Coollinesartwork Questions

[DeadpoolJr.]

My question is who sells to them? I understand that they also buy pieces through auctions, but when ever I look at their new inventory, they have much more then what was recently at auction. If we all see the art as being destroyed or sucked into a black hole once they come in possession of it, why do people, some even on here I'm guessing sell to them?

[Ironmandrd]

My question is who sells to them? I understand that they also buy pieces through auctions, but when ever I look at their new inventory, they have much more then what was recently at auction. If we all see the art as being destroyed or sucked into a black hole once they come in possession of it, why do people, some even on here I'm guessing sell to them?

 

They get a fair amount of pieces from trades.

[Bird]

Yeah, at the last comic art con Scott Eder had a Winsor McCay that I fell in love with. About 6 months later I had cash in hand to buy it and contacted Scott only to find he had traded it to East Coast Donnelly. Mr.Donnelly told me it was for his personal collection but could be had for $5750 (I think it was). I thought Scott had it a little low on the price and Donnelly a little high. So the earlier post about dealers not dealing with them isn't entirely correct, and they seem pretty aggressive on the trade margins as well.

 

If you had the art the Donnellys have, trading wouldn't be very difficult. Add in, shall we say, their persistance and you get good inventory time and again. At comic art con some tables seem very lonely, but East Coast Donnelly seems to always be talking to someone at his table.

 

BTW, I found another McCay and I love that one too. Not as much as the one that got away, but enough to make me very happy with it.

[alxjhnsn]

How many threads about these guys are there on this board?

[Tokay]

New one every year. You know spring is almost here when the new one is posted.

[AKA Rick]

My question is who sells to them? I understand that they also buy pieces through auctions, but when ever I look at their new inventory, they have much more then what was recently at auction. If we all see the art as being destroyed or sucked into a black hole once they come in possession of it, why do people, some even on here I'm guessing sell to them?

 

I know they scour eBay for perceived "bargains" and also go "artist direct" at conventions buying straight from pencilers and inkers, then mark 'em up.

 

What they are known for doing also is taking lackluster cover artwork (sometimes in today's digital age, what is rendered in pencil and/or ink isn't the exact same as what's published) and then adding in paste on mastheads (logos, titles, etc.) or integrating pieces together (some art is done on multiple pieces) to merge into one, and then selling an embellished version as a cover which looks closer to what was published.

 

Often times splash pages are turned into 2nd printing or variant covers, so they'll get those pages and make them into covers too.

 

Nothing false per se nor are they damaging the original artwork in any major way, they're fairly ambitious and resourceful.

[Unca Ben]

Yeah, at the last comic art con Scott Eder had a Winsor McCay that I fell in love with. About 6 months later I had cash in hand to buy it and contacted Scott only to find he had traded it to East Coast Donnelly. Mr.Donnelly told me it was for his personal collection but could be had for $5750 (I think it was). I thought Scott had it a little low on the price and Donnelly a little high. So the earlier post about dealers not dealing with them isn't entirely correct, and they seem pretty aggressive on the trade margins as well.

 

If you had the art the Donnellys have, trading wouldn't be very difficult. Add in, shall we say, their persistance and you get good inventory time and again. At comic art con some tables seem very lonely, but East Coast Donnelly seems to always be talking to someone at his table.

 

BTW, I found another McCay and I love that one too. Not as much as the one that got away, but enough to make me very happy with it.

 

Yeah, pretty sure I've noticed stuff on their site or eBay auctions and later seen it on Burkey's site. And vice versa.

[Unca Ben]

I know they scour eBay for perceived "bargains" and also go "artist direct" at conventions buying straight from pencilers and inkers, then mark 'em up.

 

What they are known for doing also is taking lackluster cover artwork (sometimes in today's digital age, what is rendered in pencil and/or ink isn't the exact same as what's published) and then adding in paste on mastheads (logos, titles, etc.) or integrating pieces together (some art is done on multiple pieces) to merge into one, and then selling an embellished version as a cover which looks closer to what was published.

