What happened to More Fun #73?

[Cosmic Boy]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length before, but what the happened to More Fun #73?

 

Is this really a 10K+ per point book now?

 

I mean, I understand that there has been renewed interest in Green Arrow due to the popularity of Arrow, and that Aquaman is hot for similar reasons, but 10k+ per point?

 

That's bat guano nuts.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

there's a 3.5 being offered in the sales section for 55k

[Cosmic Boy]

Yeah, I saw that. Couple that with the recent $38k sale and it's enough to drive a sane person out of collecting. Good luck to the seller, but wow.

[Wayne-Tec]

I've heard people say that Dawn of Justice will have little impact on Batman books, that Suicide Squad will have little impact on Joker books -- would that mean that the impact Arrow would be negligible on MF #73?

[Cosmic Boy]

I've heard people say that Dawn of Justice will have little impact on Batman books, that Suicide Squad will have little impact on Joker books -- would that mean that the impact Arrow would be negligible on MF #73?

 

Well, I think that's somewhat inaccurate. Joker keys might not be exploding, but Suicide Squad keys are certainly hot. Brave & the Bold #25 was always a tough book, but has now become mostly out of reach for the average collector. The '80s Suicide Squad #1 is super hot as well. I would venture to guess that we'll see a lot of those books heat up in 2016: 'Tec #474, Legends #1, etc. Probably Batman #251, which has already started getting hot.

 

Arrow/Flash haven't had MCU like effects on DC keys, but they have certainly bumped their share like Firestorm.

[Wayne-Tec]

Oh...I was only speaking to Golden Age books.

 

No doubt some of the newer stuff has been effected. (thumbs u

[Sqeggs]

Yeah, I saw that. Couple that with the recent $38k sale and it's enough to drive a sane person out of collecting. Good luck to the seller, but wow.

 

I think he may need the luck trying to sell a raw copy on the boards at that price.

[jjeanius]

Yeah, I saw that. Couple that with the recent $38k sale and it's enough to drive a sane person out of collecting. Good luck to the seller, but wow.

 

I think he may need the luck trying to sell a raw copy on the boards at that price.

 

Uh...yeah. To put it mildly.

[rjpb]

It went from being an undervalued book to an overvalued one. I don't care how much additional interest there currently is in either Aquaman or Green Arrow, values higher than that of MF #52 are not sustainable, especially with no cover appearance. It ran up too fast for a GA book that already had some key value. This isn't a TTA #13 situation where a random book increases 20 fold in value because of newly acquired key status. You will probably never be able to pick up a VG copy for 4 grand again, but I wouldn't count on being able to sell one for 40K much longer either.

[AnkurJ]

For that price i would rather have a Batman 1.

[Wayne-Tec]

For that price i would rather have a Batman 1.

 

+1000000

[Primetime]

For that price i would rather have a Batman 1.

and plenty of other more sustainable solid books to pick from.

[Illustrious]

For that price i would rather have a Batman 1.

and plenty of other more sustainable solid books to pick from.

 

I was about to say the same thing, I know of at least 15-20 GA books I'd buy before spending that amount on a MF #73.

[markseifert]

It went from being an undervalued book to an overvalued one. I don't care how much additional interest there currently is in either Aquaman or Green Arrow, values higher than that of MF #52 are not sustainable, especially with no cover appearance. It ran up too fast for a GA book that already had some key value. This isn't a TTA #13 situation where a random book increases 20 fold in value because of newly acquired key status. You will probably never be able to pick up a VG copy for 4 grand again, but I wouldn't count on being able to sell one for 40K much longer either.

 

Playing devil's advocate --

 

Do we live in a world where first Aquaman + first Green Arrow < 10% of first Superman grade-for-grade, even without a character-representative cover? We used to, but it's very plausible we don't anymore.

 

Actually, I think ten percent more than works as a gut-check number in a vacuum (as in... "Is Aquaman + Green Arrow worth ten percent of Superman? Uh... yes? I think?" That's actually a pretty good man-on-the-street question ) five percent seems too low, twenty percent is probably too high. I'm completely making this stuff up, but of course, that's what we do. We have these complex theoretical interdependencies of importance, which are all purely imaginary, but that we completely buy into anyway to make the prices sort-of make sense.

 

****

 

 

Census numbers (I'm going to hand-wave around the fact that we know this isn't all that accurate) for Bat 1 are nearly 6x numbers of MF 73. We know there's going to be SOME increase in subs this year, but... how much is a big question. I don't think you can point to too many examples of GA books getting big census bumps, with the exception of perhaps some known warehouse finds. Certainly, many top-end key book prices have gone through the roof since 2010 and that has not brought out an "unusual" number of additional copies of those books.

