My First "fake" CGC slabbed book

[Tony S]

Bought a ton of books from Tony that Saturday. Small show, but was still fun. Hope you did well. Great guy been buying from him on and off for 20 years since college.

 

Thanks! You make me blush!

 

The show was fun. You bought the most books!

 

[passion4comics]

It may be defacing the comic? Why not print with UV ink the serial of the comic being slabbed on the rear of the book.

 

1- You can’t see it under normal light

2- You can see the crack, press, resub history on the book if there are multiple serials

3- Anyone can check the serial then use a black light to see if they match

 

#2 may hurt CGC with the CPR business.

 

If the guy would have used a better printer, the banding would not have happened. I popped out a Flash 123 extensive resto and was surprised that the first book I ever cracked out only one stud looked tampered. Now when I take a book back from a buyer I have to use original high rez scans to make sure every tick and fray is where it's supposed to be before issuing a refund.

 

[Muaythai607]

do you think we could do some detective work and pinpoint the culprit or person doing this... I don't think it would be too hard to find out??

 

all you have to do is find out the owner of the original 9.2 captain America. that is most likely the person. since he swapped the labels..

[passion4comics]

If I had to guess, it would be someone entrenched in the hobby and probably already questionable. Someone known to crack out tons of slabs so that some of them would be pristine and ready for re-sealing. Probably using EBay to dump the tampered slabs under multiple accounts. That would be my first guess to narrow down if it is an organized operation.

[Tony S]

It may be defacing the comic? Why not print with UV ink the serial of the comic being slabbed on the rear of the book.

 

1- You can’t see it under normal light

2- You can see the crack, press, resub history on the book if there are multiple serials

3- Anyone can check the serial then use a black light to see if they match

 

#2 may hurt CGC with the CPR business.

 

If the guy would have used a better printer, the banding would not have happened. I popped out a Flash 123 extensive resto and was surprised that the first book I ever cracked out only one stud looked tampered. Now when I take a book back from a buyer I have to use original high rez scans to make sure every tick and fray is where it's supposed to be before issuing a refund.

 

In the earliest days of CGC there was talk of tagging graded books in some way, most likely a code with ink that only showed up with say a UV light. Collectors and dealers almost universally disliked the idea as it was seen as defacing the book. I have to say that it isn't an idea I'm entirely comfortable with. It just feels wrong. But I admit it is mostly just a "feeling". But enough collectors feel this way that I think it would definitely reduce the number of books sent in for grading if CGC were to and serial numbers with invisible ink to books.

 

The person I got the Cap 100 from bought it on eBay years ago. Not even sure when and certainly doesn't know who. The trail is a bit too cold on this one.

 

 

[dupont2005]

Long term I don't think UV ink on valuable comics is a good idea.

[Jaylam]

Seems like all they should do is seal the top of the inner well with the tag, or are they already doing this now? For a long time now I have felt the slab and the slabbing method should be upgraded to help prevent tampering. There are surely some security measures that would be low cost and effective to do this. Just look how our paper money has changed recently to boost security.

[MetalPSI]

Long term I don't think UV ink on valuable comics is a good idea.

 

+1 No need to deface the book. Seal the slabs, good enough.

[Broke as a Joke]

Find a way to make the slabs unusable after being opened. If you crack the book out that's cool but now you shouldn't be able to "reuse" the holder. Like a piggy bank that has to be smashed to get the money out.

[Muaythai607]

I think you can find out the history though if you check your history log on purchases. and go from there. It would be very valuable to pinpoint the culprit and then publically shame him.

 

It may be defacing the comic? Why not print with UV ink the serial of the comic being slabbed on the rear of the book.

 

1- You cant see it under normal light

2- You can see the crack, press, resub history on the book if there are multiple serials

3- Anyone can check the serial then use a black light to see if they match

 

#2 may hurt CGC with the CPR business.

 

If the guy would have used a better printer, the banding would not have happened. I popped out a Flash 123 extensive resto and was surprised that the first book I ever cracked out only one stud looked tampered. Now when I take a book back from a buyer I have to use original high rez scans to make sure every tick and fray is where it's supposed to be before issuing a refund.

 

In the earliest days of CGC there was talk of tagging graded books in some way, most likely a code with ink that only showed up with say a UV light. Collectors and dealers almost universally disliked the idea as it was seen as defacing the book. I have to say that it isn't an idea I'm entirely comfortable with. It just feels wrong. But I admit it is mostly just a "feeling". But enough collectors feel this way that I think it would definitely reduce the number of books sent in for grading if CGC were to and serial numbers with invisible ink to books.

 

The person I got the Cap 100 from bought it on eBay years ago. Not even sure when and certainly doesn't know who. The trail is a bit too cold on this one.

 

[Muaythai607]

Find a way to make the slabs unusable after being opened. If you crack the book out that's cool but now you shouldn't be able to "reuse" the holder. Like a piggy bank that has to be smashed to get the money out.

