Open Letter to CGC

[dupont2005]

I'm pretty sure I had a fake Erik Larsen sig on an early Savage Dragon comic. Either that or he was just off on that one. It happens to me sometimes when signing a credit card receipt so it's possible it happens to the pros too. I'm thinking it was probably some kids practice run of forgery way back in the early 90's when an unwitnessed Larsen sig on Savage Dragon #2 would actually be worth something.

[HighStakesComics]

I think it's terrific. It will be nice to see what the Kirbys trade for now that they will be more than a mere footnote.

[Buzzetta]

Are you not entertained !?!?!?! Is this not why you are here?!?!?!?!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I also don't understand why people are already starting to write CGCs eulogy. CBCS has been around for 3 months.

There are about TEN guys, maybe twelve tops, that have dabbled in Comics for around forty( 40 - not a typo) years or more.

 

Maybe about another five tops that don't have the years of the military "time-in-grade", but nonetheless reached the upper echelons of comic dealer/collector/enthusiast enough to know what I am discussing tongue-in-cheek here.

 

These professional comic folks have seen all cycles of the boom, busts, and general malaise throughout comics AND other markets, including the Stock market. They know when the winds of change have struck.

 

Discussing at a CGC booth anywhere/worldwide would solve nothing. It is the TOP BRASS that has to make any and all changes. They have repeatedly refused to do so. The winds of change gathered steam.

 

Many CGC Forumite has been chased out of here. In my case, for no good reason

other than those here can't stand the brutal honesty I gladly give.

 

These same CGCers then cry-the-blues because they:

 

1) can't sell on the Forum only Threads;

2) cry about eBay when they should make that system work FOR them instead of against them;

3) cry about then CHARGE customers PayPal fees( the ultimate sign of non-professionalism);

4) too lazy to use the SEARCH function; so we have to endure pages of drivel on beaten-to-death topics;

 

and I am being lazy here now: too many other reasons far beyond this post/topic to impress upon.

 

Until the $40 per month in Adsense or whatever pays a part of this Forum dries up( and if you did not read my post about this two years ago, your loss), THEN they will start some sort of Membership fee that I proposed years ago.

 

AT THAT POINT the "professional comics folks" have a chance to help CGC salvage a well-intended enterprise; much depending on the subsequent steps CGC themselves decide to undertake.

 

95% of the people on here read/buy/sell whatever comics. A select few have reached the pinnacle of this Hobby. Those who know just plain know; the junior mechanic in the Auto shop has no clue what the Master knows; he will get there, but not overnight. It is unwise for that junior mechanic to criticize the master certified machine-tested Degreed mechanic.

 

There are NEW technologies in use by the FBI and other law enforcement groups due to the fraud and thefts in Fine Arts. The only one I am willing to share is the perfecting the infra-red screening to detect, you guessed it: color touch. You guys think that comics are the only art form that gets the sharpie pen dots???

 

Time to re-evaluate your entire positions in this has-been-in-decline Hobby for the past five years. I know I have repositioned myself to a still-profitable business model, and that is WITHOUT eBay. But many here will not be able to do that.

 

Hope this helps in some way

 

CAL who has many methods of earning the coin( pun intended)

 

I agree with quite a bit of this.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I also don't understand why people are already starting to write CGCs eulogy. CBCS has been around for 3 months.

There are about TEN guys, maybe twelve tops, that have dabbled in Comics for around forty( 40 - not a typo) years or more.

 

Maybe about another five tops that don't have the years of the military "time-in-grade", but nonetheless reached the upper echelons of comic dealer/collector/enthusiast enough to know what I am discussing tongue-in-cheek here.

 

These professional comic folks have seen all cycles of the boom, busts, and general malaise throughout comics AND other markets, including the Stock market. They know when the winds of change have struck.

 

Discussing at a CGC booth anywhere/worldwide would solve nothing. It is the TOP BRASS that has to make any and all changes. They have repeatedly refused to do so. The winds of change gathered steam.

 

Many CGC Forumite has been chased out of here. In my case, for no good reason

other than those here can't stand the brutal honesty I gladly give.

 

These same CGCers then cry-the-blues because they:

 

1) can't sell on the Forum only Threads;

2) cry about eBay when they should make that system work FOR them instead of against them;

3) cry about then CHARGE customers PayPal fees( the ultimate sign of non-professionalism);

4) too lazy to use the SEARCH function; so we have to endure pages of drivel on beaten-to-death topics;

 

and I am being lazy here now: too many other reasons far beyond this post/topic to impress upon.

