Grader Notes

[Speedy-D]

I'm curious if anybody has asked anybody at CGC about how they came up with the pricing structure for the notes. Part of me understands charging for notes. But $15 or $30 a book seems pretty outrageous.

 

I suspect more people would pay for the notes and CGC would make more money from the service if the prices were more reasonable.

 

I agree. $15-30 a book is outrageous in light of what other services are available for a much lower price.

 

The majority of books they grade cost $30 or less, an encapsulation costs $12, etc.

 

The arbitrary number seems to be much more abrasive than the fact that they are charging for the service.

 

And I agree that a smaller fee would make the system much more appealing, much more accessible, much more inviting.

 

Additionally, I agree that it's unsavoury to me to have to pay an additional fee to know why my own book graded out as it did when I've already paid a fair grading fee for the service in the first place.

 

Finally, the 24 hour wait? If you're going to make it an online service then if it were me, I'd hire a data entry person and enter the data so that it is all available online.

 

The service would still be a money maker if done right for the long run.

 

At $15-30 a book for the more expensive tiers (with a 24 hour wait) I really think it's going to stall.

 

Maybe that's what they want.

 

 

My guess is that they have already started entering the graders' notes (or already plan of hiring someone to enter all of this data), and it's just in the beginning stages and that's why there's a "24 hour" wait period. It only makes sense to spend the money to get all of those notes onto their database now, so the upkeep will be kept to a minimum.

 

It would actually be surprising if they didn't already have all of these notes on a database somewhere.

The data gets entered already, it always has been. Do you think they have a warehouse full of reams of hand scribbled notes? No, it's in a database somewhere. It's a no-brainer to write a web service that pulls the data and makes it available via an online query. And it should be free. If not free, then there should be some nominal annual subscription rate, like say $70. It'd be ~100% profit for CGC, and take all the pressure off graders or whoever it is that has been reading notes over the phone, and is now sending out (tardy) emails.

[comicwiz]

CGC is a service. Their product is a selling tool. The compelling need for a service and a selling tool of this kind is to attain buyer confidence.

 

If a buyer wants to know what the graders notes are on a book but has to pay for it, the selling tool function is lost, and without it, there is zero buyer confidence.

 

Did this database get written in cobol or some similar coding horror? What is the hang-up with putting it online at no charge?

 

It just seems that charging for something that could be provided at no charge after a decade without needing to feels like usury.

 

It's like paying for a rental when you have a working vehicle sitting on the driveway.

[Foolkiller]

To me, the whole point is, stop calling for grading notes. That's the goal. The cost is designed for people to stop calling.

 

The way this changes? If it's going to change, it's going to be enough high volume dealers complaining. If not, this whole discussion is pointless, because the only thing CGC wants is people to not call. If they get, let's say, two calls a day, it's probably even then a nuisance.

 

There's no viable competition because it costs too much to start a grading company and you don't make enough money.

 

If you don't like it, it's not about submitting, it's about stopping buying graded books. But most people here like to make money on slabbing. And people also like buying graded. So there you go.

[TeddieMercede]

I'm curious if anybody has asked anybody at CGC about how they came up with the pricing structure for the notes. Part of me understands charging for notes. But $15 or $30 a book seems pretty outrageous.

 

I suspect more people would pay for the notes and CGC would make more money from the service if the prices were more reasonable.

 

I agree. $15-30 a book is outrageous in light of what other services are available for a much lower price.

 

The majority of books they grade cost $30 or less, an encapsulation costs $12, etc.

 

The arbitrary number seems to be much more abrasive than the fact that they are charging for the service.

 

And I agree that a smaller fee would make the system much more appealing, much more accessible, much more inviting.

 

Additionally, I agree that it's unsavoury to me to have to pay an additional fee to know why my own book graded out as it did when I've already paid a fair grading fee for the service in the first place.

 

Finally, the 24 hour wait? If you're going to make it an online service then if it were me, I'd hire a data entry person and enter the data so that it is all available online.