 

Often times splash pages are turned into 2nd printing or variant covers, so they'll get those pages and make them into covers too.

 

Nothing false per se nor are they damaging the original artwork in any major way, they're fairly ambitious and resourceful.

 

This might reinforce my (usually shaky) memory of their business being a print shop, or something to that effect.

[zhamlau]

I sell a lot of pages through Comic Link. I routinely find pieces I sold on CAF in their for sale section. They hit up every major auction and buy multiple pieces each time.

[Ironmandrd]

One collector's perspective:

 

While there were times a few years ago that I was super-frustrated attempting to deal with Steve D. over several covers he/they owned (given the above market pricing and large bumps in price over short time periods), in the end I came to a sort of equilibrium about dealing with them.

 

Since then I have bought at least 8 to 10 pieces from Rich and Steve over the past three years (ranging from $1000 pages to 5 figure covers) and done one in person multi-piece cash/trade . So I have no real issues with them (except for the example at the very end of this post) and they have a bunch of nice pieces.

 

But in order to not drive myself crazy dealing with them, and in addition to the same general guidelines I use when dealing with any dealer, I came up with several "rules" (more applicable to Steve rather than Rich, so I'll use Steve in my examples below). These have been my experiences--your mileage may vary.

 

1. I expect a high "above what I view the market" price (which gets proportionately worse as the quality/price of the piece increases). Even if the piece just sold on Ebay or at auction, I don't expect a small mark-up, I expect a whole new price. I also usually ask about a number of pieces at once to try to disguise which piece I am most interested in.

 

Aside to 1: I'm not surprised if I hear a fellow collector was quoted a different price when he inquired (thankfully every time this has happened the price quoted to me was the same or better than what was quoted to the other collector).

 

2. When negotiating, I expect that I'll need to move Steve down from his price rather than work up from what I thought was a fair market price (based on private sales, Ebay, auctions, etc.). And instead of getting frustrated, I attempt to send him concrete examples of recent pricing. Steve is a hard negotiator though (Rich is no slouch either but is more affable about it). If possible, it's usually better to talk to Steve and Rich in person than through email.

 

3. Once done with the inquiries/negotiations/back and forth, I take the position that I have only "one bite at the apple" and try to make a firm decision either way.

 

If I buy/trade for it, I accept that I likely overpaid and treat it as if its the premium to get the piece out of a private collection (even though they are dealers).

 

if I pass on a piece, I try very hard to just walk away with no regrets and take the position the piece is gone forever.

 

4. If I cannot come to a firm decision for whatever reason, I expect that the next time I inquire (even if only a month or two later), the price may likely have increased in a meaningful way. Their prices increase over time and are not static like other dealers--therefore, I really try to stick to rule 3.

 

5. Because of all of the above, I only go after pieces I really want, otherwise the potential frustration/aggravation is not worth it.

 

 

But here's a situation I find difficult to reconcile:

 

http://coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=299997

 

This cover was added to the site last year after being won in a ComicLink auction. Dressing was then added. Title on the site says:

 

RYAN, MICHAEL - Iron Man #52 cover, great

 

Description says this is the cover by Ryan and Parsons.

 

So reading this description, you would think you are getting a regular pencilled and inked cover.

 

Wrong. This is the inked version. No pencils.

 

I know this because I followed the ComicLink auction (note, the ComicLink auction stated that it was just the inks), I know the prior owner of the inked version who consigned it to ComicLink, and I know the owner of the all pencil version.

 

The owner of the pencil version told me he emailed Steve but the description hasn't been changed.

[vodou]

The owner of the pencil version told me he emailed Steve but the description hasn't been changed.

This one is Ed Hannigan all day long.. Hannigan has publicly confirmed this (Comicart-L iirc) as well as to me privately. I've shared this with The Brothers. Hannigan says he has too. But it will forever and always be a Miller according to them.

 

[Unca Ben]

Things like this are truly distressing.

It's one thing to be tough to deal with, but it's another thing entirely to establish a pattern of deception.

 

It's a shame,really.