 

Until the $40 per month in Adsense or whatever pays a part of this Forum dries up( and if you did not read my post about this two years ago, your loss), THEN they will start some sort of Membership fee that I proposed years ago.

 

AT THAT POINT the "professional comics folks" have a chance to help CGC salvage a well-intended enterprise; much depending on the subsequent steps CGC themselves decide to undertake.

 

95% of the people on here read/buy/sell whatever comics. A select few have reached the pinnacle of this Hobby. Those who know just plain know; the junior mechanic in the Auto shop has no clue what the Master knows; he will get there, but not overnight. It is unwise for that junior mechanic to criticize the master certified machine-tested Degreed mechanic.

 

There are NEW technologies in use by the FBI and other law enforcement groups due to the fraud and thefts in Fine Arts. The only one I am willing to share is the perfecting the infra-red screening to detect, you guessed it: color touch. You guys think that comics are the only art form that gets the sharpie pen dots???

 

Time to re-evaluate your entire positions in this has-been-in-decline Hobby for the past five years. I know I have repositioned myself to a still-profitable business model, and that is WITHOUT eBay. But many here will not be able to do that.

 

Hope this helps in some way

 

CAL who has many methods of earning the coin( pun intended)

 

I agree with quite a bit of this. :golf clap:

 

I get Cal's comment, but is it a response to my comment?

[bababooey]

I also don't understand why people are already starting to write CGCs eulogy. CBCS has been around for 3 months.

There are about TEN guys, maybe twelve tops, that have dabbled in Comics for around forty( 40 - not a typo) years or more.

 

Maybe about another five tops that don't have the years of the military "time-in-grade", but nonetheless reached the upper echelons of comic dealer/collector/enthusiast enough to know what I am discussing tongue-in-cheek here.

 

These professional comic folks have seen all cycles of the boom, busts, and general malaise throughout comics AND other markets, including the Stock market. They know when the winds of change have struck.

 

Discussing at a CGC booth anywhere/worldwide would solve nothing. It is the TOP BRASS that has to make any and all changes. They have repeatedly refused to do so. The winds of change gathered steam.

 

Many CGC Forumite has been chased out of here. In my case, for no good reason

other than those here can't stand the brutal honesty I gladly give.

 

These same CGCers then cry-the-blues because they:

 

1) can't sell on the Forum only Threads;

2) cry about eBay when they should make that system work FOR them instead of against them;

3) cry about then CHARGE customers PayPal fees( the ultimate sign of non-professionalism);

4) too lazy to use the SEARCH function; so we have to endure pages of drivel on beaten-to-death topics;

 

and I am being lazy here now: too many other reasons far beyond this post/topic to impress upon.

 

Until the $40 per month in Adsense or whatever pays a part of this Forum dries up( and if you did not read my post about this two years ago, your loss), THEN they will start some sort of Membership fee that I proposed years ago.

 

AT THAT POINT the "professional comics folks" have a chance to help CGC salvage a well-intended enterprise; much depending on the subsequent steps CGC themselves decide to undertake.

 

95% of the people on here read/buy/sell whatever comics. A select few have reached the pinnacle of this Hobby. Those who know just plain know; the junior mechanic in the Auto shop has no clue what the Master knows; he will get there, but not overnight. It is unwise for that junior mechanic to criticize the master certified machine-tested Degreed mechanic.

 

There are NEW technologies in use by the FBI and other law enforcement groups due to the fraud and thefts in Fine Arts. The only one I am willing to share is the perfecting the infra-red screening to detect, you guessed it: color touch. You guys think that comics are the only art form that gets the sharpie pen dots???

 

Time to re-evaluate your entire positions in this has-been-in-decline Hobby for the past five years. I know I have repositioned myself to a still-profitable business model, and that is WITHOUT eBay. But many here will not be able to do that.

 

Hope this helps in some way

 

CAL who has many methods of earning the coin( pun intended)

 

I agree with quite a bit of this. :golf clap:

 

I get Cal's comment, but is it a response to my comment?

Yup!

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

[mschmidt]

 

There is now also a service coming that would allow previously signed books to have the signatures authenticated and then graded accordingly.

They've needed this for a long time. I thought the claim was it couldn't be done.

