Chuck explains his Mile High pricing

[RockMyAmadeus]

Simple, collecting is a hobby that people manage out of their own personal disposable income. When an unsuspecting buyer is "sold" something by MHC they are paying a huge premium over FMV - in many cases double the value. Call these buyers: naive, inexperienced, too trusting, overly-excited, whatever. They have now purchased something that is not worth what they paid for it. This causes frustration and dissatisfaction and without an outlet (like the boards-which I have been reminded is a very small group of very opinionated people), many people quit collecting as a result. This isn't even to mention that the book(s) is/are likely over-graded and therefore this person is now in a potentially exponentially worse position.

 

In a microcosm no big deal. However when you are a huge dealer and advertise that you are the "World's Largest Comic Dealer" in an attempt to cater to thousands of people, you are now potentially discouraged thousands of new collectors from continuing in the market.

 

5-10% mark-up, no big deal. "Chuck's Pricing" at 50% or more over FMV (not to mention significantly over-graded as well), big deal.

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

I would agree with Jimbo that this is well-written, I'm just not sure it is well reasoned. If selling over-priced, over-graded comics is "damage to the hobby", given my experience over the years with numerous local comic shops, the entire hobby should have completely died off years ago.

 

Another serious question, given what you've answered above - just how many of these new collectors that Chuck is driving/has driven off do you imagine exists?

 

I mean, think about it, which is more likely for someone like that, that they are walking down the street and see one of the numerous over-priced, over-graded LCSs and go in, or happen across the Mile High website? First off, I'd guess that most people interested in buying comics online and not knowing where to look at likely to do one of two things - check out eBay (makes Chuck look like a piker when it comes to over-priced/over-graded comics), or the old stand-by, Google It. Mile High is the 9th link on the search I just did on "comic books for sale", with MCS, Westfield, eBay, Newkadia, and Atomic Avenue coming up higher.

 

I suspect these poor unfortunate folks are highly unlikely to stumble upon MH and get fleeced. It just doesn't seem that likely.

 

I suppose I cannot quantify how many people will or will not go to MHC. To your point it is in the first 10 Google searches for "buy comics online" but it isn't the top for sure.

 

I guess I was speaking of the relative risk of a person shopping at MHC versus their LCS. I won't elaborate on comparisons to eBay because that is a spoon shoot. However, I do think the average person has different expectations with eBay versus a comic shop "expert...." but that could just be my interpretation.

 

Is this an epidemic? Perhaps not overnight, but effects are cumulative and his business model is to expand that poor influence aggressively.

 

Either way I maintain Chuck is bad for the hobby, whether it is 1 person at a time or 1 million a year.

 

Fair enough. I just think that in an industry full of The Simpson's type comic shops, multiple variant issues, rebooting of universes every couple years to generate new "#1" issues, slabbed modern issues that are only worth anything if they get a 9.8 on the label, undisclosed condition manipulation, and other items I can't think of right now, Chuck's "damage" to the hobby by offering for sale books at prices some others think is way too high is so miniscule a part of the damaging behavior as to not be measurable.

 

Indeed.

[COI]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

See guys, I was looking for a well-constructed argument like this to explain how Chuck was hurting people.

[dupont2005]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

See guys, I was looking for a well-constructed argument like this to explain how Chuck was hurting people.

No, you wanted an argument to explain how Chuck was hurting you specifically. We all know anyone unlucky enough to be suckered into buying anything significant on his website or in his store is being hurt, even if they never realize it. And who do you think wanders into Milehigh wanting to buy a severely overpriced low grade raw copy of some Bronze Age Iron Man or Daredevil?

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

[COI]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

See guys, I was looking for a well-constructed argument like this to explain how Chuck was hurting people.

No, you wanted an argument to explain how Chuck was hurting you specifically. We all know anyone unlucky enough to be suckered into buying anything significant on his website or in his store is being hurt, even if they never realize it. And who do you think wanders into Milehigh wanting to buy a severely overpriced low grade raw copy of some Bronze Age Iron Man or Daredevil?

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

Nope, not me specifically. I'm trying to understand what makes Chuck so significantly different than many, many people in the marketplace?

 

Been to Ebay lately? Ridiculous BIN prices with "movie coming soon" in the title, even when there's no freaking movie coming, or when the book is, at best, loosely related to whatever films are coming.

