Poll: Your Favorite Barry Windsor-Smith Conan the Barbarian Covers! 0

[cstojano]

50 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

In light of recent discussions in other threads about (a) where BWS' more mature style first really manifested itself (Conan #16 as per some in this thread, Conan #19 as per Scott W.) and (b) the significance of Conan #4 (in the comic art restoration thread), I thought I'd bump this old discussion to try and stimulate some fresh banter.

Unfortunately, it looks like the poll that originally accompanied this thread disappeared during the changeover to the new CGC Boards.  

I'd be interested in similar discussions of the splashes as well. Thanks for bumping.

[The Voord]

I lean towards the # 19 cover, the spookiness of which appeals to me.

My friend Jim Cawthorn (who sadly died a few years back) co-plotted the Elric of Melnibone two-parter with Mike Moorcock.  Years ago, I sent him the two Conan comic-books for him to sign for me.  When they were returned, Jim had also got Moorcock to add his signature to the books.  Still got them!

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by The Voord
Typo

[delekkerste]

What's strange to me is that the "Frost Giant's Daughter" story was drawn sometime before Conan #14-15 (and potentially other issues), having first appeared in Savage Tales #1 (and later reprinted in Conan #16).  And yet, the art not only looks so much nicer than the art in Conan #1-15, but, it seems to share more artistic DNA in common with his #19-24 style.  Part of that is, of course, because he spent a lot of time on the art, inking it himself.  And yet, to me, it shows little in common with the Trimpe/Kirby-esque style from #1-15 (minus the Kane fill-ins and also noting that his style was evolving with each passing month).  Perhaps he was using the Savage Tales project to experiment with this new style?  

Whatever the case, BWS drew a brand new splash (page 1, not the DPS which kicked off Savage Tales #1) and cover for issue #16, which accompanied the 11 reprinted pages from Savage Tales #1.  Both of these were drawn after the publication of issue #15.  To me, these two pages (#16 cover and page 1 splash) are firmly rooted in the style which predominates from #19-24.  I mean, if you compare them to the art from the two Elric issues just prior, there's an undeniable stylistic break. 

I mean, just look at the Conan #14 cover art (from the collection of Albert Moy) and the Conan #16 cover art (this is a scan of the production/stat cover that Pete Koch had on his site a while ago).  Night and day!  The #16 looks very much in the same style that predominates from issue #19, whereas #14 shows no sign of going in that direction.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned!  

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by delekkerste

[Knightsofold]

I love the #19.

 

[cstojano]

Gene

What is going on with the prelims for 16 given one is with Koch art and the other you photographed at SDCC. Doesn't appear to be the same piece.

Chris

[stinkininkin]

1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

What's strange to me is that the "Frost Giant's Daughter" story was drawn sometime before Conan #14-15 (and potentially other issues), having first appeared in Savage Tales #1 (and later reprinted in Conan #16).  And yet, the art not only looks so much nicer than the art in Conan #1-15, but, it seems to share more artistic DNA in common with his #19-24 style.  Part of that is, of course, because he spent a lot of time on the art, inking it himself.  And yet, to me, it shows little in common with the Trimpe/Kirby-esque style from #1-15 (minus the Kane fill-ins and also noting that his style was evolving with each passing month).  Perhaps he was using the Savage Tales project to experiment with this new style?  

Whatever the case, BWS drew a brand new splash (page 1, not the DPS which kicked off Savage Tales #1) and cover for issue #16, which accompanied the 11 reprinted pages from Savage Tales #1.  Both of these were drawn after the publication of issue #15.  To me, these two pages (#16 cover and page 1 splash) are firmly rooted in the style which predominates from #19-24.  I mean, if you compare them to the art from the two Elric issues just prior, there's an undeniable stylistic break. 

I mean, just look at the Conan #14 cover art (from the collection of Albert Moy) and the Conan #16 cover art (this is a scan of the production/stat cover that Pete Koch had on his site a while ago).  Night and day!  The #16 looks very much in the same style that predominates from issue #19, whereas #14 shows no sign of going in that direction.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned!  

