Action Comics #2 CGC 9.4

[jimjum12]

SGJ,UYTHMJKOIGGFBNK,ML.,NVGDFTFJHJLK;L,/M,MMVBBDXFERETTYYJJMNMBBCVVCVBNBMN,M.,.,..IJKYHFGHGBN

 

I UNDERSTAND THAT AS MUCH AS MOST IN THIS THREAD.WOOWOO

 

...but where else can I go to have someone tell me how stupid and greedy I am and make me like it GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[woowoo]

jimbo (thumbs u

GODBLESS....

woowoo(a friend of jesus) two

[batman_fan]

No issues with full disclosure, but yes, there is need for a conserved grade to alleviate the PLOD/GLOD stigma that induces an irrational penalization based solely on label color. I'm persuaded that comic grading needs to be in sync with other paper collectibles in the antiquities trade. Some collectors may be adamantly opposed to this, but collecting in any field where appraisals impact value requires consistency that makes sense to both appraisers and the public at large. My

The contempt being shown for collectors' ability to think for themselves is unbelievable.

 

Are you guys really saying that collectors are so stupid that the color of the label is all that matters to them, and that the only reason restored books are stigmatized is because CGC used a different color label?

 

So if CGC had only had blue color labels from the start for all books, whether unrestored, restored or conserved, but the label said "Conserved" or "Restored" if a book were conserved or restored, then there would be no price differential, or that the differential would be much less than it currently is?

 

If so, then I respectfully disagree. This blue label "conserved" 9.4 Action 2 will go for much less than a universal blue label 9.4 Action 2 would've gone for. I have no way of proving how the differential would compare to this same Action 2 in a PLOD, but I doubt it would be all that big.

 

I pointed it out a few pages back. There seem to be a few posters on here who want to homogenize the whole system just so their restored books will appear to be more valuable than they are. They say label colours are a stigma, but the restoration is what's the stigma. The label colour just lets me know it's there without having to pull out a jeweler's loupe and

read all the fine print on a label. I'm looking at YOU CBCS.

 

I asked before and I'll ask again.... why buy restored books and then be angry at the broader market in general that penalizes restoration, when that was what made your book more affordable for you to purchase in the first place ? So you want to get your restored book at a large discount and then chastise the entire grading system because your book is so cheap compared to an "ugly" book that was not manipulated ? Makes no sense to me.

 

-J.

 

I think there is a good data point to confirm this. Since signature books get a yellow label, where is the outcry to change those to blue with a note about the signature? Reason is yellow labels can command a higher price than blue. I for one do not recall people screaming to get rid of the yellow label because of the stigma created by it.

[VintageComics]

 

I think there is a good data point to confirm this. Since signature books get a yellow label, where is the outcry to change those to blue with a note about the signature? Reason is yellow labels can command a higher price than blue. I for one do not recall people screaming to get rid of the yellow label because of the stigma created by it.

 

I'm not saying the only reason people want blue labels on their restored books is for uniform eye appeal but that is definitely one of them.

 

But the yellow label is not a negative thing in that those that collect signature books want all their yellow labels to stand out (in a good way).

 

Purple labels, meanwhile, create an immediate negative connotation. It's psyche 101. Nobody wants a negative connotation with their books.

 

But I'd say that for me the biggest reason that I think blue is a good idea for all books (restored and unrestored) is so that people can choose based on description rather than label color which books they want, and personally I think that will make people more knowledgeable about all books in the long run.

 

 

[tth2]

No issues with full disclosure, but yes, there is need for a conserved grade to alleviate the PLOD/GLOD stigma that induces an irrational penalization based solely on label color. I'm persuaded that comic grading needs to be in sync with other paper collectibles in the antiquities trade. Some collectors may be adamantly opposed to this, but collecting in any field where appraisals impact value requires consistency that makes sense to both appraisers and the public at large. My

The contempt being shown for collectors' ability to think for themselves is unbelievable.

 

Are you guys really saying that collectors are so stupid that the color of the label is all that matters to them, and that the only reason restored books are stigmatized is because CGC used a different color label?

 

So if CGC had only had blue color labels from the start for all books, whether unrestored, restored or conserved, but the label said "Conserved" or "Restored" if a book were conserved or restored, then there would be no price differential, or that the differential would be much less than it currently is?