 

No, CGC doesn't want to do it because it's a idea. There was a big discussion in the SS room about this previously:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7972986#Post7972986

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

I was speaking to new CFO and Harshen at San Diego. After San Diego I spoke with Mike for over an hour on the phone. No emotion, just dollars/cents issues. What I felt I would do to if I was a competitor. Now to be fair the "other company" got my input also but frankly has repeated the same mistakes they made the first time. That I DO NOT understand one bit.

 

Gave CGC plenty of feedback.

 

That rollback of modern to 1975 was something I told them to do based on dollar/cents costs of bronze age submissions. Not that I need to toot my own horn but that change did not come only because of CBCS.

 

I discussed a lot of business issues with them. I told them accounting had to be cleaned up on the payment of invoices. I still feel that $5 Service charges per invoice is nickel/dime. They are working on the accounting, I am not sure about the service charge.

 

I encouraged CGC to meet with other submitters who use their services because frankly I do not have the same business needs as everybody who uses them. And frankly both CBCS and CGC have not adopted this when it comes to getting feedback/input from the people who sell their product.

 

 

 

 

Both companies have talked to me about improvements/issues/new ideas as well.

[passion4comics]

Signature verification as said before has been done for years. I vaguely remember the software really taking off in 2002, but the bigger the authentic pool the more likely the accuracy. If you have 500 versions of a Stan Lee signature, chances are high that a fake will be spotted.

 

What they should do for computer verified signatures is place the % of accuracy on the label. If it passes with an 86% then the label should say 86%. What will be (pulling from another area) the burden of proof? 51%? If it looks like it's real, then it is?

 

The difference between a human authenticator and a computer is that the human is looking for nuances that the forger would have based his forgery on. A computer doesn't care. It's looking for everything.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

 

There is now also a service coming that would allow previously signed books to have the signatures authenticated and then graded accordingly.

They've needed this for a long time. I thought the claim was it couldn't be done.

 

No, CGC doesn't want to do it because it's a idea. There was a big discussion in the SS room about this previously:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7972986#Post7972986

 

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I also don't understand why people are already starting to write CGCs eulogy. CBCS has been around for 3 months.

There are about TEN guys, maybe twelve tops, that have dabbled in Comics for around forty( 40 - not a typo) years or more.

 

Maybe about another five tops that don't have the years of the military "time-in-grade", but nonetheless reached the upper echelons of comic dealer/collector/enthusiast enough to know what I am discussing tongue-in-cheek here.

 

These professional comic folks have seen all cycles of the boom, busts, and general malaise throughout comics AND other markets, including the Stock market. They know when the winds of change have struck.

 

Discussing at a CGC booth anywhere/worldwide would solve nothing. It is the TOP BRASS that has to make any and all changes. They have repeatedly refused to do so. The winds of change gathered steam.

 

Many CGC Forumite has been chased out of here. In my case, for no good reason

other than those here can't stand the brutal honesty I gladly give.

 

These same CGCers then cry-the-blues because they:

 

1) can't sell on the Forum only Threads;

2) cry about eBay when they should make that system work FOR them instead of against them;

3) cry about then CHARGE customers PayPal fees( the ultimate sign of non-professionalism);

4) too lazy to use the SEARCH function; so we have to endure pages of drivel on beaten-to-death topics;

 

and I am being lazy here now: too many other reasons far beyond this post/topic to impress upon.

 

Until the $40 per month in Adsense or whatever pays a part of this Forum dries up( and if you did not read my post about this two years ago, your loss), THEN they will start some sort of Membership fee that I proposed years ago.

 

AT THAT POINT the "professional comics folks" have a chance to help CGC salvage a well-intended enterprise; much depending on the subsequent steps CGC themselves decide to undertake.

 

95% of the people on here read/buy/sell whatever comics. A select few have reached the pinnacle of this Hobby. Those who know just plain know; the junior mechanic in the Auto shop has no clue what the Master knows; he will get there, but not overnight. It is unwise for that junior mechanic to criticize the master certified machine-tested Degreed mechanic.

 

There are NEW technologies in use by the FBI and other law enforcement groups due to the fraud and thefts in Fine Arts. The only one I am willing to share is the perfecting the infra-red screening to detect, you guessed it: color touch. You guys think that comics are the only art form that gets the sharpie pen dots???

 

Time to re-evaluate your entire positions in this has-been-in-decline Hobby for the past five years. I know I have repositioned myself to a still-profitable business model, and that is WITHOUT eBay. But many here will not be able to do that.