 

I disagree.  All the Conan 16 art looks just like the rest of his evolving Conan work up to that point EXCEPT that he seems to have taken a bit more time with it and inked it himself (not insignificant factors by the way).  The surface stuff looks different than the Sal Buscema inked art, which makes it seem like Barry took a big leap with Conan 16.  Don't get me wrong, its some of his best stuff to that point, but to my eye, Conan 19 accelerates the shift (or evolution if you prefer) in more than just surface stylings.  In both structure (literally how he builds form and anatomy) and story telling, BWS takes a leap between Conan 16 to 19.  It's still clearly the same artist, so some similarities are consistent before and after, but I see a major demarcation line.  And for the record, I really like a lot of the early BWS Conan stuff even though it was occasionally a little wonky, and truth be told, BWS stuff is ALWAYS a little wonky, even his more mature work.  Wonky and beautiful.

Scott

Edited July 29, 2017 by stinkininkin

[delekkerste]

17 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

I disagree.  All the Conan 16 art looks just like the rest of his evolving Conan work up to that point EXCEPT that he seems to have taken a bit more time with it and inked it himself (not insignificant factors by the way).  The surface stuff looks different than the Sal Buscema inked art, which makes it seem like Barry took a big leap with Conan 16.  Don't get me wrong, its some of his best stuff to that point, but to my eye, Conan 19 accelerates the shift (or evolution if you prefer) in more than just surface stylings.  In both structure (literally how he builds form and anatomy) and story telling, BWS takes a leap between Conan 16 to 19.  It's still clearly the same artist, so some similarities are consistent before and after, but I see a major demarcation line.  And for the record, I really like a lot of the early BWS Conan stuff even though it was occasionally a little wonky, and truth be told, BWS stuff is ALWAYS a little wonky, even his more mature work.  Wonky and beautiful.

Scott

I can perhaps see your point regarding the original 11 pages that were drawn for the earlier-published Savage Tales #1.  Maybe!  But, we'll have to agree to disagree about the #16 cover and new (very sparse) page 1 splash page that were drawn post-issue #15.  To me, it's clear that BWS is experimenting there with both his line and spatial composition in a way that he had never done prior to then.  Just look at the #14 cover (which is already quite evolved from the early issues) vs. the #16.  The whole approach to the latter's composition is a radical departure from what he was doing in just the two prior issues - to me, there is no way the difference is due to the inker - especially since BWS inked both of them himself! 

Of course, there is an even further evolution during the time that Kane is filling-in for issues #17 and 18 and BWS is working on #19, just as the style continues to evolve and become more refined with each effort through Conan #24 and, later, Red Nails.  But, to me, it all begins with the #16 cover and new p. 1 splash - to my eyes, these two share more stylistic DNA with #19 than with #15.

But, then again, I'm the guy who likes ASM #98 more than GL #76, so what do I know... 

Edited July 29, 2017 by delekkerste

[tth2]

conan 16 and the later issues look more lush than the earlier issues.  whether that is because smith was inking his own work, i don’t know.

the term ’pre-raphaelite’ is often used to describe the style of bws, but it really only applies to his conan work from 16 onwards. 

[tth2]

5 hours ago, cstojano said:

Gene

What is going on with the prelims for 16 given one is with Koch art and the other you photographed at SDCC. Doesn't appear to be the same piece.

Chris

the koch piece is a production/stat piece.  the one photographed at sdcc is a prelim.

[GreatEscape]

My favorite BWS Conan cover is the KS Annual #1    Published a few months after Conan #19 so viewed as "pre-Raphaelite" style. 

 

[Brian Peck]

22 minutes ago, GreatEscape said:

My favorite BWS Conan cover is the KS Annual #1    Published a few months after Conan #19 so viewed as "pre-Raphaelite" style. 

 

Still think it's an impossible way to stand, both feet are forward of the center of mass.

[williamhlawson]

It may be impossible to stand that way... the KS # 1 still my favorite as well.  I have a t shirt I bought from Bud Plant? circa mid 80's with that cover on it,  I get rave reviews on it when worn...and I shall be buried in it.  Of course, if I had a t-shirt from the 1980's with # 16 on it my opinion may be different.  My first post, glad it was about my favorite barbarian.

[Matches_Malone]

55 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

Still think it's an impossible way to stand, both feet are forward of the center of mass.

 

Not if you have a third leg to support you.

 

[delekkerste]

12 hours ago, tth2 said:

conan 16 and the later issues look more lush than the earlier issues.  whether that is because smith was inking his own work, i don’t know.

the term ’pre-raphaelite’ is often used to describe the style of bws, but it really only applies to his conan work from 16 onwards. 

As further evidence that the #16 cover represents the true launching point for BWS' later style, remember that BWS inked all of his Conan covers with the exception of issue #1.  And then compare #16 to #15 (or, indeed, any of the earlier Conan covers as well).  Night and day, and you can't attribute the difference to someone else inking the pencils.

