1st Teen Titans 3 3

[sfcityduck]

I think the honest thing to do when claiming first appearance status ... is to explain the applicable factors, as ... comics.org does.

 

Really? Where do they do that?

 

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation on this thread and not a lot of clarification.

 

Did you go to comics.org? If you had, you'd have gotten the clarification. Here it is. Comics.org's listing for BB 54 clarifies its relationship to the Teen Titans with the following:

 

"Indexer Notes

"Kid Flash, Robin and Aqualad - later to become the Teen Titans."

 

I did go to comics.org. There are no stated "factors" for what constitutes a first appearance. As I said, a lot of misinformation on this thread. Not the least of which the claim that wikis are authoritative, something my middle school kid knows is not the case (he'll get down graded for citing wikis as sources in his papers).

[sfcityduck]

 

And your definition of "team," by the way, makes Green Lantern-Green Arrow an official superhero team, along with Superman-Flash. So, no, I don't need definitions to be formulaic. But they do need to be consistent. Your definition of a team is so loose it would include any team-up that occurs more than once. If you stand by that, fine, but people should know that's what you mean when you say the Teen Titans appear in BB 54.

 

What the heck is an "official" superhero team? Do they get a membership badge? Or is the title of a comic or continuing series enough? By any measure, Green Lantern-Green Arrow was an official superhero team. Have you heard of GL-GA 76? Read the title. It is worth money for a reason.

 

Superman-Flash did not have a steady series of adventures, they had very sporadic cross-overs.

 

Superman-Batman, on the other hand, did have a monthly series of adventures starting with World's Finest 71 (again a "key" worth a premium). Of course, the comic collecting community recognizes Superman 76 and World's Finest 94 as notable for telling the origin of the Superman-Batman team (and, hey, check out the cover of WF 94).

 

And I won't even go into Power Man & Iron Fist, etc. at Marvel.

 

Where was the Green Lantern-Green Arrow headquarters again? And where was the headquarters of the Superman-Batman team? Were there lots of membership changes with any of these teams? And how "steady" does a "team"'s adventures need to be for them to be a team? Are you really saying that Superman-Flash would have been magically transformed into an "official" superhero team if they'd gotten a monthly team-up book? What about bi-monthly? What about a mini-series?

 

Most comic-book fans know the difference between a superhero team and an official superhero team. Batman and Robin are a partnership, hero and sidekick. Superman-Batman and Green Lantern-Green Arrow are equal partnerships, "teams" in the generic sense of the word. Two friends who play basketball together regularly are not a basketball team in the same sense that the Knicks are. Green Lantern-Green Arrow is not a superhero team the same way the JLA is. And, yes, sometimes groups have insignia or other signifiers of membership. (Oh, here's wikipedia's list of DC superhero teams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhero_teams_and_groups#DC_Comics. Note that GL-GA and Superman-Batman are nowhere to be found.)

 

And by the way, your erroneous assumption that I haven't read GL 76 aside, it's not worth the money it's worth because it's the first appearance of the GL-GA "team."

 

Again you go to wikipedia? !

 

And now your argument is about "superhero teams" and "official superhero teams"? What are the Defenders (the non-team team)?

 

You are portraying a lot of opinions as facts.

[sfcityduck]

21 for me... And I'm still voting 54. You don't get to 60 without 54. And 60 can never be 54 because 54 did it first.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Agree that that sums it up. And by the same argument and standards, Superman 76 is the first appearance of the Justice League. You can't get to BB 28 without Batman and Superman teaming up, which Superman 76 did first.

 

This kind of "logic" shows the weakness of your argumentation.

[VintageComics]

And now your argument is about "superhero teams" and "official superhero teams"? What are the Defenders (the non-team team)?

 

Agreed. Superman and Batman make up a small portion of the JLA. Meanwhile, the 3 in SC #54 make up a majority AND they appear just 7 issues later in the same mag, referencing their 1st appearance / team up in the previous issue. The ties between #54 and #60 are much closer than Superman #76 and JLA (or any other similar comparisons).

 

I was going to bring up the Defenders. I was never a reader / follower but they did come to mind as another team that wasn't a team in the strict formulaic sense that others were but they are still without a doubt considered a team.

 

 

[JTLarsen]

I think the honest thing to do when claiming first appearance status ... is to explain the applicable factors, as ... comics.org does.

 

Really? Where do they do that?

 

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation on this thread and not a lot of clarification.

 

Did you go to comics.org? If you had, you'd have gotten the clarification. Here it is. Comics.org's listing for BB 54 clarifies its relationship to the Teen Titans with the following:

 

"Indexer Notes

"Kid Flash, Robin and Aqualad - later to become the Teen Titans."

 

I did go to comics.org. There are no stated "factors" for what constitutes a first appearance. As I said, a lot of misinformation on this thread. Not the least of which the claim that wikis are authoritative, something my middle school kid knows is not the case (he'll get down graded for citing wikis as sources in his papers).

 

I never said there were factors for what constitutes a first appearance. I said they explain what factors are relevant to the Teen Titans' first appearance. It lists the three individual superheroes who appear and explains that they later become the Teen Titans.

