Answer from CGC.........

[drbanner]

Not replying to anyone in particular but let's see if I get a rational response not involving the great crash this will allegedly precipitate or the evil that is CGC. So Chris decides to leave CGC and open up his own business. Is there anything CGC can do about this? Do we know if he's going to be doing pressing only or is he opening up a restoration service like Matt Nelson's? Does anyone's opinion change if he's opening up a full fledged resto service? What if the details don't work out and he opens his service outside of the Certified Collectibles Group? How can CGC be held responsible for what an individual does, who happens to be no longer employed by them? It seems everyone is getting their panties in a bunch and blaming CGC over something that does not sound to me to be in CGC's control. Is CGC resposible for the resto services now offered by Matt Nelson and Matt Wilson? How one more resto service, currently available from Nelson and Wilson is going to kill the hobby is completely beyond me.

 

I don't think the problem is Chris opening his own restoration service, but rather, with CGC's parent company starting a restoration service, one which Chris just happens to be their main guy.

 

If Chris went out on his own without association with CGC (or, the "Certified Collectibles Group") then it wouldn't be any different than what Matt is doing.

 

I hope Chris reconsiders...

[rob_react]

 

Part of the reason is that pressing doesn't bother me at all. Not one iota. So I don't see, and have never seen, what the huge deal is. How it could morph into the 800 pound gorilla it's morphed into around here mystifies me.

 

What's the other part of the reason why you try to trivialize concerns over pressing?

 

The uproar over it. The relentless, neverending, march of the topic across these boards. At one point I listened even though I didn't agree. I really did. But after the millionth iteration I just lost patience. It has been blown so out of proportion on these boards that I'm completely unable to take part in this discussion rationally.

[Illiterati-migration]

Not replying to anyone in particular but let's see if I get a rational response not involving the great crash this will allegedly precipitate or the evil that is CGC. So Chris decides to leave CGC and open up his own business. Is there anything CGC can do about this? Do we know if he's going to be doing pressing only or is he opening up a restoration service like Matt Nelson's? Does anyone's opinion change if he's opening up a full fledged resto service? What if the details don't work out and he opens his service outside of the Certified Collectibles Group? How can CGC be held responsible for what an individual does, who happens to be no longer employed by them? It seems everyone is getting their panties in a bunch and blaming CGC over something that does not sound to me to be in CGC's control. Is CGC resposible for the resto services now offered by Matt Nelson and Matt Wilson? How one more resto service, currently available from Nelson and Wilson is going to kill the hobby is completely beyond me.

 

I don't think the problem is Chris opening his own restoration service, but rather, with CGC's parent company starting a restoration service, one which Chris just happens to be their main guy.

 

If Chris went out on his own without association with CGC (or, the "Certified Collectibles Group") then it wouldn't be any different than what Matt is doing.

 

I hope Chris reconsiders...

 

I hope CCG reconsiders.

[Red Hook]

And I also fully believe in this topic being a line-in-the-sand issue. If pressing receives official approval, then it won't be long before some other form of "accepted" manipulation of books will get through and eventually you will have no idea at all what the book with the blue label you are putting your cash down for has been through.

[supapimp]

i honestly hope that people will make such a big stink about this that the turnaround times will actually become accurate.

[LordRahl]

How is this any different from people having books pressed by Nelson or Wilson and submitting to CGC? CGC does not recognize pressing as resto so it's not like they are PLODing books pressed by Nelson or Wilson and won't be PLODing books done by Chris.

[rob_react]

Can you also recognize the fact that topics on this board tend to get blown way out of proportion? With most of you working in offices, I tend to think that the "800lb gorillas" started here are more out of boredom than of concern for the hobby. Discussions where all parties truly care about what they are discussing tend to consist of a search for truth, not controversy.

 

I won't name names , but one of the people most vocal on this pressing issue has been known to complain specifically about the lack of flame wars

[Illiterati-migration]

How is this any different from people having books pressed by Nelson or Wilson and submitting to CGC? CGC does not recognize pressing as resto so it's not like they are PLODing books pressed by Nelson or Wilson and won't be PLODing books done by Chris.

 

It's different because CGC is supposed to be an impartial, third-party grading entity.

