Next CLINK auction is starting to stack up some interesting pieces

[Koa]

As what I hope will be the final post on the subject, I hope both of you guys will wander over to The Water Cooler section of the Boards and contribute to the official all-purpose investment thread there. It was started in 2005 as a thread about the gold price hitting $500 (which is why it retains the "Gold Price Hits $500/oz." name), but quickly morphed into a catch-all thread about the stock market, bonds, gold, real estate and alternate investments.

 

It's one of the longest-running threads on the Boards, with nearly 12,000 posts and close to 700,000 page views. It is considered by many to be the single best thread that's ever been created on the Boards, and we always welcome thoughtful input of all kinds (overtly partisan/political commentary is frowned upon unless it relates directly and relevantly to a financial/economic issue, however). The current roster of contributors include a Hong Kong capitalist, Calgary free marketeer oil man, an uber-Keynesian American, a curmudgeonly Northern Californian, Ivy League bioengineering PhD, NYC hedge fund manager, Toronto goldbug and numerous stock investors across the US and Canada. It's a good mix of people and the conversations are of a higher quality than I've seen in comparable forums.

 

And now, back to OA...

 

Someone who knows what they're reading (in that investment thread) should sort out the core posts on that one

[alxjhnsn]

Re: In defense of Archie OA

Archie is pretty big in my house.

 

The first comic I ever bought my girls was an Archie Digest. They wanted it because they saw their mom on the cover (Veronica).

 

For my eldest's graduation, John Sterling Lucas, long time Katy Keene artist for Archie, recreated that cover and extended it to include my daughter and his version of Katy Keene and her sister (Sis). Sadly, both DeCarlo's had passed away by the time I thought to do that.

 

Later, Dan Parent drew one of my youngest teaching Veronica how to ride while Betty looked on laughing.

 

I even have a DeCarlo cover that features most of the cast in 2008 for <$250 including the overlay. I really like it.

 

Re: Investment

Given that my collection is primarily commissions (significant depreciation when first bought) and pieces by newer artists (Naifeh, Zahler, Cook, Fleecs, etc.), I can't see my collection appreciating or even bringing what I paid for it. As I tell my girls when I buy something new, "I'm squandering your inheritance again."

 

That's fine by me. I buy with what I consider entertainment dollars / gift dollars.

 

 

[Bronty]

Re: In defense of Archie OA

Archie is pretty big in my house.

 

 

 

It doesn't need defending. Its great. But as you said you bought that DeCarlo for 250, which was a perfectly reasonable price then.

 

I have a hard time believing they've suddenly quadrupled but I'm entering broken record territory now so I will shaddup

[alxjhnsn]

I agree. I was pretty surprised at the price. I forgot to mention that.

[Silver Surfer]

my meager winnings. This one will definitely get hung on the wall !

 

 

Fantastic pickup!

 

Easily my favorite of the auction.

 

Nicely done, Greg.

 

Agreed

 

 

Thanks everyone. I am really excited to get it hung on my wall!

 

An epic piece, congrats! Didn't that monster star in a few Bugs Bunny cartoons?

 

[batman_fan]

my meager winnings. This one will definitely get hung on the wall !

 

 

Fantastic pickup!

 

Easily my favorite of the auction.

 

Nicely done, Greg.

 

Agreed

 

 

Thanks everyone. I am really excited to get it hung on my wall!

 

An epic piece, congrats! Didn't that monster star in a few Bugs Bunny cartoons?

 

 

Not only an early Incredible Hulk appearance (pre-hair removal), but also a starring role on Bugs Bunny !

[Koa]

Re: In defense of Archie OA

Archie is pretty big in my house.

 

The first comic I ever bought my girls was an Archie Digest. They wanted it because they saw their mom on the cover (Veronica).

 

For my eldest's graduation, John Sterling Lucas, long time Katy Keene artist for Archie, recreated that cover and extended it to include my daughter and his version of Katy Keene and her sister (Sis). Sadly, both DeCarlo's had passed away by the time I thought to do that.

 

Later, Dan Parent drew one of my youngest teaching Veronica how to ride while Betty looked on laughing.

 

I even have a DeCarlo cover that features most of the cast in 2008 for <$250 including the overlay. I really like it.

 

Re: Investment

Given that my collection is primarily commissions (significant depreciation when first bought) and pieces by newer artists (Naifeh, Zahler, Cook, Fleecs, etc.), I can't see my collection appreciating or even bringing what I paid for it. As I tell my girls when I buy something new, "I'm squandering your inheritance again."