 

You can also look at MF 52, perceived as an important key for much longer, yet has nearly identical total census numbers to MF 73. I think that's pretty telling. I think all the data tells us that MF 73 won't be closing the gap census-wise with some of the other key books anytime soon. Even All-Star 8 has over 3x that number. So... if we presume that what 15 years of slabbing data has told us so far about Golden Age will continue to hold true (admittedly, maybe not a good assumption quite yet, but we'll see!) that in itself has some pretty interesting implications.

 

 

****

 

There's also this... kind of slippery idea... that conventional wisdom on these things is very often going to be wrong. It's useful to think of 2010 as a turning point in the market, we entered the million dollar era. If you go back and look at these sorts of threads since then, you will find that "we", collectively, don't reach a very useful or accurate consensus on these topics all that often. There's some pretty good reasons for that, but I think the most important one is that true experts who are experienced and frequent market participants have very compelling reasons for not giving away their edge. Obvious I guess, but you can make some fun inferences if you keep that in mind during discussions like this.

 

All of which means... not that much. Probably.

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

So are we *still* claiming that movie/TV hype doesn't also hit GA books?

 

-J.

[jimbo_707]

For that price i would rather have a Batman 1.

and plenty of other more sustainable solid books to pick from.

 

I was about to say the same thing, I know of at least 15-20 GA books I'd buy before spending that amount on a MF #73.

MF 73 doesn't interest me much because it has a boring cover. It may very well have the least interesting Doctor Fate cover. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I care a lot more about cover art than I do about 1st appearances. That's why, for interest, Cap 3 is a lot higher on my want list than Cap 1.

[Wayne-Tec]

It went from being an undervalued book to an overvalued one. I don't care how much additional interest there currently is in either Aquaman or Green Arrow, values higher than that of MF #52 are not sustainable, especially with no cover appearance. It ran up too fast for a GA book that already had some key value. This isn't a TTA #13 situation where a random book increases 20 fold in value because of newly acquired key status. You will probably never be able to pick up a VG copy for 4 grand again, but I wouldn't count on being able to sell one for 40K much longer either.

 

Playing devil's advocate --

 

Do we live in a world where first Aquaman + first Green Arrow < 10% of first Superman grade-for-grade, even without a character-representative cover? We used to, but it's very plausible we don't anymore.

 

Actually, I think ten percent more than works as a gut-check number in a vacuum (as in... "Is Aquaman + Green Arrow worth ten percent of Superman? Uh... yes? I think?" That's actually a pretty good man-on-the-street question ) five percent seems too low, twenty percent is probably too high. I'm completely making this stuff up, but of course, that's what we do. We have these complex theoretical interdependencies of importance, which are all purely imaginary, but that we completely buy into anyway to make the prices sort-of make sense.

 

****

 

 

Census numbers (I'm going to hand-wave around the fact that we know this isn't all that accurate) for Bat 1 are nearly 6x numbers of MF 73. We know there's going to be SOME increase in subs this year, but... how much is a big question. I don't think you can point to too many examples of GA books getting big census bumps, with the exception of perhaps some known warehouse finds. Certainly, many top-end key book prices have gone through the roof since 2010 and that has not brought out an "unusual" number of additional copies of those books.

 

You can also look at MF 52, perceived as an important key for much longer, yet has nearly identical total census numbers to MF 73. I think that's pretty telling. I think all the data tells us that MF 73 won't be closing the gap census-wise with some of the other key books anytime soon. Even All-Star 8 has over 3x that number. So... if we presume that what 15 years of slabbing data has told us so far about Golden Age will continue to hold true (admittedly, maybe not a good assumption quite yet, but we'll see!) that in itself has some pretty interesting implications.

 

 

****

 

There's also this... kind of slippery idea... that conventional wisdom on these things is very often going to be wrong. It's useful to think of 2010 as a turning point in the market, we entered the million dollar era. If you go back and look at these sorts of threads since then, you will find that "we", collectively, don't reach a very useful or accurate consensus on these topics all that often. There's some pretty good reasons for that, but I think the most important one is that true experts who are experienced and frequent market participants have very compelling reasons for not giving away their edge. Obvious I guess, but you can make some fun inferences if you keep that in mind during discussions like this.

 

All of which means... not that much. Probably.

 

I really enjoy your feedback Mark. I don't personally agree with everything, but you make a very compelling, logical argument in favor of it.

 

If the question is: Are the 1st appearances of Aquaman and Green Arrow worth 10% of the 1st appearance of Superman?

