's got more to do with letting my $ do the talking (talking to Marvel). There are many titles that I don't read because I'm not willing to spend the money to buy every title that's good. I am however very willing to drop a title if the publisher pissses me off. I simply take that money and spend it on another book I know I'll enjoy equally. I don't see that as punishing myself at all.

[jimm94]

In many cases, this is simply an empty threat. It's easy to mouth off anonymously on the internet because no one is going to follow you to the comic store to see if you're telling the truth about dropping a title. In other words, threatening to drop a title is a form of complaining.

 

You're right, though, it doesn't make sense to drop a title just because of a new #1 issue assuming that you are otherwise enjoying the title overall. Punishing yourself as a form of protest is ridiculous.

 

I said I wasn't going to jump on the Cap America bandwagon regardless of who is writing it and I managed to walk out of the LCS today without even looking past the cover of the book.

 

Some of us actually do what we say, on the internet and otherwise. It's really got nothing to do with "punishing myself". It's got more to do with letting my $ do the talking (talking to Marvel). There are many titles that I don't read because I'm not willing to spend the money to buy every title that's good. I am however very willing to drop a title if the publisher pissses me off. I simply take that money and spend it on another book I know I'll enjoy equally. I don't see that as punishing myself at all.

 

 

I wasn't referring to you at all, OG. I don't think your punishing yourself - there's other books you'd rather have for your money and your using a change of creative team as a good point to move on. Totally different thing in my mind. It's fine to vote with your dollars.

[drice6900]

I walked out without the latest Pulse yesterday, and any other Bendis title will not get my money either. Frickin, frackin, Avenger killin slop hack...

[THE_BEYONDER]

I buy 2 books right now: ASM & DOOM PATROL.

 

To be honest....I can't stand either one of them. I collect DP because I'm a Byrne completionist, but I don't even read them. I think the art looks terrible.

 

I buy ASM because I want to see if they can [#@$%!!!] up more than they have already.

 

I hate what they've done to Gwen...and yet...I still continue to buy it. It's like a train wreck I guess.

[Silver Surfer]

What Kevin said. I grew up loving Iron Man, Avengers, Thor and I just hate when the restart the books because it kills the history of the run as far as I'm concerned. Develop new characters, print 5 different variant covers for one issue for all I care but don't sacrifice a 400-500 issue run just for the sake of improved sales. Good writing, good art will eliminate the need to do this.

[OldGuy]

In many cases, this is simply an empty threat. It's easy to mouth off anonymously on the internet because no one is going to follow you to the comic store to see if you're telling the truth about dropping a title. In other words, threatening to drop a title is a form of complaining.

 

You're right, though, it doesn't make sense to drop a title just because of a new #1 issue assuming that you are otherwise enjoying the title overall. Punishing yourself as a form of protest is ridiculous.

 

I said I wasn't going to jump on the Cap America bandwagon regardless of who is writing it and I managed to walk out of the LCS today without even looking past the cover of the book.

 

Some of us actually do what we say, on the internet and otherwise. It's really got nothing to do with "punishing myself". It's got more to do with letting my $ do the talking (talking to Marvel). There are many titles that I don't read because I'm not willing to spend the money to buy every title that's good. I am however very willing to drop a title if the publisher pissses me off. I simply take that money and spend it on another book I know I'll enjoy equally. I don't see that as punishing myself at all.

 

 

I wasn't referring to you at all, OG. I don't think your punishing yourself - there's other books you'd rather have for your money and your using a change of creative team as a good point to move on. Totally different thing in my mind. It's fine to vote with your dollars.

 

[Alberto1975]

What IS a legitimate gripe is the constantly revolving door of new creative teams and reboots that result in a lack of consistency in the stories. I'd agree that it's generally a good thing that Iron Man, Cap, etc... (or insert your favorite character here) have their own title rather than NOT having their own title, but I've grown weary of the lack of development the characters receive. It takes sooooo long to get through a single story arc in most moderns and there is often no consequence to what has gone before. Previous plot points or supporting characters get completely swept away in favor of a "bold new direction" that will totally change course (yet somehow seem exactly the same) in a year from now. How many times has a new volume of Captain America started based on a premise where he's not acting like his usual self because he's especially ticked off about something?

 

This, I totally agree on. Some of the relaunches really don't make sense, and I have to admit I was very disappointed with the relaunches of Wolverine and Captain America the last few years, because those relaunches that promised a "bold new direction" ended up, in my opinion, being a bust. Sometimes changing something entirely for the sake of change, with nothing new really to bring to the table can hurt more than not. I am glad Wolverine has picked up (and like people said, without needing to do a relaunch with issue 20, which they perfectly could have done seeing how Marvel is acting these days), and this run of Captain America is more promising than the last relaunch.

 

Me, I'm finding myself more and more drawn to DC these days (I think JSA is great, Flash is awesome, Green Arrow is good) just because they seem to be maintaining a high quality (I love everything Geoff Johns is doing), but I still keep buying a lot of Marvels every month. My only hope is that some of these relaunches actually do work the way they're supposed to (I hope She-Hulk, which has been awesome, works better on relaunch). I think Marvel's scared of having to cancel some of their main staples, like Cap, and they try to do whatever they can. And I, for one, think it would be sad to not have a monthly Captain America title our there.