 

That's fine by me. I buy with what I consider entertainment dollars / gift dollars.

 

 

Life is short and being able to have things that bring you joy is important.

[Terry Doyle]

I bought this one off eBay about 6 years ago for (then) about $150. It struck me as being unusual (grunge rock theme?):

 

 

Issue # 16, November 1995.

 

 

[Mephisto]

I bought this one off eBay about 6 years ago for (then) about $150. It struck me as being unusual (grunge rock theme?):

 

 

Issue # 16, November 1995.

 

 

I get more of a flaming vibe from this...not that there's anything wrong with that.

[jbud73]

 

These are impressive figures, no doubt. Though, I know for sure that at least one of those covers was a 2013 deal since the owner showed it to me at the 2013 SDCC when he picked it up from you. More to the point I've been trying to make above, though, is that I know what the buyer paid for this cover, and I doubt that cover has appreciated at all in value since he bought it - the market just hasn't moved all that much over the past 18 months.

 

On a different-but-related note, the DD #186 cover sold for $29.9K in 2010 and just re-sold for $38.2K last month (4 1/2 years later), which amounts to a 28% gain over that timeframe, or 5.6% annualized. I believe it changed hands at least once in the interim, but, doing a pro forma analysis and assuming a 15% vig (no seller's commission plus a 4.5% rebate of the BP) at Heritage, the numbers go down to a paltry 11.3% gain over nearly 5 years or only 2.4% annualized. Just for and giggles, the S&P 500 gained 106% by comparison over the same time period.

 

It shouldn't be surprising that Miller DD (which popped big after the DD #188 sale in 2010), Miller DKR (which popped big after the #3 splash sale in 2011) and McSpidey (which popped big after the McSpidey #1 and ASM #317 and #328 sales in 2012) all showed returns that lagged the overall OA market following their respective big pops higher. It's a combination of mean reversion and the law of large numbers. Or, as the very quotable billionaire Howard Marks put it:

"Most people seem to think that outstanding performance to date presages outstanding future performance. Actually, it's more likely that outstanding performance to date has borrowed from the future and thus presages subpar performance from here on out."

 

I very much like that quote Gene, encapsulates an important sentiment very astutely.

 

[jbud73]

No one wants to read 12,000 posts on investment theory here in the OA threads either.

 

Anyone want discuss OA?

What was the original topic of this thread?

 

 

I wasn't surprised about the Archie results. Comics aren't just superheroes; there are all types of collectors with nostalgia for different genres.

 

I've spoken to a few well known superhero collectors that have picked up a lot Archie and Harvey Comics art over the last few years. Dan DeCarlo is considered the John Romita for Archie Comics.

 

For those that actually follow the comics market, Archie got a huge pop with their Death of Archie storyline. The mainstream media picked up on the buzz. If it worked for Superman, why wouldn't it work for Archie?

 

Top tier artists like Adam Hughes did variant covers and the issues sold out immediately. It looks like the buzz on the death storyline also spilled over to Archie OA. Speculators? Perhaps, but there are Archie fans out there.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

Nelson,

 

I think it went sideways from when we all started speculating on when some of the top tier pieces offered on Clink didn't look like they were going to break records as they had from 2010 to 2013 time frame and that the market might not be as healthy as it once was. Then members like me started saying that the bottom pieces are going up, like Dan DeCarlo's pieces getting a long overdue boost in sales of his work at recent auctions, which means that the market is still healthy.

 

But you do have a good point this was supposed to just discuss what Clink offered and what some of us could win to add to our collection. I still think that while it's great that some of these pieces we all collect have the POTENTIAL to go way north for us, I would like to think the point that we are collecting is for a passion in the hobby and not to potentially profit from a flip in 5 years. Don't get me wrong. I really would hate to see the money I sunk into some of these pieces plummet tomorrow, but I won't go bankrupt if it this all goes bust. Plus, I have some great works that I can't wait to hang on my wall instead of watching a hedge fund run away with it all. End of money talk from me, unless someone is close friends with Warren Buffet then please PM so I can see what he's buying next.

 

Later,

 

Chris

 

I know there is a lot of financial discussion on the OA forums and the reason why is pretty plain .... OA is expensive as a portion of the net worth of most people purchasing it.

 

I've been buying and reading comics since I was a kid. I love the hobby, I love collecting comics and art. BUT if I'm dropping 10K on ANYTHING, valuation, price, the cost in terms of utility --- these are all very important aspects that I plan to consider. The love part comes in when I make all of those considerations and still use my money to buy OA.

