Will non-key issues become nearly worthless??

[jools&jim]

 

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

[1Cool]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

I always thought the art was fine in those issues it was the terrible stories that drove me away.

[Dale Roberts]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

+1

 

always thought he made Superman look to old tho

 

I actually sell quite a bit of Superman/Superboy/Lois/Jimmy too.

[chrisco37]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

+1

 

always thought he made Superman look to old tho

 

I actually sell quite a bit of Superman/Superboy/Lois/Jimmy too.

 

Is the one where Jimmy Olsen marries the gorilla a key, semi-key, non-key?

[1Cool]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

 

+1

 

always thought he made Superman look to old tho

 

I actually sell quite a bit of Superman/Superboy/Lois/Jimmy too.

 

Is the one where Jimmy Olsen marries the gorilla a key, semi-key, non-key?

I'm thinking just plain frea-key.

[sakaridis]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

Hopefully not before I complete my sets.

 

At my current rate, I need about 4-5 years at least, so yeah, not before 2020 would be OK with me.

 

 

 

[Illustrious]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

 

+1

 

always thought he made Superman look to old tho

 

I actually sell quite a bit of Superman/Superboy/Lois/Jimmy too.

 

Is the one where Jimmy Olsen marries the gorilla a key, semi-key, non-key?

I'm thinking just plain frea-key.

 

[kav]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

 

Never. They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring. Horribly written. It was mind boggling that any company would allow such untalented people to churn out terrible stories for a flagship character for decades that had so much merchandising power. They were just begging for Marvel to invent something much better in comics, and it finally happened.

 

I am a completionist collector, but I will not touch the Superman titles, or Wonder Woman. Boring, awful stuff.

Curt Swan stiff? You must be tripping. He drew the most natural poses of ANY comic artist. Period. Lumping him with Wayne Boring? WTF? OK John Romita was bad because Ayers was bad. DER. The stories were goofy but were imaginative as hell. Yeah Wonder Woman was awful that's why the books command such high prices. Please don't touch the superman titles. Please.

[Boboset]

WHEN will SA Superman family books take off?.....

They were sooooo badly done. Stiff art from Curt Swan and Wayne Boring...

Curt Swan...untalented? I hardly think so. But even if you do, his version of Superman (and the whole extended cast, for that matter) remains the definitive one for several generations of fans, and that's got to count for something.

 

It's also important to consider the sheer volume of work (interiors and covers) he produced during his 50-year career. Here's Denny O'Neil's take:

 

"Swan was the best, a quiet man and not much noticed and consequently underrated because he never caused a fuss; he simply delivered anything an editor asked for, met any challenge and did it with the reliability of the tides."

And seriously...how many "hot" modern artists (who can barely draw feet) are able to handle something as essential as facial expressions as deftly as this?

 

 

A flashy virtuoso he wasn't. But he was a stalwart, a journeyman, and a damn good visual storyteller.

 

Not everyone's cuppa, maybe, but certainly not "untalented".

 

 

+1

 

always thought he made Superman look to old tho

 

I actually sell quite a bit of Superman/Superboy/Lois/Jimmy too.

 

I agree.

 

Not a fan of the Leno chin either.

[kav]

Too old? Because he was a good enough artist to draw an actual person as opposed to the standard clone age of every other super hero? Every hero in the Marvel Universe is pretty much drawn the exact same age. I'd call this a plus for Swan's work.

[dupont2005]

I don't think most 70's-current non key issues could possibly be any more worthless than they already are. For 60's stuff I'm willing to bet there will be some market correction as online sales and especially auctions replace sticker prices in brick and mortars, and yes, I think prices on non keys will drop. I don't think they will be "worthless" though. Just affordable.

 

 

I also think highest graded keys are going to eventually see a drop in price when people realize paying several multiples more for a grade bump that is impossible to detect by even the most trained eye is stupid.