I think the most one could argue is that, if #19-up represents the BWS equivalent of Cubism (that's a historical analogy; not saying there are any Cubist influences whatsoever in BWS art), then the #16 cover (and page 1 splash) represents at least Proto-Cubism, whereas #1-15 represent the equivalent of Classicism. But, to me, there's no doubt that the #16 cover and splash is where BWS first significantly departs from his earlier style, even if his later style is not yet the finished article.

EDIT:  Here are the covers to issues #14-15, 16 and 19 below.  All of them are both pencilled and inked by BWS.  Clearly there is a significant stylistic break between #15 and 16.  Maybe one could argue that there is another leap between #16 and #19, but, to me, #16 shares more artistic DNA in common with #19 than #15, which is why I would consider it (at least the cover/splash added for the issue) to be the launching point for his new style.  At the very least, it is the proto version of the new style that fully manifests itself in #19.  But, in any case, it's unquestionably a significant departure from the very traditional pen & ink work that he was doing in #15 and earlier.    

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

5 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

My favorite BWS Conan cover is the KS Annual #1    Published a few months after Conan #19 so viewed as "pre-Raphaelite" style. 

 

That cover is so good. Probably my second favorite Conan after #24, which is one of my top 3 all-time favorite comic covers, period. 

[Rune]

I've got all #1-24 + Annual #1 books in CGC 9.8 except #11 (Carlo/CarlD has the single #11 9.8). I've used a flash trying to bring out the nice colors on the covers, so here's a non-OA tour of the great old covers if anyone wants one ;-)

http://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=2512

(It's like keeping a garden and I've just updated all texts in the CGC Registry - https://comics.www.collectors-society.com/registry/comics/SetGallery.aspx?PeopleSetID=9292 - but not yet on MySlabbedComics, and photos are generally bigger and better on MySlabbedComics) 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Rune

[delekkerste]

A bit of publication history:

Mar 1972 - Conan #14

Apr 1972 - Avengers #98

May 1972 - Conan #15, Avengers #99

Jun 1972 - Avengers #100

Jul 1972 - Conan #16 (cover + splash)

Oct 1972 - Conan #19

Between the Avengers #100 DPS turning up at the SDCC and Kirk Dilbeck posting p. 1 on CAF, I took a look back this morning at BWS' artwork from Avengers #98-100.  #98 - clearly BWS' old style, though, of course, he was evolving month to month, so this is clearly "late" old style compared to what he was doing in the early Conan issues.  #99 - more old than new, though, elements are definitely starting to suggest the impending style change (same can be said for Conan #15 as well). 

#100 - definitely a big change here.  Yes, part of that is due to BWS meticulously inking this issue himself (though he ran out of time and required assists for the later pages in the book).  But, again, look at the all-BWS cover to Avengers #100 and compare it to the all-BWS cover to Conan #15, published just one month earlier.  Clearly, there has been a major rethink in his style/technique.  Is it the full-blown metamorphosis we see in Conan #19 when he returns to that series?  Maybe not.  But, you can see in Avengers #100 and the new material for Conan #16 that this is where a major break from his old style occurs.  I think if you showed most people Thibodeaux's Avengers #100 DPS, they would just assume it was done around the same period as the later Conan issues (or even afterwards).   

To me, Jun/Jul 1972 (publication date) is where BWS' new style really starts to come into its own; I would simply call it the beginning of his later style as opposed to classifying that brief period between May and October 1972 cover-dated issues as some kind of phase unto itself. 

I'd urge people to go back and look at Conan #14-16, 19 and Avengers #98-100.  I'm genuinely curious to hear what other people think (including Scott, whose opinion I of course respect greatly).  Is Avengers #100 just more old-school, early BWS as well?  My eyes tell me no, but, what do I know...I'm just a philistine who prefers Scott Williams inks over Jim Lee inks!  

[Mmehdy]

#20 is my fav

[The Voord]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 7:10 AM, GreatEscape said:

My favorite BWS Conan cover is the KS Annual #1    Published a few months after Conan #19 so viewed as "pre-Raphaelite" style. 

 

Certainly one of Smith's finest.  The 'Barry Smith' signature is a work of art in itself!

[desertdogg20061]

for me its a clear choice the king size conan # 1  is barry's best cover. the bodies underwater with there eyes still open. wow  such a great cover.