Any books red hot 5-10 years ago that have now fallen?

[dupont2005]

Westerns were dead when I was a kid in the 80s.

 

But after at least a 50 year run.

I had to come back for this one last point.

 

This is the big difference between western and superheroes.

The western heroes all got old and died.

John Wayne,Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers and Gene Autry all iconic heroes for their generation. All got old and died.

 

The superheroes never get old and die. In fact they keep reinventing themselves for new generations. (thumbs u

 

How many new Marvel, Batman and Superman fans have been introduced to the comic book movies and animation shows these last two decades?

I would say millions.

 

So western heroes die, and don`t come back for new generations, while superheroes never die and keep reinventing themselves.

Thus superheroes will not suffer the same fate like the cowboy TV western heroes.

 

John Wayne is an actor who played a role. Superman is not an actor, but I guarantee everyone who has ever and will ever step into that role will get old and die, exactly like anyone who played Billy the Kid, or Doc Holiday.

 

Westerns aren't dead. The reason they aren't pulling in a billion dollars is because the summer blockbusters are all two hour long over-the-top promo reels. Westerns are more dramatic, and most would tend to play in the winter and get an Oscar instead of the billion dollars international. Not to say period drama is dead though. And I'll tell you what, no matter what kind of background noise people like while they talk about their mundane lives and check their text messages, Lincoln, Argo, 12 Years a Slave, ect are just flat out better movies than anything with a CGI Hulk could ever hope of being. They serve a market that isn't discriminating. Does it have explosions? Is half the cast a cartoon? Great, you just made Avatar money.

[dupont2005]

To me that is work, but then again I have a degree in business and can easily make money in any financial climate. Sometimes I have to wonder how the mind of the speculator thinks.

 

Even 2007-2009? Less us know your secret!

 

Absolutely! That was the best time to buy. Here is my secret. Invest heavily in index funds while the price is low and buy up undervalued companies. Note I bought GE stock for about $5 a share and sold at over $20 a share.

 

REIT's have been very kind to me as well.

 

As stated before my net worth literally nearly quadrupled when the market recovered.

 

Is that really a secret; buy low, sell high?

That's actually not all that impressive. Most investors made a bank with that nonsense. I mean, the working class retirement money that up and disappeared had to go somewhere.

[The-Collector]

Just for fun:

 

GL 76 in 9.6

 

High for

 

2009: $30,500

2010: $25,000

2011: $10,158

2013: $7,335

2014: $6,274 (Don & Maggie copy)

 

Perfect example of a hot artist being hot with his generation`s fans and not with the modern generation.

Steranko books have taken a hit, as well.

 

So in conclusion

A hot first appearance of a character will trump a hot first appearance of an artist in the long run.

 

No.

Clarify please?

 

Those prices have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the popularity of Neal Adams, who is just as popular today as he was 6 years ago, and everything to do with census numbers.

 

+1 There was a mania surrounding that book in high grade at the time. There was a lot of discussion here about how hard it was to find in grade, etc. that inflated the price. It was clear what was happening at the time.

 

+2

 

I think I also have to disagree that Steranko books have taken a large hit. His most in demand covers remain very strong. IH annual 1 in 9.6 has seen some very strong sales in the past six months and CA 111 commands what I consider strong prices in hg despite the large number of high grade copies available.

 

I think I'd have to agree with you actually. The interest in Steranko isn't totally gone. 8 of the top 10 viewed slabs I have in my collection on myslabbedcomics.com are Steranko's. Of course this is totally non-scientific, but it shows there is still some interest.

 

Steranko is drek. Dump your slabs now, while you still can!

 

(<----without this, 75% of the people won't know I'm kidding. With it, that number improves to 50%.)

 

I agree it is time to dump the steranko drek.

[The-Collector]

. You come off as a pompous azzhole,who thinks he knows everything about everything.RMA is like that as well,

 

Awww, thanks OakHEY!!!

 

 

Hey! When I said pretty much the same thing I got in trouble!

 

But oak is the board darling.

[oakman29]

. You come off as a pompous azzhole,who thinks he knows everything about everything.RMA is like that as well,

 

Awww, thanks OakHEY!!!