 

Chuck isn't great, but he's hardly an outlier in this hobby. He's deserving of criticism, but I'm simply arguing that I think the criticism he gets is disproportionate, and I'm intrigued by it. Smells really butthurty.

[wombat]

He's deserving of criticism, but I'm simply arguing that I think the criticism he gets is disproportionate, and I'm intrigued by it. Smells really butthurty.

 

But how many others are making videos and putting them out there in the public? Is it really disproportionate when you specifically take actions that invite criticism?

[COI]

He's deserving of criticism, but I'm simply arguing that I think the criticism he gets is disproportionate, and I'm intrigued by it. Smells really butthurty.

 

But how many others are making videos and putting them out there in the public? Is it really disproportionate when you specifically take actions that invite criticism?

 

It has been the same story around here with Chuck, long before he was posting videos. Heck, it was long before youtube even existed.

[wombat]

He's deserving of criticism, but I'm simply arguing that I think the criticism he gets is disproportionate, and I'm intrigued by it. Smells really butthurty.

 

But how many others are making videos and putting them out there in the public? Is it really disproportionate when you specifically take actions that invite criticism?

 

It has been the same story around here with Chuck, long before he was posting videos. Heck, it was long before youtube even existed.

 

I can't speak to that. But it certainly seems like the things he currently does do invite strong opinions. Way more than the average bad apple on ebay.

[1950's war comics]

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

The above post says it all

and for this very reason I have also noticed many unknowledgeable people will not buy older coins as a gift because they are afraid they are being ripped off

[shadroch]

This hobby is overrun with self-serving individuals, so I don't see why Chuck is so distinctive, other than the fact that there seems to be this collective decades-old butthurt that Chuck was the one who got his hands on the greatest collection that will ever exist.

As a self-serving comics retailer I'm happy that Mile High prices their stuff so high, and I think their high prices do a great service to all of us who sell back issues, if for no other reason then that those high prices make the rest of us look much less self-serving.

 

The man has hit a Bingo.

[Plantman]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

You can criticize Perlman's voice acting for Clayface in Batman: The Animated Series all you want, but I take exception with your claim that he did real damage to the industry!

 

[ttfitz]

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

Yes, this indeed would be a bad thing. If it ever actually happened.

[BarryAllen]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

Are you really this self-centered?

 

Your "art-form" won't exist without collectors coming into the hobby each year to replace those that are lost. Or are you only worried about it until you die?

 

I am hardly out on a limb here...

 

Do you just wait and argue for the sake of it?

[thunsicker]

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

Let's just talk about this part, right here.

 

I don't want, and I don't need anyone to "become (a) collector." I am perfectly happy to be the only collector, or just one of a few, because I love the artform for the sake of the artform.

 

I don't NEED or WANT what I already own to be "worth anything", because it's not about the damn money. I cannot now, and will probably never, be able to complete a collection of Batman from Tec #27 up. I cannot do it, because I cannot afford it. Why? "Other collectors."

 

I miss the days when I could find a nice Batman #232 and pay $10 for it. I miss the days when Batman #121 was a $50 book. When FF #45 was a $30 book. When Hulk #271 was a $1 book. The only thing that the expansion of the market did was bring more exposure to what was out there, but the internet would have done that anyway.

 

Those who have done real damage to this industry are predatory venture capitalists like Ron Perlman and Steve Massarsky, and idjit speculators who have not one damn concern in the world for the artform...all they see is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and drive the prices up for everyone.

 

Whoopee!

 

The greatest thing that EVER HAPPENED in this industry, from MY perspective, was the mid 90's crash...by 2001, all of those books that were unattainable to me suddenly appeared, everywhere, and I was thrilled. I only wish I had more money to buy even more when I could.

 

Now...we're back to la-la madness land.

 

No, Chuck is HARDLY "doing damage."

 

+1,000,000 Would the rest of you all stop collecting already, please? You're making my funny books too expensive.

 

EDIT: Though there is plenty of blame to assign to Chuck in this regards. After all his pricing of the Church collection was some of the earliest huge inflation in pricing.

[Dano]

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

Yes, this indeed would be a bad thing. If it ever actually happened.

 

5 years ago, my wife was deciding upon a comic book wedding anniversary present for me. She initially decided against the internet, as she wanted to see the book in person. She got concerned I wouldn't like what she would get, and was afraid to dump 1K plus on a book that wouldn't make me happy. So she told me, and sought my advice. She nearly went to our local Mile High and I'm so damn glad she didn't.

