Follow up response from Steve Borock

[deathlok]

We could file it under "Imaginary Creatures"......

 

- Chimera

- Unicorn

- Big Foot

- Lock Ness Monster

- Pressing

- Minotaur

- Dry Cleaning

- Werewolf

- Vampire

- Greggy

- Deathlok's good side.

 

Yep....that's how we should categorize it!

 

 

 

 

List updated.

 

List updated

[Red Hook]

We could file it under "Imaginary Creatures"......

 

- Chimera

- Unicorn

- Big Foot

- Loch Ness Monster

- Pressing

- Minotaur

- Dry Cleaning

- Werewolf

- Vampire

- Greggy

- Deathlok's good side.

 

Yep....that's how we should categorize it!

 

 

 

 

List updated.

 

List updated

 

List spell checked too. (Damn lawyers!)

[Harvey Dude]

Actually at least 3 CGC employees including Steve, West (and I think the third was Friesen when he was still with CGC) have stated that pressing is not restoration for, among other independent several reasons, that it cannot be detected.

 

I mentioned this before and someone, I believe in this thread (but who knows where!), confirmed my recollection.

 

One thing I always wondered. If CGC never believed pressing was restoration, then why did they ever bother to put the information on a restored label? In the last week, I have seen at least five incidents of this. Plenty of examples on Heritage as well.

 

 

 

http://images.heritagecoin.com/images/HRCG/75/0087000091o.jpg

[goldust40]

One thing I always wondered. If CGC never believed pressing was restoration, then why did they ever bother to put the information on a restored label?

 

That type of pressing that's listed on those PLODS (where the cover is cleaned also) would involve disassembly of the book. The "pressing that isn't resto" doesn't include that sort of tampering.

[thirdgreenham]

heck of a read.

[Calamerica]

Now this was 2005??? I hounded Mr. Borock for the verification processed membership to be part of the Boards.

 

This never happened.

 

Should and needs to happen.

 

Unhappy CAL

[Calamerica]

Just because there are many on here with shill id’s with there own anti-CGC agenda, I truly believe that the level headed people that truly love the hobby on our forum can pick them out and ignore them. But, because of this we might make it so that when you sign up, you need to use a real name that can be verified. It sounds silly that we would have to do this, but we want to keep the boards free from some of the nonsense that these people cause. Most people on here have no problem using their real name, if they have nothing to hide, why should they mind.

 

 

From Mr. Borock's first post of his Thread.

 

C'mon CGC do this - cull the lemming herds.

 

CAL who is applying for the ax man...

 

[Beastfeast]

Who cares? Are you going to go fight someone once you find out who they are? Black list them from buying/selling? Rub a toothbrush on their neck until the skin turns pink?

 

I'm Roy Berry. Hi. Nice to meet you.

[Calamerica]

Who cares? Are you going to go fight someone once you find out who they are? Black list them from buying/selling? Rub a toothbrush on their neck until the skin turns pink?

 

I'm Roy Berry. Hi. Nice to meet you.

 

You have 97 posts and don't ask the appropriate question of WHY this needs to be implemented.

 

This is not a fumble for you to pick up and run the wrong direction. A lot is at stake here. Mainly people's businesses and the trolling needs to stop.

 

You either have no clue what is going on here, or are another shill. Either way I have no idea who you are and until you tell me, what your agenda is.

 

CAL making another stand.

[canickus]

Who cares? Are you going to go fight someone once you find out who they are? Black list them from buying/selling? Rub a toothbrush on their neck until the skin turns pink?

 

I'm Roy Berry. Hi. Nice to meet you.

 

You have 97 posts and don't ask the appropriate question of WHY this needs to be implemented.

 

This is not a fumble for you to pick up and run the wrong direction. A lot is at stake here. Mainly people's businesses and the trolling needs to stop.

 

You either have no clue what is going on here, or are another shill. Either way I have no idea who you are and until you tell me, what your agenda is.

 

CAL making another stand.

 

 

CAL, I respectfully disagree with your position here. My identity is no secret to the (many) board members that I have traded with or corresponded directly with.

 

However, I do not feel that it is necessary for anyone else to know my identity.

 

I can assure you that I do have a clue of what is going on here, and I am not a shill. If I have an agenda other than a passion for collecting comics, you should be able to discern it from my posts.

 

Like most people, I give more weight to the posts of people that I know or who people that I don't know who have been proven credible in the past. Knowing a person's identity does not mean you know a person's agenda.

 

 

[Calamerica]

Who cares? Are you going to go fight someone once you find out who they are? Black list them from buying/selling? Rub a toothbrush on their neck until the skin turns pink?

 

I'm Roy Berry. Hi. Nice to meet you.

 

You have 97 posts and don't ask the appropriate question of WHY this needs to be implemented.

 

This is not a fumble for you to pick up and run the wrong direction. A lot is at stake here. Mainly people's businesses and the trolling needs to stop.

 

You either have no clue what is going on here, or are another shill. Either way I have no idea who you are and until you tell me, what your agenda is.

