Insane press and flip Avengers 1.

[drbanner]

A big thanks to the OP for pointing out this practice.

 

From a previous thread (see link below), it looks like the seller was a board member at one time.

 

Linky

 

So he was shilling his auctions too?

[gaz973]

Cal, racerx who sold the Avengers 1 8.5 has verified that it is the same book.

 

Yes I did see that post by Racer X, but did the Seller tell the truth? That Seller, if admitting so, would be... get my drift?

 

But you're right. If racer X says it is, as per HIS verification, then I gotta go along with that.

 

 

Yes I got an email verification from seller. But I just looked at the 2 book scans closely again, and now I do see what others like spider were seeing all along - clearly the same book. Even that big chip at Loki's neck is visible in the bc scan of the 9.2. The defects and staples lined up, so the new fold at the staples places most of the spine defects right on the spine - much less noticeable than on the fc or bc.

 

Again, I have no issue with this practice (respect to those that disagree), just stunned that simply the movement of the defects could have resulted in such a bump - maybe a 9.0 would have caused less of a stir, but all the way to a 9.2??

It was already overgraded as an 8.5.

[gaz973]

I personally consider pressing to be restoration. This kind of practice though is actually making a comic look worse to get a grade bump so I'm not sure what category to put it in.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I personally consider pressing to be restoration. This kind of practice though is actually making a comic look worse to get a grade bump so I'm not sure what category to put it in.

 

Destruction.

[gaz973]

I personally consider pressing to be restoration. This kind of practice though is actually making a comic look worse to get a grade bump so I'm not sure what category to put it in.

 

Destruction.

Yeah, I think that fits the bill for me. (thumbs u

[Green]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

[Mr.Diggler]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

[drbanner]

Thread started in General, thanks to spiderphill for uncovering this travesty to our hobby.

[etanick]

I wonder how many people are sifting through their slabs looking for spine shifts now

 

the cynical side of me says "how many people rushed to their keys to see if they can do the same thing to their books to achieve the same result" because that top big azz number is all that matter.

[batman_fan]

Even more reason why back cover scans are important for buying.

[Gotham Kid]

I personally consider pressing to be restoration. This kind of practice though is actually making a comic look worse to get a grade bump so I'm not sure what category to put it in.

 

Destruction.

Yeah, I think that fits the bill for me. (thumbs u

 

+1

[DrWatson]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

[Gotham Kid]

 

Linky

 

Yet another example ?

 

[Mr.Diggler]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

Manipulation is manipulation, IMO.

[batman_fan]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

 

I dont know, to me it's completely different.

 

Like i said before, i dont mind pressing or buying pressed books. If a press takers away some faults that time and wear have put on a book and restore it to what it looked like years earlier, i dont have a problem with that.

 

Thats not whats happening here though. That Avengers 1 was restored to what it used to look like. It was completely changed and now is a different book with a different wrap to apparently successfully fool CGC into giving it a higher grade.

 

CGC has a lot of explaining to do on this imo. I dont care where the faults are, if its the spine or back cover. If a book has enough faults to make it a "weak" 8.5, no amount of shifting those faults around should bump it to a 9.2

 

 

Sorry in advance, I tried to not open this thread as I stopped reading these threads years ago. I basically made a conscious choice after Ewertgate, either give up collecting or understand that there are A LOT of things possible in a Blue slab.

 

Clean and Press, Yep, Clean other things (Yep), disassemble to book (Yep, granted you have to be very talented, but when we are talking tens of thousands people tend to acquire talent), Shift the spine (Yep) and so on.

 

To those that feel that pressing is ok but this is not ok Sorry I respect you but

 

Look when I buy a slab I know all of that is going on, I know Jason Ewert is still submitted books to CGC (granted through 3rd parties - oh the irony) and I also assume that there are things that are going on that I don't know about or haven't even dreamed of yet.

 

You want rules? Guess what there are no rules, and that really is the only rule. You see when the dollars are this big there are people in comics that have a singular focus. "Do whatever you can to increase the technical grade of a book and still retain the Blue Label." FULL STOP, that is IT.

 

The page flare and miscut from the spine and wrap adjustment probably doesn't come into play until 9.6 so add another manipulation technique to the pile. As someone posted there is no out of bounds, just edges of paper bound in wondrous plastic for your viewing pleasure.

 

well said

[ChasingKingKirby]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

Manipulation is manipulation, IMO.

 

Manipulation to put something back to a state resembling its original state is one thing, but this is another category all together in my humble opinion...

 

This is taking the state of the book from when it was printed and altering it to hide defects.

[DrWatson]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

Manipulation is manipulation, IMO.

 

Manipulation to put something back to a state resembling its original state is one thing, but this is another category all together in my humble opinion...

 

This is taking the state of the book from when it was printed and altering it to hide defects.

Exactly.

[DrWatson]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

Manipulation is manipulation, IMO.

You and oakman should get matching tattoos. <3

[Mr.Diggler]

Welcome to the hobby pressing has created. I hate to say it, and noone should take this personally but IMO if you (myself included) buy, sell or support pressed books you have been a part of creating a market that accepts this.

Absolutely.

No, not absolutely. There's pressing and then there's stupidity. Stupidity is what CGC is encouraging, fostering, and displaying in allowing something like that in a blue label. The CGC is the one creating a marketplace where that type of creative manipulation is acceptable.

Manipulation is manipulation, IMO.

You and oakman should get matching tattoos. <3

[Spiderphill]

Linky

 

Yet another example ?

very possible.