 

Calling something misinformation does not make it so. Impugning an industry source does not make them un-credible. I'm well aware that it's a wiki. Overstreet is not. In my experience, Overstreet has more errors. The fact that something is a wiki doesn't just address the fact that it could be wrong (as can ANY authority), it tells us that it has mechanisms in place to fix those errors. And calling them a wiki doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Or else by now you'd have shared the BB 54 panel that proves them wrong. Which you haven't.

[JTLarsen]

 

And your definition of "team," by the way, makes Green Lantern-Green Arrow an official superhero team, along with Superman-Flash. So, no, I don't need definitions to be formulaic. But they do need to be consistent. Your definition of a team is so loose it would include any team-up that occurs more than once. If you stand by that, fine, but people should know that's what you mean when you say the Teen Titans appear in BB 54.

 

What the heck is an "official" superhero team? Do they get a membership badge? Or is the title of a comic or continuing series enough? By any measure, Green Lantern-Green Arrow was an official superhero team. Have you heard of GL-GA 76? Read the title. It is worth money for a reason.

 

Superman-Flash did not have a steady series of adventures, they had very sporadic cross-overs.

 

Superman-Batman, on the other hand, did have a monthly series of adventures starting with World's Finest 71 (again a "key" worth a premium). Of course, the comic collecting community recognizes Superman 76 and World's Finest 94 as notable for telling the origin of the Superman-Batman team (and, hey, check out the cover of WF 94).

 

And I won't even go into Power Man & Iron Fist, etc. at Marvel.

 

Where was the Green Lantern-Green Arrow headquarters again? And where was the headquarters of the Superman-Batman team? Were there lots of membership changes with any of these teams? And how "steady" does a "team"'s adventures need to be for them to be a team? Are you really saying that Superman-Flash would have been magically transformed into an "official" superhero team if they'd gotten a monthly team-up book? What about bi-monthly? What about a mini-series?

 

Most comic-book fans know the difference between a superhero team and an official superhero team. Batman and Robin are a partnership, hero and sidekick. Superman-Batman and Green Lantern-Green Arrow are equal partnerships, "teams" in the generic sense of the word. Two friends who play basketball together regularly are not a basketball team in the same sense that the Knicks are. Green Lantern-Green Arrow is not a superhero team the same way the JLA is. And, yes, sometimes groups have insignia or other signifiers of membership. (Oh, here's wikipedia's list of DC superhero teams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhero_teams_and_groups#DC_Comics. Note that GL-GA and Superman-Batman are nowhere to be found.)

 

And by the way, your erroneous assumption that I haven't read GL 76 aside, it's not worth the money it's worth because it's the first appearance of the GL-GA "team."

 

Again you go to wikipedia? !

 

And now your argument is about "superhero teams" and "official superhero teams"? What are the Defenders (the non-team team)?

 

You are portraying a lot of opinions as facts.

 

Nope. Just demonstrating how out of the mainstream your opinions are about what constitutes a superhero team. If you want to find an "authoritative" list of superhero teams that includes every superhero team-up that's occurred more than once, feel free. You can post it next to that BB 54 panel in which the Teen Titans form.

 

Green Lantern-Green Arrow Assemble!

[JTLarsen]

21 for me... And I'm still voting 54. You don't get to 60 without 54. And 60 can never be 54 because 54 did it first.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Agree that that sums it up. And by the same argument and standards, Superman 76 is the first appearance of the Justice League. You can't get to BB 28 without Batman and Superman teaming up, which Superman 76 did first.

 

This kind of "logic" shows the weakness of your argumentation.

 

Good. Because it's your logic. That's the point of making this weak argument: It's the same as yours.

[steveinthecity]

I think the honest thing to do when claiming first appearance status ... is to explain the applicable factors, as ... comics.org does.

 

Really? Where do they do that?

 

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation on this thread and not a lot of clarification.

 

Did you go to comics.org? If you had, you'd have gotten the clarification. Here it is. Comics.org's listing for BB 54 clarifies its relationship to the Teen Titans with the following:

 

"Indexer Notes

"Kid Flash, Robin and Aqualad - later to become the Teen Titans."

 

I did go to comics.org. There are no stated "factors" for what constitutes a first appearance. As I said, a lot of misinformation on this thread. Not the least of which the claim that wikis are authoritative, something my middle school kid knows is not the case (he'll get down graded for citing wikis as sources in his papers).

 

I never said there were factors for what constitutes a first appearance. I said they explain what factors are relevant to the Teen Titans' first appearance. It lists the three individual superheroes who appear and explains that they later become the Teen Titans.

 

Calling something misinformation does not make it so. Impugning an industry source does not make them un-credible. I'm well aware that it's a wiki. Overstreet is not. In my experience, Overstreet has more errors. The fact that something is a wiki doesn't just address the fact that it could be wrong (as can ANY authority), it tells us that it has mechanisms in place to fix those errors. And calling them a wiki doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Or else by now you'd have shared the BB 54 panel that proves them wrong. Which you haven't.

My apologies if I'm being dense, but I don't follow what the bolded statements mean. What exactly explains the relevant factors of TT's first appearance? The second bolded "explains" loses me, too. There's no explanation, just a statement.