 

If so, then I respectfully disagree. This blue label "conserved" 9.4 Action 2 will go for much less than a universal blue label 9.4 Action 2 would've gone for. I have no way of proving how the differential would compare to this same Action 2 in a PLOD, but I doubt it would be all that big.

 

"Contempt" is a very strong word to use in this context and doesn't entirely make sense. The more that a person believes that collectors can think for themselves then the more I would imagine you'd think they do not need colored labels.

For the record, I`ve never felt strongly that the label for restored books should be a different color (notwithstanding my jokes that restored books deserve to be stigmatized with a literal scarlet letter). I think CGC just did that at the start to make it easy for people seeing the slab from a distance or from a krappy scan to know that it was a restored book. Remember that the printing on the old labels was tiny, and at the time that CGC launched, massive scans that would make it easy to read the fine print on the label were not the norm yet.

 

I have enough respect for the intelligence of collectors that I think they can distinguish between an unrestored blue label and blue label with "cleaned" or "restored" or "conserved" on it. I similarly think that for collectors who are not into restored/conserved books, those words on a blue label would be just as much of a turn-off as a purple label. I`ve never bought a blue label book that said "tiny dot of color touch" or "tiny drop of glue". Just because CGC for some reason has determined that it`s not restoration, doesn`t mean that it`s not restoration.

[woowoo]

Cant please everyone right

[Aman619]

The negative reaction was cemented in place long before CGC started grading comics. Many of us developed a negative reaction to restored books back when dealers would not disclose work they knew to have been done. It made and makes perfect sensse to me and most other collectors who have zero interest in buying restored books.

 

CGC made a decision to make it as easy as pie to look at a slabbed book and know if it was a restored book.

 

Since then, the people complaining about the stigma have been restored book buyers, who have particular interests in some or all of the various restoration methods, and who like a great looking book and don't mind if it has had extensive work to make it beautiful. And these people feel there is a stigma that affects their values. Seems to me that that makes them cheaper to buy, which should be a good thing. And as we saw, in the early stigma days, many buyers got incredible bargains buying PLODs that have since rebounded in price.

 

Anyway, to each his own. I like seeing at a glance all books I have no interest in by the color of the label. But I also agree that more verbiage as to what was done to the books would be immensely helpful to any of you who are buyers of restored books. But not a fan of all blue labels.

[tth2]

...the only reason restored books are stigmatized is because CGC used a different color label?

...Negatory! The historical precedent predates CGC.

But unless attitudes have changed PLOD & GLOD doesn't stand for Pretty Label Of Desirability and Gorgeous Label Of Destiny.

Well, that`s just people creating acronyms based on the fact that the labels ARE of different colors.

 

If they had been blue labels but with a big "Conserved" on the label, like this Action 2, perhaps we`d be calling them CLODs (Conserved Label of Death) today.

 

In fact, let me trademark that term for the record!

[Aman619]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

[jimjum12]

No issues with full disclosure, but yes, there is need for a conserved grade to alleviate the PLOD/GLOD stigma that induces an irrational penalization based solely on label color. I'm persuaded that comic grading needs to be in sync with other paper collectibles in the antiquities trade. Some collectors may be adamantly opposed to this, but collecting in any field where appraisals impact value requires consistency that makes sense to both appraisers and the public at large. My

The contempt being shown for collectors' ability to think for themselves is unbelievable.

 

Are you guys really saying that collectors are so stupid that the color of the label is all that matters to them, and that the only reason restored books are stigmatized is because CGC used a different color label?

 

So if CGC had only had blue color labels from the start for all books, whether unrestored, restored or conserved, but the label said "Conserved" or "Restored" if a book were conserved or restored, then there would be no price differential, or that the differential would be much less than it currently is?

 

If so, then I respectfully disagree. This blue label "conserved" 9.4 Action 2 will go for much less than a universal blue label 9.4 Action 2 would've gone for. I have no way of proving how the differential would compare to this same Action 2 in a PLOD, but I doubt it would be all that big.

 

"Contempt" is a very strong word to use in this context and doesn't entirely make sense. The more that a person believes that collectors can think for themselves then the more I would imagine you'd think they do not need colored labels.