 

The service would still be a money maker if done right for the long run.

 

At $15-30 a book for the more expensive tiers (with a 24 hour wait) I really think it's going to stall.

 

Maybe that's what they want.

 

 

My guess is that they have already started entering the graders' notes (or already plan of hiring someone to enter all of this data), and it's just in the beginning stages and that's why there's a "24 hour" wait period. It only makes sense to spend the money to get all of those notes onto their database now, so the upkeep will be kept to a minimum.

 

It would actually be surprising if they didn't already have all of these notes on a database somewhere.

 

Really, my guess is they're just gonna have someone copy and paste from their current grader's notes when requests come in.

[Speedy-D]

To me, the whole point is, stop calling for grading notes. That's the goal. The cost is designed for people to stop calling.

The cost has nothing to do with getting people to stop calling. The switch to an online service gets people to stop calling. And it's about time they made that move (although with the wait for someone to get around to sending you an email, I'd say it's not quite online yet).

[Speedy-D]

It's like paying for a rental when you have a working vehicle sitting on the driveway.

It's a free ri-ee-ide, when you've already paid!

[comicwiz]

To me, the whole point is, stop calling for grading notes. That's the goal. The cost is designed for people to stop calling.

 

The way this changes? If it's going to change, it's going to be enough high volume dealers complaining. If not, this whole discussion is pointless, because the only thing CGC wants is people to not call. If they get, let's say, two calls a day, it's probably even then a nuisance.

 

There's no viable competition because it costs too much to start a grading company and you don't make enough money.

 

If you don't like it, it's not about submitting, it's about stopping buying graded books. But most people here like to make money on slabbing. And people also like buying graded. So there you go.

 

I get the operational costs associated to taking calls for graders notes. But that is a flaw in the delivery of their service model from day one, not our problem, which is why I called it usury.

 

We might have been able to overcome this flaw had it not been that as the selling tool evolved, buyers were given less and less information.

 

For example, 99% of my calls for graders notes is to check on rusted staples. First gen labels all included a 'rusty staples" notation. CPR and SCS pretty much are wiping out old labels like the plague, so now the only way to get this info is to call for notes.

 

As a collector who went full-stop on submissions, this indirectly effects me as a buyer.

 

If CGC was striving to make grading the dial-up service of the comic hobby, they succeeded.

[Foolkiller]

I think they'd rather people didn't have the notes at all. The cost has to do with that. The elimination of the calling is to take the burden off.

 

Basically, this is geared towards eliminating people having notes and less knowledge about the internal process itself.

 

I don't think it's targeted towards anyone in particular, just the general knowledge that giving out notes isn't part of the service, so if you want them, pay extra. And this cost structure discourages people from asking at all.

[comicwiz]

So is this a CPR tax? Like we need another reason to steer away from graded comics.

[vane]

I understand that a company needs to make money but not this way. They're charging customers for something that they provided free for over 10 years. They have a great idea providing grading notes online BUT 10 years worth!!! That's allot of data entry to enter into a database.

 

Maybe what they should have done that any current books being graded as of 4/26/2012 and on...all grading notes will be entered and can be viewed online. Any books before 4/26/2012 will be a small fee to pull from file.

 

I think that'll be fair for everyone. CGC really have to keep a good relationship with their customers. If a new competitor arise the loyal CGC customers will still stay with CGC.

 

Pretty soon we won't be able to talk customer service.

[VintageComics]

I think they'd rather people didn't have the notes at all. The cost has to do with that. The elimination of the calling is to take the burden off.

 

Basically, this is geared towards eliminating people having notes and less knowledge about the internal process itself.

 

I don't think it's targeted towards anyone in particular, just the general knowledge that giving out notes isn't part of the service, so if you want them, pay extra. And this cost structure discourages people from asking at all.

 

That's what Lou thinks. They just don't care to give them out at all.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

I think they'd rather people didn't have the notes at all. The cost has to do with that. The elimination of the calling is to take the burden off.

