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Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC???
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Started by Wally's Comics,

6,172 posts in this topic

Gaard

Gaard

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On 6/14/2022 at 9:17 PM, CGC Mike said:

I'm not going into too much detail but, it takes some time to implement procedural changes within a company.  In some cases, new equipment is needed.  For example, some equipment was ordered a few weeks ago to help prevent scratches on the slabs. For some things, I believe QC improvement will be measured in weeks.  

re: scratches on slabs

It's been suggested in the past that the material received might've already had the scratches on them. We can throw that theory out now. We now know that they've been happening 'in house'. If they have equipment coming in to deal with this, doesn't that mean that they know where they're coming from? Are we to believe that they just now figured out where these scratches are occurring? I can only speak for myself, but I would've thought/hoped that CGC would've taken steps to prevent them after hearing the first hundred or so complaints.

It's nice that CGC is finally taking steps to diminish the frequency of all these QC issues, but I still have some serious misgivings concerning the people making the decisions over there.

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Qalyar

Qalyar

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On 6/15/2022 at 12:05 PM, zzutak said:

I'm not aware of anything either ...... which leads me to wonder why one of the top CCG Executives hasn't just phoned CGC and told them to, "Just do what the coin guys are doing!"  If every certified collectible has a label, why is it so hard for only the comic book guys to get it right?  (shrug)

Here's an NGC-certified coin.  The coin can be placed in the holder upside-down or backwards, just like with a comic.  There are different certification labels, just like with a comic.  The label can be switched with other coins in the order, just like with a comic.  The label information can be incorrect, just like with a comic.

Coin-1.jpg.c1dbab93053b52020cc250466382348b.jpg

If CCG's subsidiaries (like NGC) are not having encapsulation and label-related QC problems, perhaps it's time for CCG to tell CGC to adopt these tried-and-true policies and procedures.  Why reinvent the wheel?  (shrug)

NGC is not immune to the same sorts of errors that CGC produces. Couple quick examples:

There do seem to be fewer of these than CGC QC failures. Some of that may simply be volume related. Some may just be due to the difference in workflow between solid, metal coins and floppy, bendable, creasable comics. It's difficult to tell.

@CGC Mike What I think it most important about the NGC process vs the CGC process, and why I tagged Mike here, is that NGC will amend the certification record if they become aware of a coin with a mechanical error on the label or other issues that would make the label not reflect the reality of the encapsulated coin. CGC, so far, well... doesn't, at least not as a matter of course (I know there have been a handful of cases whose certification was deleted outright). Admittedly, NGC probably had to be more proactive about that sort of thing because there actually have been attempts to counterfeit NGC holders, while I'm not aware of any credible efforts to create fraudulent CGC slabs.

CGC desperately needs to implement this policy immediately. The problem is obvious; although a mechanical error label that would result in undervaluing the book will typically be sent back by the submitter under a mechanical error label, there is no motivation for an unscrupulous submitter to remit books whose label errors would overvalue the book (such as the Ultimate Fallout 4 reprints slabbed as genuine copies of UF4, any of the custom graphic labels that fail to reflect restoration, and so forth). That guarantees that the most significant labeling mistakes, with the greatest potential to harm third parties, are the least likely to be returned for correction. CGC cannot force anyone to return those items to have them corrected, but they can notate the certification record to indicate the actual status of the book. Collectors will need to become accustomed to checking certification status before purchasing slabbed books, but frankly, we should all be doing that anyway.

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jcjames

jcjames

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On 6/15/2022 at 11:11 AM, Axe Elf said:

  It's easier to have effective quality control if the volume is 10 units per day as opposed to 500 units a day.

I think it's WAY more than 500 comics/day.

 

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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

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On 6/15/2022 at 3:42 PM, Gaard said:

re: scratches on slabs

It's been suggested in the past that the material received might've already had the scratches on them. We can throw that theory out now. We now know that they've been happening 'in house'. If they have equipment coming in to deal with this, doesn't that mean that they know where they're coming from?

I do not know for certainty that the scratches are solely coming from in house.  I do know that in the meeting I had with the QC manager, we discussed the scratches.  He had already ordered protective materials to help prevent scratches.  I did bring it up that he may want to check the sources of material we receive.  The bottom line is, I don't know for sure that the scratches are coming solely from in house handling of the slabs.  I do know we are working on the problem of customers receiving scratches on their slabs.  

Actually, we are working on 20 different QC issues.  However, if people are going to jump to conclusions based on my posts on keeping the community updated, I will stop.  We do not know yet if these scratches are all happening in house.  

 

 

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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

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On 6/15/2022 at 4:14 PM, Qalyar said:

@CGC Mike What I think it most important about the NGC process vs the CGC process, and why I tagged Mike here, is that NGC will amend the certification record if they become aware of a coin with a mechanical error on the label or other issues that would make the label not reflect the reality of the encapsulated coin. CGC, so far, well... doesn't, at least not as a matter of course (I know there have been a handful of cases whose certification was deleted outright).