 

I don't thing the financial discussions devalue the love any of us have for the hobby. Or my favorite analogy, 'I know a lot of dealers that love the hobby, but that love goes out the door in almost every transaction they undertake, especially when they are on the selling end.' With the money levels and in consideration of that mindset, collectors have to be as, more, or have aspirations of attaining the shrewdness levels as the vendors they deal with.

 

[Bird]

NelsonAl seems to frequently try and direct people back to the title of a thread even if a healthy discussion is taking place, but this is the first time I have seen him do it and actually contribute to the topic at hand rather than play mall cop.

[suspense39]

No one wants to read 12,000 posts on investment theory here in the OA threads either.

 

Anyone want discuss OA?

What was the original topic of this thread?

 

 

I wasn't surprised about the Archie results. Comics aren't just superheroes; there are all types of collectors with nostalgia for different genres.

 

I've spoken to a few well known superhero collectors that have picked up a lot Archie and Harvey Comics art over the last few years. Dan DeCarlo is considered the John Romita for Archie Comics.

 

For those that actually follow the comics market, Archie got a huge pop with their Death of Archie storyline. The mainstream media picked up on the buzz. If it worked for Superman, why wouldn't it work for Archie?

 

Top tier artists like Adam Hughes did variant covers and the issues sold out immediately. It looks like the buzz on the death storyline also spilled over to Archie OA. Speculators? Perhaps, but there are Archie fans out there.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

Nelson,

 

I think it went sideways from when we all started speculating on when some of the top tier pieces offered on Clink didn't look like they were going to break records as they had from 2010 to 2013 time frame and that the market might not be as healthy as it once was. Then members like me started saying that the bottom pieces are going up, like Dan DeCarlo's pieces getting a long overdue boost in sales of his work at recent auctions, which means that the market is still healthy.

 

But you do have a good point this was supposed to just discuss what Clink offered and what some of us could win to add to our collection. I still think that while it's great that some of these pieces we all collect have the POTENTIAL to go way north for us, I would like to think the point that we are collecting is for a passion in the hobby and not to potentially profit from a flip in 5 years. Don't get me wrong. I really would hate to see the money I sunk into some of these pieces plummet tomorrow, but I won't go bankrupt if it this all goes bust. Plus, I have some great works that I can't wait to hang on my wall instead of watching a hedge fund run away with it all. End of money talk from me, unless someone is close friends with Warren Buffet then please PM so I can see what he's buying next.

 

Later,

 

Chris

 

I know there is a lot of financial discussion on the OA forums and the reason why is pretty plain .... OA is expensive as a portion of the net worth of most people purchasing it.

 

I've been buying and reading comics since I was a kid. I love the hobby, I love collecting comics and art. BUT if I'm dropping 10K on ANYTHING, valuation, price, the cost in terms of utility --- these are all very important aspects that I plan to consider. The love part comes in when I make all of those considerations and still use my money to buy OA.

 

I don't thing the financial discussions devalue the love any of us have for the hobby. Or my favorite analogy, 'I know a lot of dealers that love the hobby, but that love goes out the door in almost every transaction they undertake, especially when they are on the selling end.' With the money levels and in consideration of that mindset, collectors have to be as, more, or have aspirations of attaining the shrewdness levels as the vendors they deal with.

 

 

yeah, nothing can give you a more sour feeling than finding out you spent 75% too much on something out of love!

I always try and balance all factors before making a move.

[delekkerste]

I know there is a lot of financial discussion on the OA forums and the reason why is pretty plain .... OA is expensive as a portion of the net worth of most people purchasing it.

 

I don't thing the financial discussions devalue the love any of us have for the hobby. Or my favorite analogy, 'I know a lot of dealers that love the hobby, but that love goes out the door in almost every transaction they undertake, especially when they are on the selling end.' With the money levels and in consideration of that mindset, collectors have to be as, more, or have aspirations of attaining the shrewdness levels as the vendors they deal with.

 

 

If people are surprised and/or offended that we might discuss the intersection of art and commerce/finance in a thread about the pieces offered for sale by a commercial, for-profit auction house, might I suggest that they refrain from clicking on such a thread and instead explore one of the many non-commercial threads out there?

 

I might also add that we talk a lot about market values here, because (1) the love of the art/source material is taken as a given and, more to the point, (2) that love doesn't change over time for most people. Do we really want to restrict threads to looking like this (thanks to tth2 for inspiration):

 

RSonenthal: I love Kirby!