[LordRahl]

So the uproar is over CCG possibly being affiliated with Chris's new resto service? I too hope that Chris reconsiders and just does it on his own. But I think that people on this board will still beetch and moan even if he does do it on his own and has no affiliation with CCG.

[The Brain]

A comic book is not a card or coin with only 2 sides and an edge. Comic books have to have pages counted

 

and if the page count is correct, is it the right page. We have seen lots of restored comic books that have

 

the centerfold of a different issue inserted just to make it look as if all the pages are there. It takes about 40

 

times the time to grade a comic compared to a coin or card.

 

 

There is also the trust factor. We spend a lot of effert proving that we truly expert, impartial and thrid party.

 

Collectors were sending in comic books hoping that we would not find hard-to-detect defects such as a very

 

tiny color touches,an advertising page that does not affect the story missing,replaced staples, a cover

 

on a different interior, a married page, foregin editions and so on. The collectors saw that we would not play

 

favorites. All comics are treated the same.

[rob_react]

I'll repeat this so I don't get my messages mixed.

 

I think it's a mistake for Chris to set up shop under the CCG umbrella. I think, with the hobby's sensitivity to any and all forms of restoration, the idea of having a working restorer whose checks are, at the end of the day, signed by the same guy who signs Steve's checks is a bad one.

[COI]

Part of the reason is that pressing doesn't bother me at all. Not one iota. So I don't see, and have never seen, what the huge deal is. How it could morph into the 800 pound gorilla it's morphed into around here mystifies me.

 

 

 

Hell, restoration itself doesn't even bother me... but I can sure recognize hypocrisy and a conflict of interests when I see one.

 

Can you also recognize the fact that topics on this board tend to get blown way out of proportion? With most of you working in offices, I tend to think that the "800lb gorillas" started here are more out of boredom than of concern for the hobby. Discussions where all parties truly care about what they are discussing tend to consist of a search for truth, not controversy.

 

Anyway, why does this "conflict of interest" upset you so much? Do you even collect comics?

 

Thanks for your usual "insightful" contributions, COI.

 

Ouch. Please don't insult my contributions. I try ever so hard.

 

I'm not trying to be "insightful". There's nothing I can add that hasn't been said in the 400,000 posts on this topic. I'm just wondering why some of the most vocal posters on this topic seem to be(by their own admissions) the same people who could "care less" if CGC went belly-up?

[LordRahl]

How does their parent company owning a resto service independent of CGC affect their impartial third party grading? Do you think that they will give Blue labels to restored books? I don't think there is a conflict of interest there. CGC will continue to give PLODs to restored books and Blue labels to pressed books, regardless of who did the work. The fact that they would recommend Chris as a restorer is no different then if you called them right now and asked who they'd recommend to restore your copy of Action #1 and they recommended Matt Nelson or Susan.

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

The entire comic market revolves around a structural grade . Taking a 9.2 and pressing it into a 9.8 is....for lack of a better word... cheating .

 

It's about

MONEY

, plain and simple.

 

If it really doesn't matter, then why don't sellers disclose pressing?

 

Oh...that's right. Because noone would pay insane multiples anymore.

 

Are you trying to explain something to me? Did you really just do a recap of the pressing issue for me? Are you kidding? Do you honestly think I had no idea what the arguments were? Half of the threads around here have been about pressing for ages now, do you seriously think none of that information had filtered down to me? I know all of the arguments AND I STILL DON'T CARE ABOUT PRESSING. I. Don't. Care.

 

Congratulations. Hope you don't mind if I do.

[FFB]

Now that Chris knows exactly what CGC can detect....he's going to open his own restoration service under the umbrella of CGC?

 

You can't possibly believe this is going to be okay with comic collectors. Dealers may think this a great idea now...but wait until the demand for CGC books plummet, and they have noone to sell to.

 

Hey Chris,

 

I am no happier about this announcement than you are, but just to take a different perspective on this thing -- how would pressing by Chris Friesen be any different than pressing by Matt Nelson? Matt already knows full well what kind of pressing won't get a purple label and he makes a nice chunk of coin exactly because he knows what he can do to a book and have it get through with a blue label. And it isn't a secret, because CGC has always said that they don't consider NDP to be restoration.

 

If anyone should be mad about this, it's Matt Nelson. Sounds like he's got some competition coming down the pike!

[rob_react]

Congratulations. Hope you don't mind if I do.