 

Basically, this is geared towards eliminating people having notes and less knowledge about the internal process itself.

 

I don't think it's targeted towards anyone in particular, just the general knowledge that giving out notes isn't part of the service, so if you want them, pay extra. And this cost structure discourages people from asking at all.

 

That's what Lou thinks. They just don't care to give them out at all.

 

 

Yep. It's not about the cost. The whole point is, the cost is supposed to be outrageous. Making money off of it is an ancillary -- and probably inconsequential -- benefit to them. Eliminating notes, while purportedly making it "easier" to get them online and getting rid of a nuisance in one fell swoop. Pretty smart move if this is the goal.

 

And while there's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, they know a couple of things:

 

1) People on this boards fall into one of two categories primarily:

 

A) People who make money off of slabs.

 

B) Collectors who prefer to buy slabs for the "security" of their money/collection.

 

C) People who don't have anything to do with slabs.

 

Generally, if you're A or B, despite being upset, you aren't going to change your behavior one bit. You'll keep buying slabs and keep submitting them.

 

If you're C, it really doesn't matter what you think because you don't slab stuff anyway or buy them.

 

2) There's too much money tied up in grading and encapsulation and the high end vintage market along with signature series have such a stranglehold on the market, it's near impossible to reverse, and there's no legitimate competition.

 

Continuing to give out information only hurts their brand, so why do it? And don't say "for the customer". Their response is, if you want that, pay for it. If you are outraged, do without the slabs.

 

The problem is, I've often said on this front, CGC is a business. That business does not have to worry about competition right now. So it's operating in just that way.

[VintageComics]

Continuing to give out information only hurts their brand, so why do it? And don't say "for the customer". Their response is, if you want that, pay for it. If you are outraged, do without the slabs.

 

The problem is, I've often said on this front, CGC is a business. That business does not have to worry about competition right now. So it's operating in just that way.

 

The rich (those that spend the money for notes) will continue to get richer (understand the grading process better).

 

Someone is going to come out with a more socialist-like grading system to combat it.

 

It's going to really become a factor when people who send a book in to get graded are disappointed by the grade a book receives and will want to know why. I can just imaging the responses poor Eric and Gemma will get when they tell them that for an additional fee they can explain to them why.

 

 

Too many reasons for people not to use CGC only causes unrest and opens the doors to people exploring options.

 

[Foolkiller]

Continuing to give out information only hurts their brand, so why do it? And don't say "for the customer". Their response is, if you want that, pay for it. If you are outraged, do without the slabs.

 

The problem is, I've often said on this front, CGC is a business. That business does not have to worry about competition right now. So it's operating in just that way.

 

The rich (those that spend the money for notes) will continue to get richer (understand the grading process better).

 

Someone is going to come out with a more socialist-like grading system to combat it.

 

It's going to really become a factor when people who send a book in to get graded are disappointed by the grade a book receives and will want to know why. I can just imaging the responses poor Eric and Gemma will get when they tell them that for an additional fee they can explain to them why.

 

 

Too many reasons for people not to use CGC only causes unrest and opens the doors to people exploring options.

 

That's true. But you have to someone with an awful lot of money, willing to lose money, to start another grading company. Do you know how many people with money who are active in comics have bandied about or been approached about starting a grading company? The response they've given me? F--k no! and then they I could put that same money elsewhere and make a lot more money!

 

They may have to deal with your above scenario, and that's a problem, but they probably already get those same people complaining when they got the notes for free

 

In terms of the rich getting richer, most of them already understand the system very, very well. Schmell, Brulato and other "insiders" already understand the process -- and you can try and glean bits and pieces of info to compete.

[A-DONIS]

I, for one, don't mind change, but only if it's positive.

 

 

[toro]

I don't know if anyone else has gone to the Ask CGC forum, so I placed this in there. (hopefully it will be posted and somethings answered.

 

Hi Gemma,

 

As you may have seen the boards are abuzz with the introduction of the new service for Graders notes. People are speculating on the reason/s behind the move.