 

 

Hey! When I said pretty much the same thing I got in trouble!

 

But oak is the board darling.

 

[Hado]

Here's a thought,why don't you guys buy what you like.If it gains value all the better,if it doesn't at least you have something you like?

Why make comics so difficult? It really would take all the fun out of the hobby(for me),to worry about all the the movie hype,investment crazed nonsense.

 

But then I'd have a run of books that no other human on the planet gave two shakes about that will never make me anything but happy whenever I see them.

 

What good is that Mr. Oak? :shrug:

 

Oh...oh wait.

 

 

[apollobuzz]

Bronze-age Byrne X-Men? Look at the Overstreet price, then subtract 75% - that's what you might get for them now.

 

 

 

 

-slym

What about the pre-Byrne run (say #95 - #107)? I haven't been tracking those values too closely. Is that in the same boat?

[HighStakesComics]

Bronze-age Byrne X-Men? Look at the Overstreet price, then subtract 75% - that's what you might get for them now.

 

 

 

 

-slym

What about the pre-Byrne run (say #95 - #107)? I haven't been tracking those values too closely. Is that in the same boat?

 

100, 101 &107 sell in all grades. The others mainly just the HG stuff on Comiclink or the other sites. Not much of a market for 6.0-8.0's but that's just my experience. Opinions may vary.

[apollobuzz]

Bronze-age Byrne X-Men? Look at the Overstreet price, then subtract 75% - that's what you might get for them now.

 

 

 

 

-slym

What about the pre-Byrne run (say #95 - #107)? I haven't been tracking those values too closely. Is that in the same boat?

 

100, 101 &107 sell in all grades. The others mainly just the HG stuff on Comiclink or the other sites. Not much of a market for 6.0-8.0's but that's just my experience. Opinions may vary.

Good to know. I'm trying to fill in a few issues from that run in HG. Thanks Blazin!

[Petey's Wheatcake]

So neither I nor anyone else is hating on these films when we say that eventually the mainstream will move on to something else. It is simply a historically demonstrated certainty that this will happen.

 

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

Sure, fantasy adventure specifically, with maybe a bit of comedy or horror, and usually a whole heck of a lot of sci-fi thrown into the mix, but most everything they produce is old fashioned, four-quadrant, greenback-printing, tentpole goodness. Ya know, the kind of thing that's been the backbone of the film industry since the dawn of it's existence.

 

Guardians was as much a superhero film as Clash of the Titans or Star Wars or Ghostbusters were superhero films. They are all fantasy adventure films, and that's what Marvel really produces.

 

Scott Derrickson doesn't immediately spring to mind when I imagine superheroes, but I think Marvel wants to purposely inject some horror elements into Dr. Strange. I also think they will eventually give us crime films, and comedies, and cosmic epics, and maybe even werewolves or vampires or swamp creatures guarding the Nexus of All Realities. However they choose to expand, I'm fairly certain that their plans will be too ambitious to fit into a little spandex box.

 

As far as how this all relates to comic books, I wouldn't sweat it at all if you are primarily a collector. Prices stagnate or drop? Yay! More beautiful books for you.

 

If you are primarily a speculator? Right now any insufficiently_thoughtful_person can Jar Jar Binks their way through this market, flailing down the LCS aisles, accidentally knocking key books into their cart, while their bank account miraculously grows.

 

That won't last, but comic books aren't going away either, so if you can't figure out how to avoid losing your shirt in the long run, you should be investing in other things. Heck, some people even made it through the 90s with more money and better collections than they had when the decade started.

 

And some of them didn't even have business degrees. :wink:

 

[Aman619]

Superhero movies have all the earmarks of a fad right now. It's easy to see that there will come a point where the grosses fail more often than not, and Hollywood will move to whatever is working, as always.

 

But, 2015 in the media world is far different than the 50s, 60s etc etc.

 

Exploding viewing options, expanding content creators... Also, I agree with the argument that superheroes being far more pliable than westerns because they can be constantly reinvented and rebooted, while being rooted in basic mythological themes and storylines. And the storylines take place in the modern world most of us live in, not riding horses to town for a beer, or ranching a family homestead surrounded by angry Native American savages. Westerns were at heart just morality plays... And these are the same themes in Marvel movies aren't they? Just lots more eye candy and explosions. But it's still good guys vs bad guy bullies.

