Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[bronze johnny]

4 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Those who collect CGC slabs don't represent the average collector either. 

Regardless, I'll drop it.

True, CGC exclusive collectors represent a smaller percentage of overall comic book collectors. Think we can agree that  the universe of CGC collectors is a hell of a lot bigger than the one consisting of Bronze Age price variant collectors? Imagine how many Bronze Age books have been graded since CGC's inception?  Now try to imagine how many of those graded Bronze Age books are price variants? Do you think price variant collectors are representative of the average CGC Bronze Age collector? The average CGC collector overall? Think it's safe to say that the average CGC collector is more representative of the overall comic book collector in terms of collecting mainstream books (albeit with the condition of a copy being a major attribute) than someone who collects Bronze Age price variants (a very specialized area of collecting given the scarcity of these books and the fact that an average collector is satisfied with having a mainstream copy of Star Wars 1 in their collection).

Then there are collectors who collect both raw and CGC graded books? There are those who collect books graded by CGC and its competitors?  We can also include collectors who collect raw, graded, and restored books? We then have those who collect exclusive raw comic collectors? Do you think the percentage of price variant collectors will change in any of these collector universes? We can agree to disagree.

Edited June 5, 2017 by bronze johnny

[story cover & art by...]

On June 2, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Wait.  

 

And whereas hulk 181 has always spanked cerebus 1 in every grade below 9.0, guess what has happened to the 9.0 181's since this thread was started?   They now sell for a comparable amount of what cerebus 1 sells for in a 9.0, and more  Meanwhile, pitifully, a 9.0 cerebus 1 SS file copy you name it, just went for $3600 in April 2017- a mere $1300 more than the last copy that sold for nearly three years ago. (and keep in mind that there are only five copies of that in that grade in SS.)

So is cerebus 1 "really" worth more than a hulk 181, even in a 9.2?

No.  Not in the real world anyway.   

-J.

and to note... I bought that copy of the 9.0 file copy for 2k... I got a nice return on it... initially got interested bc I never saw a copy above 7.0 surface for 3 years... also my 9.4 tmnt1 i sold for 6k bought for 5k looking back should of held onto that one for a few more months... its me -snikt1988!

also to note I have a 9.8 IH181 

maybe it was 2300 anyhow ill take my return happily

Edited June 5, 2017 by story cover & art by...

[story cover & art by...]

Definite IH181 fanboy...

guess which two copies I'm getting next...

Edited June 5, 2017 by story cover & art by...

[rjrjr]

17 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

True, CGC exclusive collectors represent a smaller percentage of overall comic book collectors. Think we can agree that  the universe of CGC collectors is a hell of a lot bigger than the one consisting of Bronze Age price variant collectors? Imagine how many Bronze Age books have been graded since CGC's inception?  Now try to imagine how many of those graded Bronze Age books are price variants? Do you think price variant collectors are representative of the average CGC Bronze Age collector? The average CGC collector overall? Think it's safe to say that the average CGC collector is more representative of the overall comic book collector in terms of collecting mainstream books (albeit with the condition of a copy being a major attribute) than someone who collects Bronze Age price variants (a very specialized area of collecting given the scarcity of these books and the fact that an average collector is satisfied with having a mainstream copy of Star Wars 1 in their collection).

Then there are collectors who collect both raw and CGC graded books? There are those who collect books graded by CGC and its competitors?  We can also include collectors who collect raw, graded, and restored books? We then have those who collect exclusive raw comic collectors? Do you think the percentage of price variant collectors will change in any of these collector universes? We can agree to disagree.

How many collectors chase the top graded CGC books?

[bronze johnny]

7 hours ago, rjrjr said:

How many collectors chase the top graded CGC books?

How many chase Stan Lee signature books? How many remove the books from the slabs? There are countless variations in the universe of cgc collectors. Again, there are a great deal more cgc collectors than those who collect price variants. 

Your attempt to compare cgc collectors to an extremely to those who collect BAcprice variants -an extremely specialized area of comic collecting- assumes that those all of those who collect slab books do so for the slab an not the book and fails to take into account that there are many collectors who purchase via the internet and want a guaranteed restoration check that cgc affords. We will continue to disagree on one significant point- Star Wars 1 35 cent price variant is not a mainstream book. The Star Wars 30 cent copy is.

Edited June 6, 2017 by bronze johnny

[rjrjr]

On 6/6/2017 at 4:10 AM, bronze johnny said:

How many chase Stan Lee signature books? How many remove the books from the slabs? There are countless variations in the universe of cgc collectors. Again, there are a great deal more cgc collectors than those who collect price variants. 