 

Some people feel that the notes should be free, others don't have a problem paying, but feel the fees are way out of kilter. Some feel it has become just too much of a bother for the graders with all of the phone calls that take them away from the primary goal of grading. Others feel it is because CGC just doesn't want to give out that information anymore and the high fees will dissuade people from using the service. Also since the notes are in a database why the one day wait to have them emailed?

 

If you could shed some light on this it would be much appreciated.

 

One question I do have is could it be possible since you do offer imaging services for a fee if the same type of option could be offered for notes when a person submits their books?

 

Thank You,

Toro

[fantastic_four]

Did this database get written in cobol or some similar coding horror? What is the hang-up with putting it online at no charge?

 

The notes are most likely an inconsistent mess, and when the graders have been reading them over the phone, they've been verbally editing them for us. They probably standardized them at some point to make them more consistent, and the site pulls the ones up after that standardization time automatically and the others it sends a request off for someone to manually copy and paste an edited version of the notes.

[fantastic_four]

I think they'd rather people didn't have the notes at all. The cost has to do with that. The elimination of the calling is to take the burden off.

 

Basically, this is geared towards eliminating people having notes and less knowledge about the internal process itself.

 

I don't think it's targeted towards anyone in particular, just the general knowledge that giving out notes isn't part of the service, so if you want them, pay extra. And this cost structure discourages people from asking at all.

 

I generally agree. They don't want the notes becoming an expected part of the service for the same reason they stopped putting those notes they used to put on the label in the first few years of the service--they're massively incomplete, and that incompleteness can readily lead to false assumptions and stigmas on certain books on the part of customers. People did it here all the time--certain notes on the label were the kiss of death for the marketability of a book because people thought of them as being something separate and externally-detracting from the grade. Making the notes freely available could tend towards the same sorts of bad assumptions and decrease the overall marketability of a book.

[r100comics]

You'd have to be to pay $15 for grader's notes.

 

CGC stopped revealing the 3 grades assigned by the graders for each book as part of a new "policy" recently, so I wonder if that was linked to this new move ?

 

Will you now also get the 3 grades given if you pay this fee ?

[gaz973]

I think they'd rather people didn't have the notes at all. The cost has to do with that. The elimination of the calling is to take the burden off.

 

Basically, this is geared towards eliminating people having notes and less knowledge about the internal process itself.

 

I don't think it's targeted towards anyone in particular, just the general knowledge that giving out notes isn't part of the service, so if you want them, pay extra. And this cost structure discourages people from asking at all.

 

That's what Lou thinks. They just don't care to give them out at all.

 

 

Yep. It's not about the cost. The whole point is, the cost is supposed to be outrageous. Making money off of it is an ancillary -- and probably inconsequential -- benefit to them. Eliminating notes, while purportedly making it "easier" to get them online and getting rid of a nuisance in one fell swoop. Pretty smart move if this is the goal.

 

And while there's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, they know a couple of things:

 

1) People on this boards fall into one of two categories primarily:

 

A) People who make money off of slabs.

 

B) Collectors who prefer to buy slabs for the "security" of their money/collection.

 

C) People who don't have anything to do with slabs.

 

Generally, if you're A or B, despite being upset, you aren't going to change your behavior one bit. You'll keep buying slabs and keep submitting them.

 

If you're C, it really doesn't matter what you think because you don't slab stuff anyway or buy them.

 

2) There's too much money tied up in grading and encapsulation and the high end vintage market along with signature series have such a stranglehold on the market, it's near impossible to reverse, and there's no legitimate competition.

 

Continuing to give out information only hurts their brand, so why do it? And don't say "for the customer". Their response is, if you want that, pay for it. If you are outraged, do without the slabs.

 

The problem is, I've often said on this front, CGC is a business. That business does not have to worry about competition right now. So it's operating in just that way.

 

Yep, I think you're hitting the nail on the head here. (thumbs u