Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[Bomber-Bob]

I maintain this shrinkage wasn't intended, and given many presses before that don't tend to exhibit it, I think it will be avoided in the future if possible.

 

While I want to agree with you, I think this will still happen. Here's why:

'Normal' pressing, the good kind, with normal temperatures and little or no humidity added will not see these facejob results. I suspect the problem happens when trying to squeeze an already pressed high grade into a uber high grade, 9.4 to 9.6, etc. Trying to squeeze out that one little crease.

As long as guys like Doug are asking pressers to get me that bump no matter what, this may happen again. We just need some sanity and integrity back in the hobby.

[Dano]

Hey Dav, let me know if you're ever going to respond to my post some pages back -- I can bring it to top again if it helps you.

No, thank you. As much as I enjoy reading diverse opinions and debate, conversing with condescending spinmeisters is a guaranteed waste of time.

No interest whatsoever 'lil fellow, sorry.

 

This.

 

Dan

[originalisbest]

Hey Dav, let me know if you're ever going to respond to my post some pages back -- I can bring it to top again if it helps you.

No, thank you. As much as I enjoy reading diverse opinions and debate, conversing with condescending spinmeisters is a guaranteed waste of time.

No interest whatsoever 'lil fellow, sorry.

 

Not surprising that your answer to a logical fallacy of your own making is to run away from it. Don't worry, I'll bring it up again as appropriate, whenever you decide to trot out your "as published/virgin state of books" nonsense.

[originalisbest]

I maintain this shrinkage wasn't intended, and given many presses before that don't tend to exhibit it, I think it will be avoided in the future if possible.

 

While I want to agree with you, I think this will still happen. Here's why:

'Normal' pressing, the good kind, with normal temperatures and little or no humidity added will not see these facejob results. I suspect the problem happens when trying to squeeze an already pressed high grade into a uber high grade, 9.4 to 9.6, etc. Trying to squeeze out that one little crease.

As long as guys like Doug are asking pressers to get me that bump no matter what, this may happen again. We just need some sanity and integrity back in the hobby.

 

Perhaps your suspicions are correct, BUT it's a guess at best -- the only person(s) who know for certain are the ones who pressed it and what they did to get these there.

 

I've never personally pressed a book, so I wouldn't know how much/little/no humidity is part of the process for sure, but to say that with normal pressing, little to no humidity is the norm, I don't know if that's correct. Of course Joe or Matt could clear that up.

[comicwiz]

Hey Dav, let me know if you're ever going to respond to my post some pages back -- I can bring it to top again if it helps you.

No, thank you. As much as I enjoy reading diverse opinions and debate, conversing with condescending spinmeisters is a guaranteed waste of time.

No interest whatsoever 'lil fellow, sorry.

 

Not surprising that your answer to a logical fallacy of your own making is to run away from it. Don't worry, I'll bring it up again as appropriate, whenever you decide to trot out your "as published/virgin state of books" nonsense.

 

If your intention is to drop-by threads, cherry-pick people's comments out of context, and discredit people rather than challenge their opinions on an intellectual level, then I really don't understand why you would expect people to dignify any of your comments with a response.

[Jeffro.]

Hey Dav, let me know if you're ever going to respond to my post some pages back -- I can bring it to top again if it helps you.

No, thank you. As much as I enjoy reading diverse opinions and debate, conversing with condescending spinmeisters is a guaranteed waste of time.

No interest whatsoever 'lil fellow, sorry.

 

Not surprising that your answer to a logical fallacy of your own making is to run away from it. Don't worry, I'll bring it up again as appropriate, whenever you decide to trot out your "as published/virgin state of books" nonsense.

 

If your intention is to drop-by threads, cherry-pick people's comments out of context, and discredit people rather than challenge their opinions on an intellectual level, then I really don't understand why you would expect people to dignify any of your comments with a response.

 

You just did.

[r100comics]

I maintain this shrinkage wasn't intended, and given many presses before that don't tend to exhibit it, I think it will be avoided in the future if possible.