Your attempt to compare cgc collectors to an extremely to those who collect BAcprice variants -an extremely specialized area of comic collecting- assumes that those all of those who collect slab books do so for the slab an not the book and fails to take into account that there are many collectors who purchase via the internet and want a guaranteed restoration check that cgc affords. We will continue to disagree on one significant point- Star Wars 1 35 cent price variant is not a mainstream book. The Star Wars 30 cent copy is.

Who was arguing it was?  I was just pointing out that collecting the top graded CGC book is not mainstream either.

I figured in a thread that is trying to reason if the IH #181 or Cerebus #1 is the top valued book in the Bronze Age in top grade, it would be informative to tell everyone there is another book that sells for more than twice as much as both of these in top grade.  You can caveat it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.  Cerebus #1 has even less books graded that this Star Wars #1 variant so is that a non-mainstream comic book, whatever that means, as well?

Edited June 8, 2017 by rjrjr

[bronze johnny]

9 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Who was arguing it was?  I was just pointing out that collecting the top graded CGC book is not mainstream either.

I figured in a thread that is trying to reason if the IH #181 or Cerebus #1 is the top valued book in the Bronze Age in top grade, it would be informative to tell everyone there is another book that sells for more than twice as much as both of these in top grade.  You can caveat it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.  Cerebus #1 has even less books graded that this Star Wars #1 variant so is that a non-mainstream comic book, whatever that means, as well?

You don't think there are more people collecting top graded copies than BA price variants? Particularly when we talk about modern comics. You don't think there are more modern collections with at least one top graded copy  than BA price variants?

It is noted that Star Wars 1 is the most valuable comic on the Overstreet list for the top BA books. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Bob put the Star Wars, Iron Fist, etc. BA variants in a separate category. A caveat is required when it comes to comparing Star Wars 1 to these books irrespective of whether Cerebus 1 is scarcer- the 35 cent variant is one version of the Star Wars 1 comic. This is a characteristic that makes this price variant a unique book unlike Cerebus 1 and Hulk 181. I'm sorry if you underestimate this significant distinction and it's why I would never compare Hulk 181 to the 35 cent version of Star Wars 1. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by bronze johnny

[WolverineX]

Do we have a separate Cerebus thread?  I found Cerebus 50-60 in the dollar bin at a local comic shop... is that worth picking up?

[SC22]

Cerebus 1 is a great book to own only 2000 printed and most likely very few still exist from that original print run.

[SC22]

1 hour ago, Wolverinex said:

Do we have a separate Cerebus thread?  I found Cerebus 50-60 in the dollar bin at a local comic shop... is that worth picking up?

I would just to enjoy reading them!!

[PhilipB2k17]

This whole thread is comical, because Hulk #180 is the true first appearance of Wolverine in a published comic book anyway. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 6/2/2017 at 11:35 PM, bronze johnny said:

If your saying that Hulk 180 deserves the respect for Wolverine showing up in the last panel then I agree. Hulk 181 is the definitive first appearance of the Wolverine nevertheless. Defining an appearance requires more than showing up in one panel.

What's the first appearance of Galactus? FF #48? or FF #49?

Everyone agrees it's FF #48, even though he only makes an appearance in the last panel. Just...like...Wolverine in Hulk #180. 

It is absolutely comical to claim Hulk #181 is his first App. It's not. It's just really collectible because it has that iconic cover, and his first full length story. If people want to pay a premium for that, that's great. But stop pretending it's Wolvie's 1st appearance.

Edited June 27, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

I should think a CGC graded Cerebus #1 would command a larger than normal premium for CGC books, simply because there are so many counterfeits out there. Not only that, even the counterfeit(!) Cerebus #1's sell at a high dollar number, because there are so few Cerebus #1's out there.

 

[PhilipB2k17]

The long term prospects of a comic's value are really interesting. I remember when I first started collecting as a kid, the most valuable Comic was Marvel Comics #1. I know that sounds ridiculous now, but it was more valueable that Action #1 and Detective 27. Why? Because Marvel was hot and all the collectors put a premium on anything produced by them, even going back to the Golden age.

I remember thinking, at the time, even though I was just a kid, that it seemed weird that the 1st Appearance of Superman was not the most valuable comic in the world. Obviously, over time, people changed their opinions, and the hobby moved with it. I think that will happen with Hulk #181 eventually too. That comic is in a major bubble. I think it will pop. It's not the first appearance of Wolverine. Its not sustainable. Just like the Marvel Comics #1 bubble popped (relative to the great DC 1st Appearances, and Captain America #1), and like how Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly's bubble popped. And like how Whiz #2's bubble popped as Captain Marvel faded out of memory as a major character.