 

And like all things, there will be fluctuations in prices on keys, things that may not be considered a key now may be considered a key later, and things that are considered keys now may not be considered keys later.

[kav]

Can you think of one key book-eg first app that has dropped in value? Besides Howard the Duck or modern flash in the pans.

[1Cool]

Can you think of one key book-eg first app that has dropped in value? Besides Howard the Duck or modern flash in the pans.

 

I think the Hulk 181 in ultra high grade has dropped considerable over the last few years. But I can't think of a major key book that has tanked in VG to VF grade in awhile.

[kav]

yeah for analysis purposes stick to VF-UHG prices are bubble city

I dont think any keys will drop in value in VF

[VintageComics]

Can you think of one key book-eg first app that has dropped in value? Besides Howard the Duck or modern flash in the pans.

 

I think the Hulk 181 in ultra high grade has dropped considerable over the last few years. But I can't think of a major key book that has tanked in VG to VF grade in awhile.

 

Hulk #181 only dropped in the highest grade because the multiples it was selling for were unsustainable. And it has started to climb back up as the bottom end of that market has strengthened.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

Too old? Because he was a good enough artist to draw an actual person as opposed to the standard clone age of every other super hero? Every hero in the Marvel Universe is pretty much drawn the exact same age. I'd call this a plus for Swan's work.

 

Loved Swan's work on Superman and Action Comics.

Loved his work inked by Murphy Anderson.

[kav]

Anyone who says he's 'Wayne Boring' is

[jools&jim]

 

Too old? Because he was a good enough artist to draw an actual person as opposed to the standard clone age of every other super hero? Every hero in the Marvel Universe is pretty much drawn the exact same age. I'd call this a plus for Swan's work.

Loved Swan's work on Superman and Action Comics.

Loved his work inked by Murphy Anderson.

Not to keep going too far off-topic with this Swan discussion, but...regarding the age issue:

 

At least during the 1970s (a decade dominated by Swan's art on the character), Superman's age was given as 29 (kinda like Jack Benny, who was always 39).

 

Now, just to pick a random (but related*) example of a man in his late 20s from (roughly) the era which produced both Superman and Curt Swan, here's a picture of Charles Atlas, age 28 or so, in 1921:

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but young adults in their 20s and early 30s from the pre-WWII era (and for a while thereafter) looked and carried themselves "older" than today's 20 and 30-somethings. So I don't think Swan's Supes is too far off the mark, given that Swan himself was born in 1920.

 

What's more likely, though (and I'm pretty sure I've read at least one interview where he admits it), is that Swan used George Reeves as a template for his take on the Man of Steel.

 

Reeves was 37 when he first played the character in Superman and the Mole Men in 1951; Swan had worked on the character in the late '40s and early '50s, but really hit his stride during the mid/late '50s and early '60s (i.e., during, and after, Reeves tenure on the "Adventures of Superman" TV series).

 

So in that context Dale's charge that Swan made the character "look too old" makes sense if you consider that he was working from an older model (Reeves) who had brought Superman to a much wider audience, via television, than had ever been reached before...

 

--------------------------------------------------

* Here's what Gerard Jones has to say about Joe Shuster, Supes' first artist, and Charlie Atlas: "When Joe was a little boy, those bodybuilders in tights and trunks in the MacFadden magazines, Atlas chief among them, had given him his first glimpse of the superheroic. In his teens Atlas's ads had first shown him a strongman as an enemy of bullies, and the very first published Superman story had included his visual joke on those ads. Superman was a fantasy of Charles Atlas in more ways than one... "

 

[kav]

I read 'Curt Swan a Life in Comics' and he made no mention of using Reeves as a template, just that he aged Superman a bit in the interests of realism.

[jools&jim]

 

I read 'Curt Swan a Life in Comics' and he made no mention of using Reeves as a template, just that he aged Superman a bit in the interests of realism.

 

Yeah, I read that, too. Don't think it was in there. Maybe an old Alter Ego or something similar? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Still, I think it makes sense...