Hulk 271--why does anybody care about this book?

[Illustrious]

[the blob]

Why aren't ppl clamoring for the first comic appearance of Star Lord? Because cgc never labeled a comic as such? Please.

 

Because there was never a comic appearance of Star-Lord that was ever, under any circumstances, considered his first appearance. Thank you.

 

But he appeared in comic format for the first time at some point right? Marvel Feature 6?

 

Marvel Spotlight (Vol. 2) #6

 

The power of John Byrne! I'm guessing it became semi-collectible pretty quickly because of him even though the character never really took off.

 

Plus, there were like 6 or 7 star lord stories in a row in MP all on the front cover, kind of hard to miss (sure someone said this already). the spotlight is just referenced as his origin in an OPG from a few years ago.

[Mishmashman]

My main point in saying that there's no similar cgc designation for Star-Lord's first comic appearance was to point out that cgc is being inconsistent by singling out RR's appearance in Hulk 271 as a so-called "first comic book appearance" while Star-Lord, who also debuted in a magazine, never got similar treatment with his first comic appearance. CGC seems to be keeping the Hulk 271 first appearance designation only to placate the speculating masses after mistakenly calling Hulk 271 the first app of Rocket.

[seanfingh]

My main point in saying that there's no similar cgc designation for Star-Lord's first comic appearance was to point out that cgc is being inconsistent by singling out RR's appearance in Hulk 271 as a so-called "first comic book appearance" while Star-Lord, who also debuted in a magazine, never got similar treatment with his first comic appearance. CGC seems to be keeping the Hulk 271 first appearance designation only to placate the speculating masses after mistakenly calling Hulk 271 the first app of Rocket.

 

I agree that the labeling issue is a huge mess.

[seanfingh]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

Not in 1976 they didn't.

[FantasticFan-migration]

Wow, didn't expect my rant post to stir up so much discussion. Thanks for all the feedback. Glad we can all agree Marvel Preview 7 is Rocket's first app, and not Hulk 271.

 

One question, especially to the longtime collectors: Why is Marvel Preview 7 so tough to find in high grade compared to its comic counterparts from the same era?

 

I mean 3 9.8s, 6 9.6s, and 6 9.4s currently on the census? Even in 9.2 and 9.0 it's not any more plentiful. These are like Silver Age type numbers.

 

There isn't a single Bronze Age DC or Marvel comic key that I'm aware of that is anywhere near as scarce in high grade.

[RockMyAmadeus]

From my perspective, for many reasons - MP7 was a Marvel magazine distributed through the Curtis distribution channels. It was not found in many of the "spinner rack" channels for comics. Distribution of those magazines was more like Vogue or Esquire than it was like a comic. Marvel magazines (and really all magazines) in the late Silver through the entirety of the Bronze Age were not collected by comic collectors. They were not comics because they were not subject to the Comics Code Authority.

 

Excerpting this: Nonetheless, as much stretched the authors implicitly respected them, especially when doing stories which were placed in the Marvel universe.

Now they would be utter garbage, useless for any age.

 

Please translate this into English.

 

The Marvel magazines of that era were often printing stuff vastly superior to the comics.

 

Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella, etc. weren't also collected by comic fans big time? (I will accept that Heavy Metal may not have had as much overlap as the Warren titles)

 

Hulk collectors didn't collect the hulk magazine?

 

Conan collectors didn't collect Savage Sword?

 

Collectors didn't jump on Savage Tales for the Adams art and what not?

 

X-Men fans didn't buy the X-Men Bizarre Adventures issue?

 

Comic fans didn't jump over the Neal Adams/Frank Miller Elektra Bizarre Adventures?

 

I don't buy into this. My comic shop had the magazines on a rack. Some collectors didn't collect them, obviously, from this thread.

 

 

How many comic shops were there in 1976....?

 

That's the answer to your question.

[RockMyAmadeus]

My main point in saying that there's no similar cgc designation for Star-Lord's first comic appearance was to point out that cgc is being inconsistent by singling out RR's appearance in Hulk 271 as a so-called "first comic book appearance" while Star-Lord, who also debuted in a magazine, never got similar treatment with his first comic appearance. CGC seems to be keeping the Hulk 271 first appearance designation only to placate the speculating masses after mistakenly calling Hulk 271 the first app of Rocket.

 

It's not because of the labeling issue. It's because Star-Lord is right there, in your face, on the cover.

 

Rocket Raccoon, however, appears nowhere on the cover of MP #7, and isn't even mentioned.

 

The market isn't stupid. Everyone understands that RR's first appearance isn't Hulk #271...but his first COVER appearance IS, and that's a big deal, especially in the CGC age.

[Mishmashman]

[

 

It's not because of the labeling issue. It's because Star-Lord is right there, in your face, on the cover.

 

Rocket Raccoon, however, appears nowhere on the cover of MP #7, and isn't even mentioned.