For the record, I`ve never felt strongly that the label for restored books should be a different color (notwithstanding my jokes that restored books deserve to be stigmatized with a literal scarlet letter). I think CGC just did that at the start to make it easy for people seeing the slab from a distance or from a krappy scan to know that it was a restored book. Remember that the printing on the old labels was tiny, and at the time that CGC launched, massive scans that would make it easy to read the fine print on the label were not the norm yet.

 

I have enough respect for the intelligence of collectors that I think they can distinguish between an unrestored blue label and blue label with "cleaned" or "restored" or "conserved" on it. I similarly think that for collectors who are not into restored/conserved books, those words on a blue label would be just as much of a turn-off as a purple label. I`ve never bought a blue label book that said "tiny dot of color touch" or "tiny drop of glue". Just because CGC for some reason has determined that it`s not restoration, doesn`t mean that it`s not restoration.

 

..... and despite all this, you're still one of my favorite boardies. Which proves that we can all be adults about this..... if I can be an adult, believe me, anyone can. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

[tth2]

Restoration definitely carries a stigma, but colored labels serve to reinforce that. I don't believe that was the intention. On paper, having a different colored label to differentiate between restored and unrestored seems like a good idea.

Spot on. (thumbs u

 

I admit that having a different color of label most likely didn`t help in the stigmatization of restored books, but I honestly believe if it had been one color from the start and just a word or description on the label describing the restoration, the restored books still would`ve been just as stigmatized as they are today.

[tth2]

Thanks for the backstory on the book and posting a scan of it in its fortress.

 

Your explanation of the book`s history shows that Cheetah`s questions throughout this thread on the nature of the cleaning have been spot on.

[tth2]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

[woowoo]

In the 80s you could buy book cheap than restore and sell for what grade it was all day long. I love Goldenage any shape poor/fair restored unrestored just to have the book in any grade ( Brittle No No ) would be graet.

If you are Donald Trump unrestored yes all day long but if your like most why complain.

[jimjum12]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

...Jay, your arguments are usually concise and well thought out.... but I believe you're missing the boat about the motive aspect of people who argue for a more equitable degree of acceptance for restored books.... especially the ones with Slight( P). I really can't speak for everyone..... but for the most part, my position is to encourage an open mindedness directed towards those who may find a cheaper alternative towards a book they may end up enjoying as much or more than it's pristine yet lower grade counterpart. As for the true untouched 9.4's..... I get it. They will always be worth more..... as they should be. In a convoluted way.... it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments..... raising that spectre of greed as it might fit the other foot. At this point in time I really have no dog in this race, owning only a couple of books with very slight restoration (that I was unaware of when I bought them). I mainly choose to debate for the resto camp because I enjoyed the owns I've had and, honestly, don't want them to increase in value(or price..... ) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

...Jay, your arguments are usually concise and well thought out.... but I believe you're missing the boat about the motive aspect of people who argue for a more equitable degree of acceptance for restored books.... especially the ones with Slight( P). I really can't speak for everyone..... but for the most part, my position is to encourage an open mindedness directed towards those who may find a cheaper alternative towards a book they may end up enjoying as much or more than it's pristine yet lower grade counterpart. As for the true untouched 9.4's..... I get it. They will always be worth more..... as they should be. In a convoluted way.... it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments..... raising that spectre of greed as it might fit the other foot. At this point in time I really have no dog in this race, owning only a couple of books with very slight restoration (that I was unaware of when I bought them). I mainly choose to debate for the resto camp because I enjoyed the owns I've had and, honestly, don't want them to increase in value(or price..... ) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, I can honestly tell you that I do not believe the restored market impacts the blue label market in any way at all. If anything, the prices for restored books rise in tandem with their blue label counterparts, albeit at a certain percentage of blue label FMV and at a slower rate. I can't speak for everyone but I don't get the feeling from any other posters either that they feel the value of their un-restored books in blue labels would be remotely diminished if labels were homogenized. Frankly if that ever were to happen (though I doubt it will) I don't believe blue label un-restored values would be affected at all. Truthfully the only real beneficiaries of such a change would be restored books, which should give a little insight into why some of those arguments are being advanced.

 

-J.

 

[Johnny545]

Insane, how, how, how, I need to know the story here.

 

How does it survive in that shape all of these years...amazing.

 

Simply amazing.

 

I hope we learn who owned it and the back story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I can shed some light on some of the history of this book, I'm not going to mention names but they can chime in if they want to; I’m a close friend of the owner...