[malvin]

My question is who sells to them? I understand that they also buy pieces through auctions, but when ever I look at their new inventory, they have much more then what was recently at auction. If we all see the art as being destroyed or sucked into a black hole once they come in possession of it, why do people, some even on here I'm guessing sell to them?

 

Actually I have sold to them alot either ebay of CAF listings. I know that when I sell to them, they will likely mark it up 3x.

 

I figure, good for them. I tried to sell it the best I could, and they were the ones willing to pay the most, so they got it.

 

Someone who later complains when it will be priced 3x should have bought it when I had it for sale!!

 

Malvin

[DeadpoolJr.]

My question is who sells to them? I understand that they also buy pieces through auctions, but when ever I look at their new inventory, they have much more then what was recently at auction. If we all see the art as being destroyed or sucked into a black hole once they come in possession of it, why do people, some even on here I'm guessing sell to them?

 

Actually I have sold to them alot either ebay of CAF listings. I know that when I sell to them, they will likely mark it up 3x.

 

I figure, good for them. I tried to sell it the best I could, and they were the ones willing to pay the most, so they got it.

 

Someone who later complains when it will be priced 3x should have bought it when I had it for sale!!

 

Malvin

Malvin, you know I'm too poor for that!

[Koa]

How many threads about these guys are there on this board?

 

Sorry about starting a new one. did an advanced search back a year and nothing showed up related to coollines even though i know I've seen the threads before.

[Terry Doyle]

The piece I (recently) enquired about was a Milgrom-inked cover.

 

Steve Donnelly presented the art to John Romita Snr at a convention and had him sign it.

 

The Milgrom-inked art then became a Romita Snr-inked piece of art . . . and he upped the price by an additional $21,500 (over Burkey's original $8,500 price of less than a year before).

[Ironmandrd]

These stories certainly amplify the need for good due diligence, knowing your subject matter, asking substantive questions and ultimately an enhanced "Buyer Beware" approach. And even that may not fully do it.

[Meeley Man]

These stories certainly amplify the need for good due diligence, knowing your subject matter, asking substantive questions and ultimately an enhanced "Buyer Beware" approach. And even that may not fully do it.

 

You don't need to do all that. Just a few simple things is all it would take:

 

1) If they don't list a price on a piece, or ask for a "best offer" or "please inquire," accept that they really aren't seriously interested in selling and move on. If it were otherwise, they would have a price showing.

 

2) Ask around about the dealer/rep/artist, before you inquire or commit to buy from them. See what others say about their dealings with them. This will give a good idea of who is trustworthy and who is not very quickly.

 

3) Don't let your avarice for a piece rule your better judgment. We all have pieces we want to own for many reasons. But you shouldn't let that dictate you allowing someone to run roughshod all over you. Sometimes a dream will only ever be a dream. Accept that and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches and heartbreaks, by not dealing with people who are not worth it, no matter how great that piece is.

 

These simple steps are all you need to avoid most of the pitfalls in dealing with shady scum like the Donnelly Brothers. Ignore them at your own peril.

[J.Sid]

The owner of the pencil version told me he emailed Steve but the description hasn't been changed.

This one is Ed Hannigan all day long.. Hannigan has publicly confirmed this (Comicart-L iirc) as well as to me privately. I've shared this with The Brothers. Hannigan says he has too. But it will forever and always be a Miller according to them.

 

 

I don't know the facts about this cover, but it is weird that these artists will just sign anything that gets shoved in front of them... but I've seen it happen. Ug.

 

 

[AKA Rick]

 

I don't know the facts about this cover, but it is weird that these artists will just sign anything that gets shoved in front of them... but I've seen it happen. Ug.

 

 

STAN LEE will sign any comic book and CGC will Yellow Label anything, regardless of relevance. It seems odd for him to sign fringe books where he just created the character or maybe was the "Editor in Chief" for Marvel as the books collectors choose to get autographed as opposed to books that he was actually the writer on, and there's so many. I've heard him signing books and characters he's not worked on, even stuff for DC and other oddities.

 

So, you're right... many don't really scrutinize what they sign.