I will bring this up to the team.

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Qalyar

Qalyar

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On 6/15/2022 at 7:44 PM, CGC Mike said:

I will bring this up to the team.

Appreciated. This is one of the most important things CGC can do to recover from this period of QA issues. Obviously, fixing the problems going forward is paramount, but controlling the damage done by bad labels is essential too.

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Gaard

Gaard

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On 6/15/2022 at 8:39 PM, CGC Mike said:

We do not know yet if these scratches are all happening in house. 

Seriously? How is this possible? After all this time, CGC does not know where they are coming from?

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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

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I'll check this thread for any QC issues but, I will not be answering anymore questions.  I should have known better than try to share anything about QC efforts with the community.  

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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On 6/14/2022 at 8:36 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

x.thumb.jpg.3d72f8e3650f8b863802b1c660c2486e.jpg

I am assuming that this probably happens by checking the books against the invoice to save time hoping that they have not been mislabeled and not the books against the label itself and then checking them against an invoice before it goes out.  

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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

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On 6/15/2022 at 8:53 PM, Gaard said:
On 6/15/2022 at 8:39 PM, CGC Mike said:

We do not know yet if these scratches are all happening in house. 

Seriously? How is this possible? After all this time, CGC does not know where they are coming from?

I want to clear this up regarding scratches.  After this, I will not be posting any procedures that are being done to fix QC problems.  I mentioned new equipment was ordered to help prevent scratches.  This is what I posted. 

 

On 6/14/2022 at 9:17 PM, CGC Mike said:

I'm not going into too much detail but, it takes some time to implement procedural changes within a company.  In some cases, new equipment is needed.  For example, some equipment was ordered a few weeks ago to help prevent scratches on the slabs. For some things, I believe QC improvement will be measured in weeks.  

Here was your reply.  

On 6/15/2022 at 3:42 PM, Gaard said:

re: scratches on slabs

It's been suggested in the past that the material received might've already had the scratches on them. We can throw that theory out now. We now know that they've been happening 'in house'.

I did not want people to jump to conclusions so, I made this post.  

 

On 6/15/2022 at 8:39 PM, CGC Mike said:

I do not know for certainty that the scratches are solely coming from in house.  I do know that in the meeting I had with the QC manager, we discussed the scratches.  He had already ordered protective materials to help prevent scratches.  I did bring it up that he may want to check the sources of material we receive.  The bottom line is, I don't know for sure that the scratches are coming solely from in house handling of the slabs.  I do know we are working on the problem of customers receiving scratches on their slabs.  

Actually, we are working on 20 different QC issues.  However, if people are going to jump to conclusions based on my posts on keeping the community updated, I will stop.  We do not know yet if these scratches are all happening in house.  

 

You picked out just one sentence from my post, and came to another conclusion.  

 

On 6/15/2022 at 8:53 PM, Gaard said:

Seriously? How is this possible? After all this time, CGC does not know where they are coming from?

When I said we do not know yet, I was referring to you and I, not CGC.  I have not yet received confirmation that the scratches are solely coming from CGC procedures, from supply source, or both.  What I do know is, we are working to get this problem and several others fixed.

 

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Qalyar

Qalyar

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On 6/15/2022 at 8:01 PM, CGC Mike said:

I'll check this thread for any QC issues but, I will not be answering anymore questions.  I should have known better than try to share anything about QC efforts with the community.  

@CGC Mike I'd like to urge you to continue community engagement on this topic. Obviously, you're going to get some curt and outright rude replies. Unfortunately, that... sort of comes with the course of the internet. But honestly, one of the things that helped the QC situation become such a contentious issue in the community -- other than, well, slabs with problems that missed QC, of course -- was the perception that the company wasn't engaged on the issue. That they weren't correcting problems, or really interested in the issue at all.

Now, I'm sure that was never actually true. And I realize, being involved in process improvement work myself, that no sane company is going to diverge all their internal process details. I believe that we got to where we got because CGC felt the whole problem was an internal matter, and maybe also because they underestimated the reach and diversity of the problems involved. But having a representative of the company provide (and take) feedback on the issue means we, as customers, know that we're not the only ones invested in the problem. Yeah, we never were, but perception is sometimes reality. I, at least, don't expect detailed insights into how things are changing; that's your business, not mine. But just knowing, "hey, we're getting new equipment to help with the scratches issue" means we know that 1) both sides agree there was a scratches issues, and 2) there's action being taken to fix it. And that counts for a lot.

Even if some people are gonna be :censored: about it.

EDIT: And it should be stated outright. Thank you, Mike, for your involvement with us on these boards, both on this topic and elsewhere.

Edited by Qalyar
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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

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We generally receive about 30-40 thousand submissions a week and depending on how many of those are in the same tier or have the same services as your invoice could factor into a longer turnaround time. 

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