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Insane press and flip Avengers 1.

Started by Spiderphill,

491 posts in this topic

BEAUMONTS

BEAUMONTS

Posted
Posted
All because the spine stress was able to be shifted... 8.5 to a 9.2 insane. Boggles my mind that someone can see spine stress and realize it can be shifted so it's not visible.

 

8.5

 

 

9.2

 

Looking at the 8.5, looks like its lucky to be an 8.5.

It would be interesting to know who did the pressing, any guess's? (shrug)

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
I'm amazed by the concept that CGC grade more leniently for back cover damage than front cover damage. They are supposed to be grading based on the amount of wear and damage to a book, moving the damage around a bit shouldn't raise the grade at all.

That's what I was trying to say earlier. If you can "hide" a defect simply by moving it to the back cover that implies that The CGC is only grading the front cover.

 

I keep looking at the scans of the Captain America 1, and I'm baffled...is the white line that was previously on the front cover, now on the edge of the spine? or is it on the back and I'm not looking in the right place?

It almost looks like the vertical wear that shows in the 4.5 was the original spine. It looks like a spine roll was corrected, putting the vertical wear squarely along the edge of the spine. That's my best guess from scans. The 6.0 doesn't have the underhanging front cover that we were looking at in the now-9.2 Avengers 1 at the beginning of the thread.
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MasterChief

MasterChief

Posted
Posted
All because the spine stress was able to be shifted... 8.5 to a 9.2 insane. Boggles my mind that someone can see spine stress and realize it can be shifted so it's not visible.

 

8.5

 

9.2

 

Looking at the 8.5, looks like its lucky to be an 8.5.

 

That's the Saginaw copy. Originally brought to market by Sparkle City Comics in 2011.

 

Avengers #1 CGC 8.5 OW/White

 

 

AV-1_Saginaw_FC_zps5cc36572.jpg

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Spiderphill

Spiderphill

Posted
  • Author
Posted
All because the spine stress was able to be shifted... 8.5 to a 9.2 insane. Boggles my mind that someone can see spine stress and realize it can be shifted so it's not visible.

 

8.5

 

 

9.2

 

Looking at the 8.5, looks like its lucky to be an 8.5.

It would be interesting to know who did the pressing, any guess's? (shrug)

idk
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Guest Grails

Guest Grails

Posted
Posted

I don't get all the outrage. The only thing I have a problem with is that the work was not disclosed. As long as there is no disassembly involved, its just another form of pressing. My opinion mirrors most here that it does look like but we all know there are label chasers that will pick these up. As far as the grade bump, there is nothing uncommon about it. As far as what CGC graded it, I believe they dropped the ball on it. That chip and all the spine ticks still exist on the book. If I had the knowledge and equipment I would do the same thing along with full disclosure of the work. Providing for the family is more important than funny books.

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jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

 

I dont know, to me it's completely different.

 

Like i said before, i dont mind pressing or buying pressed books. If a press takers away some faults that time and wear have put on a book and restore it to what it looked like years earlier, i dont have a problem with that.

 

Thats not whats happening here though. That Avengers 1 was restored to what it used to look like. It was completely changed and now is a different book with a different wrap to apparently successfully fool CGC into giving it a higher grade.

 

CGC has a lot of explaining to do on this imo. I dont care where the faults are, if its the spine or back cover. If a book has enough faults to make it a "weak" 8.5, no amount of shifting those faults around should bump it to a 9.2 :preach:

 

 

Sorry in advance, I tried to not open this thread as I stopped reading these threads years ago. I basically made a conscious choice after Ewertgate, either give up collecting or understand that there are A LOT of things possible in a Blue slab.

 

Clean and Press, Yep, Clean other things (Yep), disassemble to book (Yep, granted you have to be very talented, but when we are talking tens of thousands people tend to acquire talent), Shift the spine (Yep) and so on.