 

There's obviously no stopping you

[LordRahl]

I completely agree that the perception will be there and hope that Chris does this independently of CCG. But like I said earlier, I can guarantee that people will still throw a hissy fit if Chris opens a resto service, mostly because these same people pronounce the demise of the hobby brought about by something that CGC does every time CGC does anything, ala Wizard First.

[Illiterati-migration]

Part of the reason is that pressing doesn't bother me at all. Not one iota. So I don't see, and have never seen, what the huge deal is. How it could morph into the 800 pound gorilla it's morphed into around here mystifies me.

 

 

 

Hell, restoration itself doesn't even bother me... but I can sure recognize hypocrisy and a conflict of interests when I see one.

 

Can you also recognize the fact that topics on this board tend to get blown way out of proportion? With most of you working in offices, I tend to think that the "800lb gorillas" started here are more out of boredom than of concern for the hobby. Discussions where all parties truly care about what they are discussing tend to consist of a search for truth, not controversy.

 

Anyway, why does this "conflict of interest" upset you so much? Do you even collect comics?

 

Thanks for your usual "insightful" contributions, COI.

 

Ouch. Please don't insult my contributions. I try ever so hard.

 

I'm not trying to be "insightful".

 

I was being sarcastic. Thus the use of quotation marks.

[jbud73]

Ok, I had some lunch and thought about the implications of this from a collector's point of view.

 

Darth you are correct Steve's post did not confirm anything, if anything it just hinted and skewed at things - as I predicted it would. Steve said that an official statement would follow when the details were worked out - again as I predicted it would

 

I still think that a collector needs to take the blinders off though and consider what we do know.

 

Chris is leaving the pre-eminent grading company and relinquishing is position as its resto expert. I have to think that in any career move with someone in possession of expertise at his level, financial reasons come into play. So I ask myself why would he think that opening his own resto company was more lucrative now than say 4 years ago.

 

I think, is it because restored books are commanding a greater premium in the marketplace and therefore more opportunity exists to create revenue form restoration services. Not sure I am swayed by that arguement. I think that its more likely that NDP and other forms of ALTERATION (I use this word so as to not get into the is it, or is not arguement) have increased in demand therefore allowing for the introduction of greater revenue accumulation for someone with his skills. I am not saying its the only reason, but I bet its a strong indicator.

 

Now for CGG - they would obviously not want to see Chris leave the corporation. However, why not seize upon this opportunity to increase their revenue streams. As previously stated by Bob the business model is there.

 

Lets look at possible ramifications. If Chris is backed buy the Collector's Group I will bet the business model they come up with has as its basis a much more volume oriented slant than business done by Matt, or Susan. If this is the case they would need faster production and marketing strategies to allow for the volume model to success. If NDP is at the core of this then the ramifications for the graded collectibles market are interesting - notice I don't say good, or bad just interesting.

 

Lets look at dealer, such as Mr. Storms - why is he vehemently opposed to this? Well I would bet that if the model I discuss is enacted the HG dealers of slabbed books would feel the greatest pinch as census number swell and the rarity of books becomes lessened. All those auctions that say top census, will be qualified as top census 1 of 100, instead of 1 of 5.

 

What about the collector of HG slabs? Depending on your point of view on NDP - undisclosed that is, the outcome is dubious. The end of 10X and greater multipliers for HG slabs might actually be a good thing. Of course as long as the purchasing public assumes NDP and is ok with it. Or put another way the utility of NDP is offset by the lack of multiple of guide paid to obtain it.

 

In the end the creation of a CCG splinter, high volume based, ALTERATION service, might bring cost sanity to the HG world. From CGC's perspective since they are not the direct beneficiary of the huge multiples for after slabbing sales this may make business sense. Maybe they realize that the slabbed comics bubble is about to crest. So if the hype is gonna die down anyway, might as well inact a business venture that might hasten its downturn, but NOT hurt, or even help shore up your bottom line.

 

As for what the BSDs think - really haven't thought much about that since I was 4 or so and started thinking for myself, though I do wonder what the reaction to a few more ASM #1's in 9.8 would be.

 

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves - comments always appreciated.

[LordRahl]

Please refrain from bringing rational arguments to this discussion, as they spoil the mood of Armageddon brought about by CGC yet again.