 

Plus, Disney is in the business of monetizing their characters for perpetuity. They will do where re they can to keep Marvel characters front and center in popular culture.

 

It won't matter that kids aren't introduced to them from reading pamphlets as most of us were. How that relates to any of the collecting comic books is the question. I believe that enough will seek out the keys, not runs, to maintain values. But nothing is guaranteed. Lots of credible arguments point to history repeating itself, and that comic books are a paper collectible in an future that appears to not value them as much we did.

[Heronext]

I'm waiting for the Rawhide Kid movie.

[Prince Namor]

I'm waiting for the Rawhide Kid movie.

 

Which one?

 

This one:

 

or this one?

 

[oakman29]

I'm waiting for the Rawhide Kid movie.

 

Which one?

 

This one:

 

or this one?

 

 

That's one big gun,not that there's anything wrong with that!

[markseifert]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

Good point.

I think the space frontier had something to do with killing the western.

In the early 1960s the western was king, then we had The Mercury 7 astronauts, Star Trek, Apollo moon landing and Star Wars which made the western seem like an old frontier compared to the new modern space frontier.

 

 

[Bio-Rupp]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

Good point.

I think the space frontier had something to do with killing the western.

In the early 1960s the western was king, then we had The Mercury 7 astronauts, Star Trek, Apollo moon landing and Star Wars which made the western seem like an old frontier compared to the new modern space frontier.

 

 

Good point

 

On a side yet related note, the mixing of the two genres in cinema has resulted in both positive (Firefly) and mixed (Cowboys & Aliens) critical and box office results.

 

I'd say when someone gets the balance right (Cameron, Nolan or whoever)... then box office gold awaits

 

xxx ooo

 

Rupp

[Mike's Rack]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

Good point.

I think the space frontier had something to do with killing the western.

In the early 1960s the western was king, then we had The Mercury 7 astronauts, Star Trek, Apollo moon landing and Star Wars which made the western seem like an old frontier compared to the new modern space frontier.

 

It's almost as if space were the final frontier

[Bio-Rupp]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

Good point.

I think the space frontier had something to do with killing the western.

In the early 1960s the western was king, then we had The Mercury 7 astronauts, Star Trek, Apollo moon landing and Star Wars which made the western seem like an old frontier compared to the new modern space frontier.

 

It's almost as if space were the final frontier

 

Star Trek doesn't count

[ComicConnoisseur]

I get the whole Western vs. Superhero discussion, but isn't Marvel actually in the blockbuster business?

 

I'm sure people have written books about this, but "Westerns" and what drove them are pretty misunderstood at this stage.

 

The concept of the frontier was very closely tied into our national identity for a long time. Pre-1900, what we now think of as Western stories were largely stories of people taking over the frontier.

 

When the frontier for most practical purposes "closed" in the 1890s, people understood that was a big deal and there was a lot of discussion about it. Buffalo Bill and his Wild West show, which was a major thing at the time, re-positioned the idea of the frontier hero into a more forward-looking concept of the hardy, can-do American who would and could tackle any problem here or anywhere. Roosevelt took it a step further, even using some of the same nomenclature (see - Rough Riders).

 

A lot of the "Western" tv/films that have achieved success in recent times go beyond the trappings of the genre and reconnect with that closing-frontier idea. Deadwood is a textbook example -- Wild Bill is killed, and here comes George Hearst and the new world he implies. People struggle with the change.

 

Anyway... there will always be frontiers, even if characters won't ride horses to cross them.

 

 

Good point.

I think the space frontier had something to do with killing the western.

In the early 1960s the western was king, then we had The Mercury 7 astronauts, Star Trek, Apollo moon landing and Star Wars which made the western seem like an old frontier compared to the new modern space frontier.

 

It's almost as if space were the final frontier

I would have agreed with you, until I read this.

Microscopic organisms the final frontier.

I had to tie and bring it back to the Ant-Man movie somehow.