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Insane press and flip Avengers 1.

Started by Spiderphill,

491 posts in this topic

drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
It might be interesting to put a link to this thread in CG...

 

:whistle:

 

...not that I'm that sort of bomb-thrower.

 

It definitely belongs in general...this book has been ruined, it's incredibly over-graded, and if the telltale sign of all these examples shared in this thread are those ugle fanned pages, it gives folks something to look out for. So yes, it has tremendous value in general. (thumbs u

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted
But I don't think it's quite accurate to say that all the seller did was get the book pressed. Relocating the spine on a book goes beyond conventional pressing.

 

Not getting into the argument of whether it's ethical or not, there is little difference mechanically between removing a spine roll and creating one.

 

 

Roy, your previous comment states ...

'I'm really surprised to see this too but then as Grails said, the seller really didn't do anything wrong except have the book pressed. Anyone else had the opportunity to do the same.'

 

You said the Seller didn't do anything wrong, that is introducing the ethical aspects of this. Now you are saying you don't want to get in to the argument of ethics. Okay, than why bring it up ?

 

Wrong was probably the wrong choice of words. What I meant was that he had the book pressed. He didn't do anything that CGC would not allow.

 

Better?

 

 

:whee: I think I just got Roy to admit he misspoke. :devil:

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Mr.Diggler

Mr.Diggler

Posted
Posted
It might be interesting to put a link to this thread in CG...

 

:whistle:

 

...not that I'm that sort of bomb-thrower.

 

It definitely belongs in general...this book has been ruined, it's incredibly over-graded, and if the telltale sign of all these examples shared in this thread are those ugle fanned pages, it gives folks something to look out for. So yes, it has tremendous value in general. (thumbs u

But, does general have any value?

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted
It might be interesting to put a link to this thread in CG...

 

:whistle:

 

...not that I'm that sort of bomb-thrower.

 

It definitely belongs in general...this book has been ruined, it's incredibly over-graded, and if the telltale sign of all these examples shared in this thread are those ugle fanned pages, it gives folks something to look out for. So yes, it has tremendous value in general. (thumbs u

But, does general have any value?

 

I think this thread belongs in ASK CGC. Seriously, CGC needs to make a statement.

Borock would have been all into this thread.

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Mr.Diggler

Mr.Diggler

Posted
Posted
It might be interesting to put a link to this thread in CG...

 

:whistle:

 

...not that I'm that sort of bomb-thrower.

 

It definitely belongs in general...this book has been ruined, it's incredibly over-graded, and if the telltale sign of all these examples shared in this thread are those ugle fanned pages, it gives folks something to look out for. So yes, it has tremendous value in general. (thumbs u

But, does general have any value?

 

I think this thread belongs in ASK CGC. Seriously, CGC needs to make a statement.

Indeed.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

This.

I don't agree with that, but I do that this is a type or level of pressing where I don't see a benefit. It's not conservative. It doesn't prevent a defect from becoming worse over time. The book doesn't benefit esthetically. The book was actually damaged to achieve a higher grade.

 

I know the CGC give grades on based on technical aspects, as opposed to eye appeal; but technically, this book looks like mess. The CGC dropped the ball on this one. This ranks right up there with the Action #1 2.5 that was covered with pulp eating mold. :sick:

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Mr.Diggler

Mr.Diggler

Posted
Posted
Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

This.

I don't agree with that, but I do that this is a type or level of pressing where I don't see a benefit. It's not conservative. It doesn't prevent a defect from becoming worse over time. The book doesn't benefit esthetically. The book was actually damaged to achieve a higher grade.

 

I know the CGC give grades on based on technical aspects, as opposed to eye appeal; but technically, this book looks like mess. The CGC dropped the ball on this one. This ranks right up there with the Action #1 2.5 that was covered with pulp eating mold. :sick:

Are you saying that the CGC screwed the pooch on this one?

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joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

This.

I don't agree with that, but I do that this is a type or level of pressing where I don't see a benefit. It's not conservative. It doesn't prevent a defect from becoming worse over time. The book doesn't benefit esthetically. The book was actually damaged to achieve a higher grade.

 

I know the CGC give grades on based on technical aspects, as opposed to eye appeal; but technically, this book looks like mess. The CGC dropped the ball on this one. This ranks right up there with the Action #1 2.5 that was covered with pulp eating mold. :sick:

Are you saying that the CGC screwed the pooch on this one?

 

Did the defects go away? No. They are still present only on the back of the book.

 

Does the book looker nicer? No, it now has a spine roll that was purposely introduced.

 

I press for a living and have a hard time justifying what was done to this book.

 

I would say the ball that was dropped is still rolling around on the floor.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

This.