 

Thanks for the history/back story Val.

[jimjum12]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

...Jay, your arguments are usually concise and well thought out.... but I believe you're missing the boat about the motive aspect of people who argue for a more equitable degree of acceptance for restored books.... especially the ones with Slight( P). I really can't speak for everyone..... but for the most part, my position is to encourage an open mindedness directed towards those who may find a cheaper alternative towards a book they may end up enjoying as much or more than it's pristine yet lower grade counterpart. As for the true untouched 9.4's..... I get it. They will always be worth more..... as they should be. In a convoluted way.... it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments..... raising that spectre of greed as it might fit the other foot. At this point in time I really have no dog in this race, owning only a couple of books with very slight restoration (that I was unaware of when I bought them). I mainly choose to debate for the resto camp because I enjoyed the owns I've had and, honestly, don't want them to increase in value(or price..... ) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, I can honestly tell you that I do not believe the restored market impacts the blue label market in any way at all. If anything, the prices for restored books rise in tandem with their blue label counterparts, albeit at a certain percentage of blue label FMV and at a slower rate. I can't speak for everyone but I don't get the feeling from any other posters either that they feel the value of their un-restored books in blue labels would be remotely diminished if labels were homogenized. Frankly if that ever were to happen (though I doubt it will) I don't believe blue label un-restored values would be affected at all. Truthfully the only real beneficiaries of such a change would be restored books, which should give a little insight into why some of those arguments are being advanced.

 

-J.

 

....either way, I respect you and Tim a great deal..... and that's what's really important. But I have to be honest... all this debate has forced me to make it my life's mission to sell you a book wit slight restoration (with full disclosure, natch...) and have you like it GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

Yes... Any difference in label design or content that identified restored books would be enough for the stigma to recur..

 

The "stigma" is the restoration itself, not the colour of the label.

 

Again if restored book collectors are so turned off by the colour of the labels on their slabs, just crack the books out and put them in a mylar.

 

But this isn't about that. It's about money. Or at least "value". They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too- get a great deal on a restored book, and then immediately turn around and demand that their restored book be "worth" the same as an un-restored book, and talk of re-inventing an entire grading system that works just fine, so they can feel better about owning restored books.

 

If this is supposed to be about the love of the hobby and individual books, just owning the book at all, in the condition that was affordable at the time should be enough, right? (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

...Jay, your arguments are usually concise and well thought out.... but I believe you're missing the boat about the motive aspect of people who argue for a more equitable degree of acceptance for restored books.... especially the ones with Slight( P). I really can't speak for everyone..... but for the most part, my position is to encourage an open mindedness directed towards those who may find a cheaper alternative towards a book they may end up enjoying as much or more than it's pristine yet lower grade counterpart. As for the true untouched 9.4's..... I get it. They will always be worth more..... as they should be. In a convoluted way.... it almost seems as if the collectors of Blue only are afraid that acceptance of restored specimens will erode the value of THEIR investments..... raising that spectre of greed as it might fit the other foot. At this point in time I really have no dog in this race, owning only a couple of books with very slight restoration (that I was unaware of when I bought them). I mainly choose to debate for the resto camp because I enjoyed the owns I've had and, honestly, don't want them to increase in value(or price..... ) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Jimbo, I can honestly tell you that I do not believe the restored market impacts the blue label market in any way at all. If anything, the prices for restored books rise in tandem with their blue label counterparts, albeit at a certain percentage of blue label FMV and at a slower rate. I can't speak for everyone but I don't get the feeling from any other posters either that they feel the value of their un-restored books in blue labels would be remotely diminished if labels were homogenized. Frankly if that ever were to happen (though I doubt it will) I don't believe blue label un-restored values would be affected at all. Truthfully the only real beneficiaries of such a change would be restored books, which should give a little insight into why some of those arguments are being advanced.

 

-J.

 

....either way, I respect you and Tim a great deal..... and that's what's really important. But I have to be honest... all this debate has forced me to make it my life's mission to sell you a book wit slight restoration (with full disclosure, natch...) and have you like it GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Trust me I know where you're coming from. I only own 4 GA keys because I've resisted restoration thus far. But who knows, if the right book at the right price came along at the right time anything is possible.

 

-J.