 

Hope this helps in some way

 

CAL who has many methods of earning the coin( pun intended)

 

I agree with quite a bit of this. :golf clap:

 

I get Cal's comment, but is it a response to my comment?

Yup!

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

Can you explain it? I'm a bit slow I guess…

[paul747]

All this back and forth about CBCS VS CGC. Has anyone analyzed the grading? It seems that instantly people are using comparative pricing, grade for grade with the CGC's price history. I for one am not sold on that yet. I have noticed a ton of bronze 9.9's being handed out like candy. I don't know if it's OCD or something else but I would not buy a CBCS slab at this point in my collection. I would need more history and proof before I even considered it.

 

The bottom line is that it should be about the grading FIRST ! services, grader notes and other customer service issues are nice but secondary to trust in the company. I just don't beleve than can happen in three months.

 

CGC has made some mistakes like any company does but for the most part they are trusted .

[paul747]

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

[stanley1883]

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

 

 

My point is that this statement is false as I see it. If it were true, some changes would have been addressed a long time ago. The fact is that CBCS is gaining traction and that is whats driving the change. If they cared they would have addressed the feedback that they have been getting for years. Note I said addressed, not necessarily implemented.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

 

 

My point is that this statement is false as I see it. If it were true, some changes would have been addressed a long time ago. The fact is that CBCS is gaining traction and that is whats driving the change. If they cared they would have addressed the feedback that they have been getting for years. Note I said addressed, not necessarily implemented.

 

+ 1

[Bomber-Bob]

Okay, CGC is implementing changes for the better. Instead of being happy, many Boardies are complaining because of the motivation behind the changes. I don't understand the complaints. Do you think McDonald's is giving away free coffee because they like us ? Does Sears have a sale because they want to reward us ? Ever hear of 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'. Embrace the changes, be happy.

[HighStakesComics]

 

There is now also a service coming that would allow previously signed books to have the signatures authenticated and then graded accordingly.

They've needed this for a long time. I thought the claim was it couldn't be done.

 

No, CGC doesn't want to do it because it's a idea. There was a big discussion in the SS room about this previously:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7972986#Post7972986

 

 

This technology has been used to verify signatures from Babe Ruth to Abraham Lincoln to James Douglas Morrison. IMHO this should be a different tier than the SS Series, because the signatures are not personally witnessed. If you don't like or trust the technology no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy the books graded and verified in this manner. I just don't think there is anything wrong with putting it on the menu.

[paul747]

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

 

 

My point is that this statement is false as I see it. If it were true, some changes would have been addressed a long time ago. The fact is that CBCS is gaining traction and that is whats driving the change. If they cared they would have addressed the feedback that they have been getting for years. Note I said addressed, not necessarily implemented.

 

+ 1

 

They did not have to..... Now they will try to stay relevant. Competition makes companies better period. It does not matter when or if they cared in the past, moving forward it will make them better and if you are sitting on a ton of CGC slabs this is good news.

 

Yes, i see more slabs being graded but check the sold button on eBay and compare.

 

Has anyone cracked some CBCS slabs and sent them to CGC? How's the grading compare? That's what I want to see someone post about... Not complaining about past actions.

 

Bottom line- let's see the grading comparison first. And if the books are not selling like CGC books do, the fast start will stall very quickly.

The ones that have sold a large percentage have been auctions and some sparkle city.

111,000 cgc books listed cgc-------380 CBCS little way to go to infiltrate the leader.

[Illustrious]

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

 

 

My point is that this statement is false as I see it. If it were true, some changes would have been addressed a long time ago. The fact is that CBCS is gaining traction and that is whats driving the change. If they cared they would have addressed the feedback that they have been getting for years. Note I said addressed, not necessarily implemented.

 

+ 1

 

+2

[paul747]

I b

Also...if CGC is adding services and adapting new ideas because of the other company how Is that a bad thing? Does it really matter whether it was first or not? The fact is that they care and are looking for feedback and ways to stay relevant and on top. That's business 101 !

 

For whatever reason if CGC just sat back and did not adapt to the competition then I would say maybe there could be a problem.

 

 

My point is that this statement is false as I see it. If it were true, some changes would have been addressed a long time ago. The fact is that CBCS is gaining traction and that is whats driving the change. If they cared they would have addressed the feedback that they have been getting for years. Note I said addressed, not necessarily implemented.

 

+ 1

 

+2

I bet you guys would drive 20 miles to get to a gas station that had a five cents a gallon sale...