Wolverine will still be a popular and iconic character for decades. But, Hulk #180 will be more valuable, in the long run, than #181.

Edited June 27, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[THB]

PhillipB2K17. Completed GPA sales show Hulk 180 has been trending down the last three years in comparison to Hulk 181. That being said Cerebus # 1 is a more valuable key in high grade IMO. We are not debating available quantity or desirability.

[Lazyboy]

17 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The long term prospects of a comic's value are really interesting. I remember when I first started collecting as a kid, the most valuable Comic was Marvel Comics #1. I know that sounds ridiculous now, but it was more valueable that Action #1 and Detective 27. Why? Because Marvel was hot and all the collectors put a premium on anything produced by them, even going back to the Golden age.

I remember thinking, at the time, even though I was just a kid, that it seemed weird that the 1st Appearance of Superman was not the most valuable comic in the world. Obviously, over time, people changed their opinions, and the hobby moved with it. I think that will happen with Hulk #181 eventually too. That comic is in a major bubble. I think it will pop. It's not the first appearance of Wolverine. Its not sustainable. Just like the Marvel Comics #1 bubble popped (relative to the great DC 1st Appearances, and Captain America #1), and like how Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly's bubble popped. And like how Whiz #2's bubble popped as Captain Marvel faded out of memory as a major character.

Wolverine will still be a popular and iconic character for decades. But, Hulk #180 will be more valuable, in the long run, than #181.

Keep dreaming. Wolverine is easily the biggest character with a lame teaser appearance in an issue before his full appearance. He is not comparable to characters who made their debuts in stories in which they were the feature.

There's a reason why Hulk 181 is the issue used when Marvel has reprinted key issues in a standalone format, like this or this. Even Marvel isn't dumb enough to reprint Hulk 180 by itself and try to sell it as Wolverine's first appearance.

[PhilipB2k17]

18 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Keep dreaming. Wolverine is easily the biggest character with a lame teaser appearance in an issue before his full appearance. He is not comparable to characters who made their debuts in stories in which they were the feature.

There's a reason why Hulk 181 is the issue used when Marvel has reprinted key issues in a standalone format, like this or this. Even Marvel isn't dumb enough to reprint Hulk 180 by itself and try to sell it as Wolverine's first appearance.

We'll see. I pointed out the 1st Appearance of Galactus being exactly the same - a one panel cameo - in FF #48. Everyone on Planet Earth regards that as his 1st Appearance, not the first full length story in which  he was featured,  FF #49. People who have spent a gazillion dollars on IH #181 have a vested interest in propping up that book as the more valuable one. But, it's not Wolvy's 1st appearance. Indeed, because of that cockamamie discrepancy, the whole Comics collecting industry had to start differentiating between a 1st cameo, and a 1st full appearance. Just to keep the IH #181 fanboys from having a meltdown.

I'm just telling you that eventually, maybe 20 or 30 years from now - but eventually - Hulk #180 will be more valuable. And I say this as a fan of Wolverine, who used to own a copy of #IH 181. I bought it back in the early 1980's. But, even then, I wondered why it was considered his 1st appearance, when it was clearly not.

Here's what will happen. IH #181 has become too expensive for the average collector to obtain in any kind of a decent grade. So, they started bidding up #182. Now, people are realizing that the true 1st app is #180, and it's starting to be bid up too. Its far more obtainable in a decent grade. Eventually it will reach a critical mass, and it will flip. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, THB said:

PhillipB2K17. Completed GPA sales show Hulk 180 has been trending down the last three years in comparison to Hulk 181. That being said Cerebus # 1 is a more valuable key in high grade IMO. We are not debating available quantity or desirability.

Great. Buy up as many IH #180's as you can now, before they spike again. I'm sure all the people who bought up Action #1 and Detective #27 30 years ago at a discount are very happy they did. And all the people who paid a big premium for Marvel Comics #1 are not as happy.

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, THB said:

PhillipB2K17. Completed GPA sales show Hulk 180 has been trending down the last three years in comparison to Hulk 181. That being said Cerebus # 1 is a more valuable key in high grade IMO. We are not debating available quantity or desirability.

I agree with you on Cerebus #1. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

I think time will tell and believe it's too soon to tell how it will shake out...

I do agree that something will happen with IH 180-182 and prices etc of which will hold; I think the best analogy is the FF 48-50, and based on that whichever you'd rather have of those is the way it'll shake out; even though it's only 6 years earlier. 

Just an observation  

I do think that Wolverine is more valued than Silver Surfer; but if 2.0's of IH 181 end up being $200-$250 like FF 48          HeAdS WiLl RoLl  hahhah