I don't agree with that, but I do that this is a type or level of pressing where I don't see a benefit. It's not conservative. It doesn't prevent a defect from becoming worse over time. The book doesn't benefit esthetically. The book was actually damaged to achieve a higher grade.

 

I know the CGC give grades on based on technical aspects, as opposed to eye appeal; but technically, this book looks like mess. The CGC dropped the ball on this one. This ranks right up there with the Action #1 2.5 that was covered with pulp eating mold. :sick:

Are you saying that the CGC screwed the pooch on this one?

Screwed the pooch, balled up, blew, bobbled, blundered, botched, bumbled, bungled, confused, dropped the ball, erred, floundered, flubbed, flummoxed, fouled up, fubar, fumbled, gummed up, loused up, messed up, misjudged, screwed up, slipped up, snafu, stumbled, and tarfu.

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Spiderphill

Spiderphill

Posted
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Posted
CGC has stated since Steve B's time that poor pressing jobs that damage books will be punished by lower numerical grades. They should step up, be consistent with this philosophy, and also downgrade pressed books that have interior pages extruded to the ridiculous degree of the Avengers #1 , or have impacted staples made worse during the pressing process.

 

I would agree with this 100%.

 

+1

 

But Steve B isn't the honcho at CGC anymore. How about Haspel ... Nope gone too. Maybe Matt Nelson will take an aggressive stance against this technique until he adds it to his repertoire. meh

 

You're assuming Matt Nelson doesn't know this technique.

 

Makes me wonder how long this technique has been used and how many people know about it and use it.

good question
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Spiderphill

Spiderphill

Posted
  • Author
Posted
But I don't think it's quite accurate to say that all the seller did was get the book pressed. Relocating the spine on a book goes beyond conventional pressing.

 

Not getting into the argument of whether it's ethical or not, there is little difference mechanically between removing a spine roll and creating one.

 

 

Roy, your previous comment states ...

'I'm really surprised to see this too but then as Grails said, the seller really didn't do anything wrong except have the book pressed. Anyone else had the opportunity to do the same.'

 

You said the Seller didn't do anything wrong, that is introducing the ethical aspects of this. Now you are saying you don't want to get in to the argument of ethics. Okay, than why bring it up ?

bob, this spine shift is disturbing to me and I support pressing. At the end of the day I'm more upset with cgc because their rules have enabled this. It's sad we all have to deal with this really but I think this is far as it goes with pressing......
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gadzukes

gadzukes

Posted
Posted
This reminds me of the Ewert Micro trimming scandal of years ago. Jason Ewert was slipping trimmed books past CGC. Steve Borock took an active roll and eventually Ewert was banned from using CGC's services. CGC also offered to inspect, free of charge, any CGC books sold by Ewert.

Any old timers out there remember all this ?!?

 

Yes, it was a black eye for grading and the hobby. This feels like more of the same.

 

I thought trimming was fairly easy to spot. I mean, how micro is micro trimming?

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Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted
Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

This.

I don't agree with that, but I do that this is a type or level of pressing where I don't see a benefit. It's not conservative. It doesn't prevent a defect from becoming worse over time. The book doesn't benefit esthetically. The book was actually damaged to achieve a higher grade.

 

I know the CGC give grades on based on technical aspects, as opposed to eye appeal; but technically, this book looks like mess. The CGC dropped the ball on this one. This ranks right up there with the Action #1 2.5 that was covered with pulp eating mold. :sick:

 

What surprises me is that moving defects to along the spine and onto the back cover could improve the grade. I always assumed the front and back covers had equal or near equal weight. I have certainly seen books where it is obvious that the back cover pulled the grade down.

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Spiderphill

Spiderphill

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This reminds me of the Ewert Micro trimming scandal of years ago. Jason Ewert was slipping trimmed books past CGC. Steve Borock took an active roll and eventually Ewert was banned from using CGC's services. CGC also offered to inspect, free of charge, any CGC books sold by Ewert.

Any old timers out there remember all this ?!?

 

Yes, it was a black eye for grading and the hobby. This feels like more of the same.

 

I thought trimming was fairly easy to spot. I mean, how micro is micro trimming?

micro trimming 1/16th of an inch with a laser isn't easy to spot. Trimming is the hardest thing to spot and I'm sure cgc has deemed trimmed books universal many times after the ewert incident.
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Spiderphill

Spiderphill

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Does anyone remember this press and shift?!?!

 

SC 22 from an 8.5 to 9.2. Same seller, same grade bump.

 

SC 22 IHOP special

 

 

 

......Mem'ries light the corners of my mind. Misty watercolor MEEEEMMMMRIES.....

 

With the SC22, though, he said he didn't actually press the book :eek:

yea, it's stuck in your head for sure. Especially when you jacked up that asm over "potential". I don't blame you I wouldn't want to go through that upgrade again ;)
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