 

CAL making another stand.

 

 

CAL, I respectfully disagree with your position here. My identity is no secret to the (many) board members that I have traded with or corresponded directly with.

 

However, I do not feel that it is necessary for anyone else to know my identity.

 

I can assure you that I do have a clue of what is going on here, and I am not a shill. If I have an agenda other than a passion for collecting comics, you should be able to discern it from my posts.

 

Like most people, I give more weight to the posts of people that I know or who people that I don't know who have been proven credible in the past. Knowing a person's identity does not mean you know a person's agenda.

 

 

But the trolling can be eliminated.

 

This is getting unbelievable here on the Boards... again!!

 

CAL who can't believe what he is seeing recently

[Beastfeast]

Seriously...What difference does it make if you know who someone is or not on a message board?

 

I've been reading this board since about '04. I joined and started posting around '05 and then stopped buying books so I lost interest in checking back in.

 

From what I've gathered, you all have a basic idea of who the "important" people are around here, i.e. dealers, big collectors, good guys, bad guys, etc...

 

So, if someone like me, who's never really posted anything worth a mess, shows up and starts making completely ridiculous claims about a dealer, it's pretty easy to shrug it off as some random internet person. It's obvious the person making the baseless claims isn't going to change the way you or people close you view them, right?

 

So then, how does knowing the name matter at all?

 

The shills get weeded out and the people just posting inflammatory stuff either get booted or get bored and leave. I understand the need to keep that riff raff to a minimum but give me a break...

 

You either have no clue what is going on here, or are another shill. Either way I have no idea who you are and until you tell me, what your agenda is.

 

CAL making another stand.

 

Huh? Hi. My agenda is to talk about comics, learn to grade better, and talk about . Is that ok with you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Calamerica]

Seriously...What difference does it make if you know who someone is or not on a message board?

 

I've been reading this board since about '04. I joined and started posting around '05 and then stopped buying books so I lost interest in checking back in.

 

From what I've gathered, you all have a basic idea of who the "important" people are around here, i.e. dealers, big collectors, good guys, bad guys, etc...

 

So, if someone like me, who's never really posted anything worth a mess, shows up and starts making completely ridiculous claims about a dealer, it's pretty easy to shrug it off as some random internet person. It's obvious the person making the baseless claims isn't going to change the way you or people close you view them, right?

 

So then, how does knowing the name matter at all?

 

The shills get weeded out and the people just posting inflammatory stuff either get booted or get bored and leave. I understand the need to keep that riff raff to a minimum but give me a break...

 

You either have no clue what is going on here, or are another shill. Either way I have no idea who you are and until you tell me, what your agenda is.

 

CAL making another stand.

 

Huh? Hi. My agenda is to talk about comics, learn to grade better, and talk about . Is that ok with you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK. Let me go slower here.

 

If someone, named XYZ, who is a known trouble-making worthless scum, tries to register, s/he must get verified. Because we know who XYZ is, s/he can't get on here to flame everyone or anyone in particular.

 

Talking about - if that is your cup of tea, or cup of , go for it. Unfortunately there are MANY here that do not want to talk comics. They are anti-CGC and they are on a mission. There are several anti-CAL folks here and they do not like how I do or say things. Too bad.

 

Unfortunately I am not the CGC Forum Police. If I were, things would be much better. No more trolling. I would just boot them right off.

 

CAL

 

 

[Beastfeast]

Look. I understand what you're saying.

 

I guess what I'M trying to get across is why have such thin skin about random jerks on a message board who post either anti-CGC or anti-CAL things? At the end of the day, do some shills really effect your bottom line as far as selling? Do they really kill your peace of mind that much?

 

Shrug that mess off, man.

 

 

 

 

[Calamerica]

Look. I understand what you're saying.

 

I guess what I'M trying to get across is why have such thin skin about random jerks on a message board who post either anti-CGC or anti-CAL things? At the end of the day, do some shills really effect your bottom line as far as selling? Do they really kill your peace of mind that much?

 

Shrug that mess off, man.

 

 

 

 

Yes they have done harm.

 

They have libeled several people that are good business people. People have worked very hard to get to where they are in business and to have their reputations destroyed to me, is not to be taken lightly. CGC apparently does not care enough that many members have been chased out of here by the trolls who are definitely anti-CGC.

 

CAL

[Beastfeast]

Trust me...I'm not trying to fight with you or tell you you're wrong or anything. I guess I'm just ignorant to the crazy mess that's gone down on the boards when I stopped posting.

 

But, and this might be because I've never owned my own business or had to make my living on my reputation, I find it hard to believe that some trolls on a message board could ruin someone.

 

I guess I'm naive to the depths super crazy internet personalities would stoop.

[Bosco685]

CGC apparently does not care enough that many members have been chased out of here by the trolls who are definitely anti-CGC.

Cal/CAL, not sure what brough this on, but I promise to go back and scan the earlier part of the thread.