Delekkerste: +1

RonanKillack: Kirby is awesome!

Sharkey:

Comix4Fun: He's the King.

 

Thread dies, 3 months pass:

 

RSonenthal: New thread - I still love Kirby!

Delekkerste: +1

RonanKillack:

Sharkey:

Comix4Fun: He's still the King.

 

The only thing that really changes over time are the people and prices. That's why we talk about them so much. If we had to restrict the conversation to our love of the art, this forum would have a fraction of the current participation level. So, no one should apologize for wanting to talk about market trends, values, prices, etc. Not that we can't occasionally share a moment with a stranger on the Internet about our mutual love of BWS or Adams, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that people want to talk about things that are happening and changing in this hobby, which often involves talk of numbers and commerce.

[stinkininkin]

I know there is a lot of financial discussion on the OA forums and the reason why is pretty plain .... OA is expensive as a portion of the net worth of most people purchasing it.

 

I don't thing the financial discussions devalue the love any of us have for the hobby. Or my favorite analogy, 'I know a lot of dealers that love the hobby, but that love goes out the door in almost every transaction they undertake, especially when they are on the selling end.' With the money levels and in consideration of that mindset, collectors have to be as, more, or have aspirations of attaining the shrewdness levels as the vendors they deal with.

 

 

If people are surprised and/or offended that we might discuss the intersection of art and commerce/finance in a thread about the pieces offered for sale by a commercial, for-profit auction house, might I suggest that they refrain from clicking on such a thread and instead explore one of the many non-commercial threads out there?

 

I might also add that we talk a lot about market values here, because (1) the love of the art/source material is taken as a given and, more to the point, (2) that love doesn't change over time for most people. Do we really want to restrict threads to looking like this (thanks to tth2 for inspiration):

 

RSonenthal: I love Kirby!

Delekkerste: +1

RonanKillack: Kirby is awesome!

Sharkey:

Comix4Fun: He's the King.

 

Thread dies, 3 months pass:

 

RSonenthal: New thread - I still love Kirby!

Delekkerste: +1

RonanKillack:

Sharkey:

Comix4Fun: He's still the King.

 

The only thing that really changes over time are the people and prices. That's why we talk about them so much. If we had to restrict the conversation to our love of the art, this forum would have a fraction of the current participation level. So, no one should apologize for wanting to talk about market trends, values, prices, etc. Not that we can't occasionally share a moment with a stranger on the Internet about our mutual love of BWS or Adams, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that people want to talk about things that are happening and changing in this hobby, which often involves talk of numbers and commerce.

 

 

 

[DeadpoolJr.]

With movie, and TV hype adding to OA prices, and not just comics, should I have gone after the Gene Colan DD splash in the auction, with the new Netflix show coming up? I hesitated, and put in a very weak bid, where I now feel in the long run it would have been a decent buy especially if it follows the trend of other comic shows. Examples of art selling for magnitudes more before the characters appeared on the screen is anything Thanos, and Adam Warlock, Teen Titans is getting some hype to with many Perez pieces coming to the market and of course the Deathstroke cover that many contribute because of Arrow TV show.

 

 

[Mephisto]

Is everything with Thanos and Warlock selling hot or just the Starlin 70's and Lim and Perez early 90's return of Thanos and Guantlet stuff?

[Bronty]

Is everything with Thanos and Warlock selling hot or just the Starlin 70's and Lim and Perez early 90's return of Thanos and Guantlet stuff?

 

Nobody wants your Boris

[drdroom]

With movie, and TV hype adding to OA prices, and not just comics, should I have gone after the Gene Colan DD splash in the auction, with the new Netflix show coming up? I hesitated, and put in a very weak bid, where I now feel in the long run it would have been a decent buy especially if it follows the trend of other comic shows. Examples of art selling for magnitudes more before the characters appeared on the screen is anything Thanos, and Adam Warlock, Teen Titans is getting some hype to with many Perez pieces coming to the market and of course the Deathstroke cover that many contribute because of Arrow TV show.

 

 

I suspect that movie hype effect is a diminishing phenomena. Pages from the very first GOTG comic went in Heritage for basically generic Colan SA page prices (snagged one myself!). It's now apparent that any significant Marvel character will hit the screen sooner or later, and DC can't fail to learn the lesson of Marvel forever --or can they? As for DD, he's been around once and flopped, so I wonder whether the speculation buzz can be built up again for that franchise? If the TV show becomes a huge hit then there should be an effect, but that seems like a long bet.

[suspense39]

Even poor Daredevil's comic prices lag behind