 

The market isn't stupid. Everyone understands that RR's first appearance isn't Hulk #271...but his first COVER appearance IS, and that's a big deal, especially in the CGC age.

 

The market isn't stupid? Is the market like the Ancient One? Or the Invisible Hand?

 

If Hulk 271 were labeled correctly--as Rocket's second appearance--the book would be worth a fraction of what it's worth now. According to your reasoning books like Avengers 67 (first Ultron cover) should be pretty valuable and rival Avengers 55, which doesn't feature Ultron anywhere. But that's not the case. I'm afraid in this case "the market" got it very wrong.

[tfish]

I love the cover

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=976396

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's not because of the labeling issue. It's because Star-Lord is right there, in your face, on the cover.

 

Rocket Raccoon, however, appears nowhere on the cover of MP #7, and isn't even mentioned.

 

The market isn't stupid. Everyone understands that RR's first appearance isn't Hulk #271...but his first COVER appearance IS, and that's a big deal, especially in the CGC age.

 

The market isn't stupid? Is the market like the Ancient One? Or the Invisible Hand?

 

If Hulk 271 were labeled correctly--as Rocket's second appearance--the book would be worth a fraction of what it's worth now. According to your reasoning books like Avengers 67 (first Ultron cover) should be pretty valuable and rival Avengers 55, which doesn't feature Ultron anywhere. But that's not the case. I'm afraid in this case "the market" got it very wrong.

 

Sorry, but that's just not true. You may think the market is stupid, but it's not, because the market is composed of an untold number of individuals, all acting in their own best interests, which is how the market works. Looked at as a whole, the market tends to be pretty savvy, most of the time.

 

The market doesn't need CGC labels to tell it what to value items at. If your statement is true, why do raw copies sell for as much as they do? There's no label anywhere attached to the raws. Shouldn't they be worth a fraction of the slabs that say "1st comic book appearance"...?

 

 

And no, this is a pretty unique, if not an actually unique, case: the first appearance of the character anywhere is in a single magazine, and then his next appearance is 6 years later in a comic book. So, no, that reasoning cannot be applied to just any other situation that isn't similar. Avengers #55 is a comic book. So is Avengers #67.

 

 

Sarcasm appreciated, and chuckled at, but not really necessary.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

(slightly related aside...if you had told me, in 2004, that I would be debating the first appearance of Rocket Raccoon, of all characters, I would have laughed myself silly.)

[Bomber-Bob]

I was just looking at the Sold listings on E-Bay for Hulk 271 and nearly all the description titles stated 1st Rocket Racoon. I don't think the market is 'stupid' but in this case I believe they have been misled. They think they are buying the 1st RR period.

[Mishmashman]

It's not because of the labeling issue. It's because Star-Lord is right there, in your face, on the cover.

 

Rocket Raccoon, however, appears nowhere on the cover of MP #7, and isn't even mentioned.

 

The market isn't stupid. Everyone understands that RR's first appearance isn't Hulk #271...but his first COVER appearance IS, and that's a big deal, especially in the CGC age.

 

The market isn't stupid? Is the market like the Ancient One? Or the Invisible Hand?

 

If Hulk 271 were labeled correctly--as Rocket's second appearance--the book would be worth a fraction of what it's worth now. According to your reasoning books like Avengers 67 (first Ultron cover) should be pretty valuable and rival Avengers 55, which doesn't feature Ultron anywhere. But that's not the case. I'm afraid in this case "the market" got it very wrong.

 

Sorry, but that's just not true. You may think the market is stupid, but it's not, because the market is composed of an untold number of individuals, all acting in their own best interests, which is how the market works. Looked at as a whole, the market tends to be pretty savvy, most of the time.

 

The market doesn't need CGC labels to tell it what to value items at. If your statement is true, why do raw copies sell for as much as they do? There's no label anywhere attached to the raws. Shouldn't they be worth a fraction of what the slabs that say "1st comic book appearance"...?

 

 

And no, this is a pretty unique, if not an actually unique, case: the first appearance of the character anywhere is in a single magazine, and then his next appearance is 6 years later in a comic book. So, no, that reasoning cannot be applied to just any other situation that isn't similar. Avengers #55 is a comic book. So is Avengers #67.

 

 

Sarcasm appreciated, and chuckled at, but not really necessary.

 

 

The Avengers 55/67 illustration squarely addresses your point. You said that the reason why MP4 is considered the undisputed first appearance of Star-Lord because he's on the cover whereas in MP7, Rocket is nowhere to be seen. How does the Avengers 55/67 illustration not address your point? You never mentioned anything about a lapse in time in your initial post.

 

And your argument that CGC labels don't matter because raw copies of the book go for nearly as much as slabbed copies--come on! Virtually every single person paying above 2012 guide price for a Hulk 271 erroneously believes they're buying the first RR--slabbed or not. But we all know how authoritative CGC labels can be--that's why we even bother to get books graded by them.