 

If there are certain folks on here just to attack reputable sellers, have you ever called Gemma or Dena to have a discussion about what you have witnessed with some of the facts to see what can be done?

 

I'm going to assume they try to be reasonable with these situations, sensitive to needing the facts first, but then once it is clear they will take action.

 

I've only noticed a few heated situations where you could tell someone had an agenda against another person. But then again, sometimes you read comments where there may be some history involved and it goes over mosts of our heads because the agenda is so deep you cannot tell from the statements.

 

And with CGC requiring non-hotmail or yahoo accounts, but you can create a certain amount of email addresses with your ISP, I do see the point that there are those that can still trip the system up.

 

Maybe some form of three-factor ID authentication where it is email, a payment type that you have on file with CGC from submittals, and a shipping address. But once again, many on here may not submit books but rather figure to buy them only and they would not have some form of extensive information on file.

 

Just trying to help here - not attack your position. I just didn't realize there were that many on the forum working against other members or CGC.

[Flaming_Telepath]

IMHO, there is not the problem that Cal perceives there to be.

 

There are many dealers who have taken flak here...Doug Schmell, CLink, Heritage, Metropolis, SNE, and many others...but there have been so few instances of the criticism being unjustified/unfounded that it's simply not worth the debate.

 

When things do get out of hand, in the Mods eyes, strikes or bans are handed down. I personally have been warned regarding comments I've made about CLink, Richard Evans took a week-long vacation for getting into a 'thing' with Metro, a number of boarders have been sent on vacation for inappropriate posting, shills have been banned.

 

The thing is, this is a 'discussion' board and to have a healthy, meaningful discussion, you need to have contrary views. If we all shared exactly the same opinion on everything, this place would be dead, dead, dead. We would also never make any progress within the hobby, as the status quo and the vested interests would have free rein.

 

Take CGC itself. I have problems with some of the things they do and have done...and I have posted my dissatisfaction here, sometimes with some venom. Now, this is the sort of thing that Cal feels has no place here, but I disagree. I might have issues with CGC, but I currently own around $70,000 worth of slabs, have sold many times that amount, and have always supported the concept of having an independent, third party grading company in the hobby. I think we need it.

 

But under a zero tolerance policy, I would be banned for life.

 

This board should not be a ra-ra section for CGC and every dealer who happens to have the coin to take out an ad in Overstreet. Posters should be respectful of their hosts, be prepared to back up any accusations against 'names' within the hobby with facts, and avoid getting personal and vindictive if somebody doesn't agree with them.

 

In all honesty, this place is like Prozac Central compared to three/four years ago...and I'm not sure that that's a good thing.

[Mac Man]

IMHO, there is not the problem that Cal perceives there to be.

 

There are many dealers who have taken flak here...Doug Schmell, CLink, Heritage, Metropolis, SNE, and many others...but there have been so few instances of the criticism being unjustified/unfounded that it's simply not worth the debate.

 

When things do get out of hand, in the Mods eyes, strikes or bans are handed down. I personally have been warned regarding comments I've made about CLink, Richard Evans took a week-long vacation for getting into a 'thing' with Metro, a number of boarders have been sent on vacation for inappropriate posting, shills have been banned.

 

The thing is, this is a 'discussion' board and to have a healthy, meaningful discussion, you need to have contrary views. If we all shared exactly the same opinion on everything, this place would be dead, dead, dead. We would also never make any progress within the hobby, as the status quo and the vested interests would have free rein.

 

Take CGC itself. I have problems with some of the things they do and have done...and I have posted my dissatisfaction here, sometimes with some venom. Now, this is the sort of thing that Cal feels has no place here, but I disagree. I might have issues with CGC, but I currently own around $70,000 worth of slabs, have sold many times that amount, and have always supported the concept of having an independent, third party grading company in the hobby. I think we need it.

 

But under a zero tolerance policy, I would be banned for life.

 

This board should not be a ra-ra section for CGC and every dealer who happens to have the coin to take out an ad in Overstreet. Posters should be respectful of their hosts, be prepared to back up any accusations against 'names' within the hobby with facts, and avoid getting personal and vindictive if somebody doesn't agree with them.

 

In all honesty, this place is like Prozac Central compared to three/four years ago...and I'm not sure that that's a good thing.

 

FT, I definitely have to agree with on all accounts except for the Prozac Central bit--and that's because I've been floating around the boards for about two years.

 

[awe4one]

In all honesty, this place is like Prozac Central compared to three/four years ago...and I'm not sure that that's a good thing.

 

Yep...but then again, there were alot more obvious issues that were brought to light in 2005 in relation to CGC and the hobby in general that shook up a majority of collectors and made them reexamine the hows and whys of this hobby...

 

Today...either those issues have been accepted, rectified, or ignored by a large majority of Forum members and nothing "new", other than old issues reemerging, have surfaced to reenergize the passion seen in those old threads. Also, a good amount of moderation pressure has been applied since where we probably won't be seeing the type of frank, honest discourse today that we saw then...

 

Jim