 

While I want to agree with you, I think this will still happen. Here's why:

'Normal' pressing, the good kind, with normal temperatures and little or no humidity added will not see these facejob results. I suspect the problem happens when trying to squeeze an already pressed high grade into a uber high grade, 9.4 to 9.6, etc. Trying to squeeze out that one little crease.

As long as guys like Doug are asking pressers to get me that bump no matter what, this may happen again. We just need some sanity and integrity back in the hobby.

 

Good post.

 

We've crossed the line here and I hope the market rejects these practices, though it would be better if CGC led the way by downgrading any blatant Costanza's they come across.

 

That J.I.M. #88 was one of the nicest books in my collection and seeing a copy that nice getting ruined is sickening.

 

[originalisbest]

Hey Dav, let me know if you're ever going to respond to my post some pages back -- I can bring it to top again if it helps you.

No, thank you. As much as I enjoy reading diverse opinions and debate, conversing with condescending spinmeisters is a guaranteed waste of time.

No interest whatsoever 'lil fellow, sorry.

 

Not surprising that your answer to a logical fallacy of your own making is to run away from it. Don't worry, I'll bring it up again as appropriate, whenever you decide to trot out your "as published/virgin state of books" nonsense.

 

If your intention is to drop-by threads, cherry-pick people's comments out of context, and discredit people rather than challenge their opinions on an intellectual level, then I really don't understand why you would expect people to dignify any of your comments with a response.

 

CW, it's awfully nice of you to speak for Davenport, but I think he's more of a drop-by in this thread than I have been. In any case, I think his reasoning is quite flawed with regard to a comic book's most desirable state, quoted him in full with no cherry-picking, rebutted with my own take, and asked him for a response, which twice now he's declined to offer (and I hardly expected him to, but had some hopes.) I suppose his non-answer will just have to suffice.

[originalisbest]

I maintain this shrinkage wasn't intended, and given many presses before that don't tend to exhibit it, I think it will be avoided in the future if possible.

 

While I want to agree with you, I think this will still happen. Here's why:

'Normal' pressing, the good kind, with normal temperatures and little or no humidity added will not see these facejob results. I suspect the problem happens when trying to squeeze an already pressed high grade into a uber high grade, 9.4 to 9.6, etc. Trying to squeeze out that one little crease.

As long as guys like Doug are asking pressers to get me that bump no matter what, this may happen again. We just need some sanity and integrity back in the hobby.

 

Good post.

 

We've crossed the line here and I hope the market rejects these practices, though it would be better if CGC led the way by downgrading any blatant Costanza's they come across.

 

 

That J.I.M. #88 was one of the nicest books in my collection and seeing a copy that nice getting ruined is sickening.

 

It is too bad -- though as the graders noted way earlier in the thread, they graded the books as they were in front of them, and nothing seemed amiss to color their grading. Since they don't/didn't have the benefit of before and after scans, I would question anyone's ability, without a "before" scan, or intimate personal knowledge of a book, to be able to conclusively say "ah-ha!" this is a shrinkjob.

 

Now I will grant you, if a group of say, like 50 books in a row all had this appearance, it would (should?) raise a question, but not sure that could/would happen in the grading room, I have no idea how it is set up.

[drbanner]

Life's too short to be bothered by any aspect of funnybooks in slabs.

We can tell!

[originalisbest]

Life's too short to be bothered by any aspect of funnybooks in slabs.

We can tell!

 

Yep! Really, no part of it bothers me, not collecting them, arguing over the merits of grading/pressing, what makes a cover classic or not, etc. Now some other folks... well.

[Mark 1]

If one of those books came to me to grade...I would immediately think trim job

 

I don't grade thousands of books each week like they do but I can't imagine the significant shrinkage on these books wouldn't cause some question.

 

As I posted earlier and others have stated...minor shrinking can occur normally but seeing this type of significant shrinkage is alarming and should be taken into consideration for the grade.

 

My .2 cents

[drbanner]

Life's too short to be bothered by any aspect of funnybooks in slabs.

We can tell!

Yep! Really, no part of it bothers me, not collecting them, arguing over the merits of grading/pressing, what makes a cover classic or not, etc. Now some other folks... well.