 

that was an old label, I'm pretty sure its hard to do it too the new slabs..

[bluechip]

The first time I opened a slab I was struck by how easy it came apart intact and surprised that the label wasn't sealed into the inner well. Breaking open the slab without having to damage the book is good in some ways, but I cannot see any benefit to having the label so easily removed from the inner well. Either of those by themselves is a little problematic. Put the two of them together and it virtually guarantees books will be swapped with better labels and resealed in a slab.

 

Aside from the obvious remedies of making the slabs break open opening and/or sealing the label within the inner well, one other thing that could help mitigate this would be for CGC to keep scans of every book which could be accessed to compare the book in the holder. But I would not expect people to go to that trouble except for the higher dollar books.'

 

 

[CatskillMike]

As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the posts in the slab should change color once they are compromised. I like this idea.

[Mr. Hog]

As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the posts in the slab should change color once they are compromised. I like this idea.

 

And explode... Destroying the book, the reader, and the room he's/she's in.

[Tony S]

As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the posts in the slab should change color once they are compromised. I like this idea.

 

And explode... Destroying the book, the reader, and the room he's/she's in.

 

Well, that would settle any remaining debate on crack/press/resubmit

[Tony S]

NEW INFORMATION:

 

A new twist to this, thanks to a question asked by Muaythai607. Muaythai asked for the label number. When I ran it - which I apologize for not already having done - I found that the certification number is in fact for a restored 9.0 with amateur color touch graded in March 2000.

 

What this means is that it wasn't a label swap with an unrestored Cap 100. The scammer cracked the slab, took out the restored label and then simply created/printed a blue Universal, unrestored label.

 

If you think about it, this is easier to pull off and calls out even more for sealing that label within the inner holder. Because with this scam, the crook doesn't even need to purchase another unrestored copy. Just purchase a restored book, remove the purple label and print up a blue. While your at it give the book a grade bump as well. Sell on eBay at a handsome profit. Then repeat.

 

Perhaps this scam is a bit easier to guard against though. Carry a laptop or smart phone and check the certification number before purchasing. I'll be doing THAT from now on!

 

The label number is 0010149004

 

 

Here is the CGC certification info:

 

Certification Information

Certification #: 0010149004

Title: Captain America

Issue: 100

Issue Date: 4/68

Issue Year: 1968

Publisher: Marvel Comics

Grade: 9.0

Page Quality: CREAM TO OFF-WHITE

Label Text: Restoration includes: moderate amount of color touch on edges of cover.

Grade Date: 03/06/2000

Category: Apparent SA

Art Comments: Stan Lee story

Jack Kirby and Syd Shores cover and art

Key Comments: 1st issue. Black Panther appearance.

Story and numbering continued

from Tales of Suspense #99

[cousin itt]

What's to stop the crook from just cutting open the well that contains the label? Or cutting off the section that contains that label and replacing that section on the corresponding section of a lesser book? Sure, you *might* be able to spot the cut once the book is sealed back inside an outer case. On the other hand, you might not.

[Tony S]

What's to stop the crook from just cutting open the well that contains the label? Or cutting off the section that contains that label and replacing that section on the corresponding section of a lesser book? Sure, you *might* be able to spot the cut once the book is sealed back inside an outer case. On the other hand, you might not.

 

I have collector friends that will take clean slabs that do not bust up in their opening. They like them as displays.

 

If you cut off the bottom of inner holder to slide the book out, then put the inner holder back in the slab, it's pretty obvious that the inner holder is like missing a piece. I believe it would be the same with the top.

 

I don't see that sealing the label inside the inner holder should be something that is hard or particularly expensive for CGC to do. The other grading companies are doing so.

[miraclemet]

it's a funny thing... older slabs (and older labels) have a premium associated with them (or at least it seems this way) since they came from a very tight period of grading and buyers think old label equals a very likely increase in grade with a resub... but those same old slabs are more easily cracked for the nefarious purposes shown by the OP.

 

so buying newer slabs, which are harder to crack without there being evidence, are the way to go?

[cousin itt]

The OP also showed that he could do the same thing (that is, open the outer case without damaging it) with cases with the newer labels. (It's in another thread linked on the first page of this thread.) So, the age of the slab doesn't seem to matter.

 

I think the cheapest and most effective way to go is just the tamper-evident tape. I assume the hologram they use currently on the front of the case is tamper evident (that's why it's there, right, to assure us that the outer case was made and sealed by CGC, right?) So, just take those same CGC hologram stickers and put them around the edge. They could start doing that today. No need to redesign inner wells or change anything else.

 

Of course, it might look kind of ugly if they just used the same stickers they use now on the front of the case along the side, so it might benefit from a redesign of the hologram and a slightly smaller sticker (for the side stickers).