 

Got some sweet OA online from my sweet better half.

 

Dan

 

 

[shadroch]

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

Yes, this indeed would be a bad thing. If it ever actually happened.

 

5 years ago, my wife was deciding upon a comic book wedding anniversary present for me. She initially decided against the internet, as she wanted to see the book in person. She got concerned I wouldn't like what she would get, and was afraid to dump 1K plus on a book that wouldn't make me happy. So she told me, and sought my advice. She nearly went to our local Mile High and I'm so damn glad she didn't.

 

Got some sweet OA online from my sweet better half.

 

 

 

 

Dan

 

 

 

What is Chucks policy on a return in a case like that?

Suppose GrandMa wanders into the hop and buys a $300 Wolverine Mini Series in VG.

Grandson is savy and looks it up on ebay and finds plenty of similar copies for

$20 bucks? Does he offer returns?

[Dano]

Great question. I have a good guess, but don't know for sure.

 

Dan

[Gatchaman]

His store.

His comics.

His prices.

In one video he says he's more collector than seller, when looking over his trades I believe.

That explains a lot more to the story, if people would listen to what he's saying

 

It doesn't explain anything. He blatantly states he charges higher prices to feed the ego driven monster store.

 

Pretending it is for the purposes of meeting a collecting need or otherwise is just him thinking he is smarter than everyone.

 

"His comics and his prices" doesn't change the conversation or the frustration people have with the damage he is doing to the hobby.

 

If you read the thread versus listening to his fairytale...

 

Serious question, what is "the damage he is doing to the hobby"?

+1

I'd like to know this too

 

Simple, collecting is a hobby that people manage out of their own personal disposable income. When an unsuspecting buyer is "sold" something by MHC they are paying a huge premium over FMV - in many cases double the value. Call these buyers: naive, inexperienced, too trusting, overly-excited, whatever. They have now purchased something that is not worth what they paid for it. This causes frustration and dissatisfaction and without an outlet (like the boards-which I have been reminded is a very small group of very opinionated people), many people quit collecting as a result. This isn't even to mention that the book(s) is/are likely over-graded and therefore this person is now in a potentially exponentially worse position.

 

In a microcosm no big deal. However when you are a huge dealer and advertise that you are the "World's Largest Comic Dealer" in an attempt to cater to thousands of people, you are now potentially discouraged thousands of new collectors from continuing in the market.

 

5-10% mark-up, no big deal. "Chuck's Pricing" at 50% or more over FMV (not to mention significantly over-graded as well), big deal.

 

We want, we need people to become collectors. Not only to ensure the hobby lives on, but also for anything you own to be worth anything when you sell it. Whatever your motivation, collectors needs collectors. Chuck makes collecting unattractive.

 

I agree. You can price yourself right of getting sales. I worked for a soccer company who sold equipment all over US. Many times their pricing was higher than their competitors and my bosses could not understand why they would lose the sale to them. A lot of these sales where into the thousands of dollars per order.

 

Not everybody is going to buy into Chuck's concept or dream. Some people just want to buy some comics at a good price.

[dupont2005]

Nope, not me specifically. I'm trying to understand what makes Chuck so significantly different than many, many people in the marketplace?

Nothing. Except some people think he's a business genius, a pillar of the community, and a person to be respected.

 

Anyone saying that about random eBay sellers?

[dupont2005]

 

A spouse. A parent. A son or daughter. Someone looking to make someone happy. They're getting burned. How would you feel if your wife bought you a special gift from Milehigh, paid $1600 or so, for some milestone. A wedding anniversary, a retirement, it was a significant cost. It was a surprise, and she CANNOT WAIT for you to open it. When you do, it's a $5 comic.

 

Yes, this indeed would be a bad thing. If it ever actually happened.

Let's just hope it never does, but if we assume he's EVER sold ANYTHING with a pricetag that high in his shop, it happened. That's the only way it could possibly happen.

 

So considering Chuck's been in business before I was a glimmer in my father's eye, it's pretty safe to assume it's happened. And will again, if he's to remain in business. His business model simply does not work without this happening.

[COI]

Nope, not me specifically. I'm trying to understand what makes Chuck so significantly different than many, many people in the marketplace?

Nothing. Except some people think he's a business genius, a pillar of the community, and a person to be respected.

 

Anyone saying that about random eBay sellers?

 

Who said that?