[bb8]

We need a gnat circumcision gif up in here.

[Zonker]

Sure enough, just as promised, the very next issue introduced another new team. Has everyone already stocked up on the first appearance of the Metal Men / Atom team in B&B #55?

 

[Lazyboy]

Sure enough, just as promised, the very next issue introduced another new team. Has everyone already stocked up on the first appearance of the Metal Men / Atom team in B&B #55?

 

 

Everyone with even half a brain already realized that DC was regularly using "team" very loosely at that point in time.

 

What's really funny is that the Atom's "Hope we meet again soon!" is much more than we got at the end of 54.

[passion4comics]

Whoever posts on page 100 has to watch Human Centipede 2....

[50 CENT LONG BOX]

I'm following to see if the brain-trust in this thread will solve the deficit problem, or the mystery known as Donald Trump's hair

[RockMyAmadeus]

21 for me... And I'm still voting 54. You don't get to 60 without 54. And 60 can never be 54 because 54 did it first.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Agree that that sums it up. And by the same argument and standards, Superman 76 is the first appearance of the Justice League. You can't get to BB 28 without Batman and Superman teaming up, which Superman 76 did first.

 

No.

[RockMyAmadeus]

21 for me... And I'm still voting 54. You don't get to 60 without 54. And 60 can never be 54 because 54 did it first.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Agree that that sums it up. And by the same argument and standards, Superman 76 is the first appearance of the Justice League. You can't get to BB 28 without Batman and Superman teaming up, which Superman 76 did first.

 

This kind of "logic" shows the weakness of your argumentation.

 

Good. Because it's your logic. That's the point of making this weak argument: It's the same as yours.

 

No.

[nearmint]

Sure enough, just as promised, the very next issue introduced another new team. Has everyone already stocked up on the first appearance of the Metal Men / Atom team in B&B #55?

 

 

If there were hundreds of appearances afterward of the Metal Men/Atom team, then yes, that would be their first appearance.

[Aman619]

Exactly. A perfect Straw Man team up argument appearance.. Not his first sadly.

 

[JTLarsen]

I think the honest thing to do when claiming first appearance status ... is to explain the applicable factors, as ... comics.org does.

 

Really? Where do they do that?

 

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation on this thread and not a lot of clarification.

 

Did you go to comics.org? If you had, you'd have gotten the clarification. Here it is. Comics.org's listing for BB 54 clarifies its relationship to the Teen Titans with the following:

 

"Indexer Notes

"Kid Flash, Robin and Aqualad - later to become the Teen Titans."

 

I did go to comics.org. There are no stated "factors" for what constitutes a first appearance. As I said, a lot of misinformation on this thread. Not the least of which the claim that wikis are authoritative, something my middle school kid knows is not the case (he'll get down graded for citing wikis as sources in his papers).

 

I never said there were factors for what constitutes a first appearance. I said they explain what factors are relevant to the Teen Titans' first appearance. It lists the three individual superheroes who appear and explains that they later become the Teen Titans.

 

Calling something misinformation does not make it so. Impugning an industry source does not make them un-credible. I'm well aware that it's a wiki. Overstreet is not. In my experience, Overstreet has more errors. The fact that something is a wiki doesn't just address the fact that it could be wrong (as can ANY authority), it tells us that it has mechanisms in place to fix those errors. And calling them a wiki doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Or else by now you'd have shared the BB 54 panel that proves them wrong. Which you haven't.

My apologies if I'm being dense, but I don't follow what the bolded statements mean. What exactly explains the relevant factors of TT's first appearance? The second bolded "explains" loses me, too. There's no explanation, just a statement.

 

Statements can explain things. "I skipped lunch" is a statement that explains why I'm hungry.

 

"later to appear as the Teen Titans" explains that the three heroes team up in BB54 and, um, later appear as the Teen Titans, which they do many times...starting with BB 60.

[JTLarsen]

Sure enough, just as promised, the very next issue introduced another new team. Has everyone already stocked up on the first appearance of the Metal Men / Atom team in B&B #55?

 

 

Everyone with even half a brain already realized that DC was regularly using "team" very loosely at that point in time.

 

What's really funny is that the Atom's "Hope we meet again soon!" is much more than we got at the end of 54.

 

Actually, I disagree here. Super-smart people who aren't familiar with how DC used different lingo at the time certainly have an understandable excuse for thinking that the words "new team" in BB 54 constituted the introduction of an ACTUAL (or official, etc.) superhero team.

 

Once they've seen the evidence, such as you've helpfully provided, that the phrase was used very loosely to refer even to one-time partnerships, then, however, they should concede that there's no actual evidence in BB 54 of the formation of a superhero team. Some folks, to their credit, have done so--and explained that they consider BB 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans because they have their own personal definitions of "team" or "appearance." Which is fine -- as long as everyone knows what those definitions are.

 

Anyway, thanks for the info!

[JTLarsen]

I'm following to see if the brain-trust in this thread will solve the deficit problem, or the mystery known as Donald Trump's hair

 

Deficits don't matter.