 

And, yes, the market can be pretty stupid sometimes--as even you admit because it's only savvy *most of the time*. People get misled en masse every single day over any number of things. Hulk 271 being RR's first appearance is just another instance of fools rushing in.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's not because of the labeling issue. It's because Star-Lord is right there, in your face, on the cover.

 

Rocket Raccoon, however, appears nowhere on the cover of MP #7, and isn't even mentioned.

 

The market isn't stupid. Everyone understands that RR's first appearance isn't Hulk #271...but his first COVER appearance IS, and that's a big deal, especially in the CGC age.

 

The market isn't stupid? Is the market like the Ancient One? Or the Invisible Hand?

 

If Hulk 271 were labeled correctly--as Rocket's second appearance--the book would be worth a fraction of what it's worth now. According to your reasoning books like Avengers 67 (first Ultron cover) should be pretty valuable and rival Avengers 55, which doesn't feature Ultron anywhere. But that's not the case. I'm afraid in this case "the market" got it very wrong.

 

Sorry, but that's just not true. You may think the market is stupid, but it's not, because the market is composed of an untold number of individuals, all acting in their own best interests, which is how the market works. Looked at as a whole, the market tends to be pretty savvy, most of the time.

 

The market doesn't need CGC labels to tell it what to value items at. If your statement is true, why do raw copies sell for as much as they do? There's no label anywhere attached to the raws. Shouldn't they be worth a fraction of what the slabs that say "1st comic book appearance"...?

 

 

And no, this is a pretty unique, if not an actually unique, case: the first appearance of the character anywhere is in a single magazine, and then his next appearance is 6 years later in a comic book. So, no, that reasoning cannot be applied to just any other situation that isn't similar. Avengers #55 is a comic book. So is Avengers #67.

 

 

Sarcasm appreciated, and chuckled at, but not really necessary.

 

 

The Avengers 55/67 illustration squarely addresses your point. You said that the reason why MP4 is considered the undisputed first appearance of Star-Lord because he's on the cover whereas in MP7, Rocket is nowhere to be seen. How does the Avengers 55/67 illustration not address your point? You never mentioned anything about a lapse in time in your initial post.

 

Avengers #55 is a comic book. So is Avengers #67.

 

Marvel Preview #7 is a magazine. Hulk #271 is a comic book.

 

To add another layer, there are several Ultron appearances after #55, but before #67.

 

So, the two situations aren't comparable in any way.

 

And your argument that CGC labels don't matter because raw copies of the book go for nearly as much as slabbed copies--come on! Virtually every single person paying above 2012 guide price for a Hulk 271 erroneously believes they're buying the first RR--slabbed or not. But we all know how authoritative CGC labels can be--that's why we even bother to get books graded by them.

 

I don't think I've ever, in my life, bought a book because of what it said on the label that wasn't related to grading or signing.

 

How can one possibly know that "virtually every single person paying above 2012 guide price for Hulk #271" is doing it because they "erroneously believe they're buying the first RR"...? You actually want people to believe that almost everyone paying hundreds of dollars for this book is doing it solely because they believe it's RR's first appearance ever...? When a two second Google search would tell them otherwise...?

 

How does one even make such a statement....? It's completely unprovable, and totally opposed to common sense.

 

And, yes, the market can be pretty stupid sometimes--as even you admit because it's only savvy *most of the time*. People get misled en masse every single day over any number of things. Hulk 271 being RR's first appearance is just another instance of fools rushing in.

 

Ok, I'll take you up on it....like what? What else has the market been fooled about as it relates to comics and first appearances? I'm willing to learn. School me.

 

[Broke as a Joke]

Hulk 271 is the first appearance of Rocket Raccoon in Marvel continuity. That's enough for many people to be satisfied with.

 

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616.

 

I think as time goes on people will want both, but for now Hulk 271 is more accessible and also being on the cover is a major perk that new collectors will gravitate to.

[Illustrious]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

[divad]

The hilarious thing, of course, is that anyone really cares about Rocket Raccoon at ALL.

 

(Says he who has sold all of his copies . . . )

[Broke as a Joke]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

 

Interesting, confusing as all that is. It makes it sound like Hulk 271 actually takes place before the events of MP 7. At least the way I read that. So Hulk 271 is supposed to be the very first time we are to meet Rocket.

[Mike's Rack]

Yes there is a magazine that came out years earlier with Rocky Raccoon with a British accent in black and white that had no ties to the 616

 

Wrong. Marvel Preview #7 DOES take place in the main Marvel 616 Universe, read the fourth paragraph down under History, titled "Witch World":

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/Rocket_Raccoon_%28Earth-616%29

 

Interesting, confusing as all that is. It makes it sound like Hulk 271 actually takes place before the events of MP 7. At least the way I read that. So Hulk 271 is supposed to be the very first time we are to meet Rocket.

A retcon doesn't change the fact that MP 7 is the first appearence.