 

To those that feel that pressing is ok but this is not ok lollollol:roflmao: Sorry I respect you but :facepalm:

 

Look when I buy a slab I know all of that is going on, I know Jason Ewert is still submitted books to CGC (granted through 3rd parties - oh the irony) and I also assume that there are things that are going on that I don't know about or haven't even dreamed of yet.

 

You want rules? Guess what there are no rules, and that really is the only rule. You see when the dollars are this big there are people in comics that have a singular focus. "Do whatever you can to increase the technical grade of a book and still retain the Blue Label." FULL STOP, that is IT.

 

The page flare and miscut from the spine and wrap adjustment probably doesn't come into play until 9.6 so add another manipulation technique to the pile. As someone posted there is no out of bounds, just edges of paper bound in wondrous plastic for your viewing pleasure.

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
I don't get all the outrage. .

 

Blue labels books are supposed to be unrestored. That's meant less and less over time but when you are moving the effing spine you aren't even 'restoring' something to its original condition, you are flat out 'altering' it.

 

Not to mention the whole uneven playing field thing where one guy here is obviously making a freaking killing at the expense of those who don't know better.

 

Not to mention the fact that this entire hobby feels like a freaking tainted cesspool and has for some time.

 

Melodramatic, I know, but you need 2 doctorates in all the various scam techniques if you want to collect funnybooks these days :censored:

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jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
CGC has stated since Steve B's time that poor pressing jobs that damage books will be punished by lower numerical grades. They should step up, be consistent with this philosophy, and also downgrade pressed books that have interior pages extruded to the ridiculous degree of the Avengers #1 , or have impacted staples made worse during the pressing process.

 

I would agree with this 100%.

 

+1

 

But Steve B isn't the honcho at CGC anymore. How about Haspel ... Nope gone too. Maybe Matt Nelson will take an aggressive stance against this technique until he adds it to his repertoire. meh

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

 

I dont know, to me it's completely different.

 

Like i said before, i dont mind pressing or buying pressed books. If a press takers away some faults that time and wear have put on a book and restore it to what it looked like years earlier, i dont have a problem with that.

 

Thats not whats happening here though. That Avengers 1 was restored to what it used to look like. It was completely changed and now is a different book with a different wrap to apparently successfully fool CGC into giving it a higher grade.

 

CGC has a lot of explaining to do on this imo. I dont care where the faults are, if its the spine or back cover. If a book has enough faults to make it a "weak" 8.5, no amount of shifting those faults around should bump it to a 9.2 :preach:

 

 

Sorry in advance, I tried to not open this thread as I stopped reading these threads years ago. I basically made a conscious choice after Ewertgate, either give up collecting or understand that there are A LOT of things possible in a Blue slab.

 

Clean and Press, Yep, Clean other things (Yep), disassemble to book (Yep, granted you have to be very talented, but when we are talking tens of thousands people tend to acquire talent), Shift the spine (Yep) and so on.

 

To those that feel that pressing is ok but this is not ok lollollol:roflmao: Sorry I respect you but :facepalm:

 

Look when I buy a slab I know all of that is going on, I know Jason Ewert is still submitted books to CGC (granted through 3rd parties - oh the irony) and I also assume that there are things that are going on that I don't know about or haven't even dreamed of yet.

 

You want rules? Guess what there are no rules, and that really is the only rule. You see when the dollars are this big there are people in comics that have a singular focus. "Do whatever you can to increase the technical grade of a book and still retain the Blue Label." FULL STOP, that is IT.

 

The page flare and miscut from the spine and wrap adjustment probably doesn't come into play until 9.6 so add another manipulation technique to the pile. As someone posted there is no out of bounds, just edges of paper bound in wondrous plastic for your viewing pleasure.

 

you're right in a way, but its still pretty disgusting and this is one new layer of garbage that is more heinous than most of the other previous layers of garbage.

 

Comics aren't my only hobby and when I see this I just think about reallocating back to my other hobby, and I can't be the only one that thinks this way.

 

Its also kind of disgusting that this dilutes the uniqueness of truly virgin hg books. I know, I know, blah blah blah. But shifting a spine is so far outside of what I consider acceptable in an unrestored book.

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