That's good to know, your proliferation of posts in defense of pressing over the last month (in this and the "When did Pressing become the norm?" thread) had us worried that you really are bothered by folks that don't like it, or think it damages books, or know that CGC pressing books themselves is an inherent Conflict-of-Interest. (thumbs u

[Silver Surfer]

Did anyone win anything in this auction?

[drbanner]

Did anyone win anything in this auction?

Doug?

[fantastic_four]

If one of those books came to me to grade...I would immediately think trim job

 

I don't grade thousands of books each week like they do but I can't imagine the significant shrinkage on these books wouldn't cause some question.

 

As I posted earlier and others have stated...minor shrinking can occur normally but seeing this type of significant shrinkage is alarming and should be taken into consideration for the grade.

 

Suspecting something and proving something are two different worlds entirely, but in your descriptions of determining what has happened to these books, I see no distinction between those two worlds.

 

Exactly how many sixteenths of an inch to you is "minor" shrinkage and how many sixteenths is "significant" shrinkage, and either way, how can you possibly distinguish that ANY shrinkage is caused by pressing as opposed to a book having been stored in an exceptionately humid attic in Florida?

[VintageComics]

If one of those books came to me to grade...I would immediately think trim job

 

My first instinct was to agree but I think the reason these books were not immediately labeled as trimmed is probably because the factory trim markings across the open edge of the cover will generally match those on the interior pages.

 

 

[originalisbest]

Life's too short to be bothered by any aspect of funnybooks in slabs.

We can tell!

Yep! Really, no part of it bothers me, not collecting them, arguing over the merits of grading/pressing, what makes a cover classic or not, etc. Now some other folks... well.

That's good to know, your proliferation of posts in defense of pressing over the last month (in this and the "When did Pressing become the norm?" thread) had us worried that you really are bothered by folks that don't like it, or think it damages books, or know that CGC pressing books themselves is an inherent Conflict-of-Interest. (thumbs u

 

Actually, I'm only bothered by folks who don't like it when they try to embolden their arguments circuitously, drawing their conclusions even as their questions are asked. I guess THAT aspect does bother me somewhat. Ah well, no one is perfect! "Petitio" is going to be my new nickname for Dav.

 

You state just above that some people think pressing damages books? Well, I would say that a bad pressing can, and so, probably most responsible pressers, if not trying to deceive (facejob) try not to cause damage. Still I don't think a proper pressing damages a book at all -- and as you noted earlier, you had nothing but hearts and flowers for a JIM that went from 9.4 to 9.6 and said further about it, that you like a properly pressed book just fine, have had books pressed, etc.

 

Not sure that one can prove a conflict-of-interest with CGC/CCS, though one is free to believe whatever they want, of course.

[VintageComics]

I just want to say that I was heckled openly and heavily by a few big name dealers (who are reading these threads) a few months ago when I suggested that Marvel covers shrink over time horizontally but not vertically (as an explanation for the overhang on the top and bottom edges).

 

Thank you phantom presser for vindicating me!

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

I maintain this shrinkage wasn't intended, and given many presses before that don't tend to exhibit it, I think it will be avoided in the future if possible.

 

While I want to agree with you, I think this will still happen. Here's why:

'Normal' pressing, the good kind, with normal temperatures and little or no humidity added will not see these facejob results. I suspect the problem happens when trying to squeeze an already pressed high grade into a uber high grade, 9.4 to 9.6, etc. Trying to squeeze out that one little crease.

As long as guys like Doug are asking pressers to get me that bump no matter what, this may happen again. We just need some sanity and integrity back in the hobby.

 

Perhaps your suspicions are correct, BUT it's a guess at best -- the only person(s) who know for certain are the ones who pressed it and what they did to get these there.

 

I've never personally pressed a book, so I wouldn't know how much/little/no humidity is part of the process for sure, but to say that with normal pressing, little to no humidity is the norm, I don't know if that's correct. Of course Joe or Matt could clear that up.

 

Regarding the pressing, I don't know anything about the details either.

Don't know the norm for humidity. My point was the press causing the facejobs was above and beyond a 'normal' press.