 

Given the popularity of the TV show Arrow, and recent popularity increase in Aquaman, that proclamation doesn't sound unreasonable. But unlike Batman and Superman, those characters have spent decades toiling around the lower tiers of comicdom. Although recent developments could change that, I'm not convinced it's enough for the long run, or to put the combo within 10% of Superman.

 

But even if we roll with the "they're at least worth 10% train of thought", which isn't all that unreasonable IMO, I think the greater question is: Does that combination, despite no cover appearance, have enough to hang with the desirability found in other books?

 

The answer to that, as of this time at least, to me is no.

[Wayne-Tec]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I care a lot more about cover art than I do about 1st appearances. That's why, for interest, Cap 3 is a lot higher on my want list than Cap 1.

 

It's all a matter of personal preferences, so to that end there can be no wrong answer.

 

But to me, especially if we're just talking cover-for-cover -- there may be no greater, or more desirable cover than that of Cap #1.

 

 

[jjeanius]

It went from being an undervalued book to an overvalued one. I don't care how much additional interest there currently is in either Aquaman or Green Arrow, values higher than that of MF #52 are not sustainable, especially with no cover appearance. It ran up too fast for a GA book that already had some key value. This isn't a TTA #13 situation where a random book increases 20 fold in value because of newly acquired key status. You will probably never be able to pick up a VG copy for 4 grand again, but I wouldn't count on being able to sell one for 40K much longer either.

 

Playing devil's advocate --

 

Do we live in a world where first Aquaman + first Green Arrow < 10% of first Superman grade-for-grade, even without a character-representative cover? We used to, but it's very plausible we don't anymore.

 

Actually, I think ten percent more than works as a gut-check number in a vacuum (as in... "Is Aquaman + Green Arrow worth ten percent of Superman? Uh... yes? I think?" That's actually a pretty good man-on-the-street question ) five percent seems too low, twenty percent is probably too high. I'm completely making this stuff up, but of course, that's what we do. We have these complex theoretical interdependencies of importance, which are all purely imaginary, but that we completely buy into anyway to make the prices sort-of make sense.

 

****

 

 

Census numbers (I'm going to hand-wave around the fact that we know this isn't all that accurate) for Bat 1 are nearly 6x numbers of MF 73. We know there's going to be SOME increase in subs this year, but... how much is a big question. I don't think you can point to too many examples of GA books getting big census bumps, with the exception of perhaps some known warehouse finds. Certainly, many top-end key book prices have gone through the roof since 2010 and that has not brought out an "unusual" number of additional copies of those books.

 

You can also look at MF 52, perceived as an important key for much longer, yet has nearly identical total census numbers to MF 73. I think that's pretty telling. I think all the data tells us that MF 73 won't be closing the gap census-wise with some of the other key books anytime soon. Even All-Star 8 has over 3x that number. So... if we presume that what 15 years of slabbing data has told us so far about Golden Age will continue to hold true (admittedly, maybe not a good assumption quite yet, but we'll see!) that in itself has some pretty interesting implications.

 

 

****

 

There's also this... kind of slippery idea... that conventional wisdom on these things is very often going to be wrong. It's useful to think of 2010 as a turning point in the market, we entered the million dollar era. If you go back and look at these sorts of threads since then, you will find that "we", collectively, don't reach a very useful or accurate consensus on these topics all that often. There's some pretty good reasons for that, but I think the most important one is that true experts who are experienced and frequent market participants have very compelling reasons for not giving away their edge. Obvious I guess, but you can make some fun inferences if you keep that in mind during discussions like this.

 

All of which means... not that much. Probably.

 

I really enjoy your feedback Mark. I don't personally agree with everything, but you make a very compelling, logical argument in favor of it.

 

If the question is: Are the 1st appearances of Aquaman and Green Arrow worth 10% of the 1st appearance of Superman?

 

Given the popularity of the TV show Arrow, and recent popularity increase in Aquaman, that proclamation doesn't sound unreasonable. But unlike Batman and Superman, those characters have spent decades toiling around the lower tiers of comicdom. Although recent developments could change that, I'm not convinced it's enough for the long run, or to put the combo within 10% of Superman.

 

But even if we roll with the "they're at least worth 10% train of thought", which isn't all that unreasonable IMO, I think the greater question is: Does that combination, despite no cover appearance, have enough to hang with the desirability found in other books?

 

The answer to that, as of this time at least, to me is no.

 

Well said - this echoes my sentiments exactly. If I owned a copy of this book, I would be looking to sell right now and capitalize on the hype.

[Wayne-Tec]

I really enjoy your feedback Mark. I don't personally agree with everything, but you make a very compelling, logical argument in favor of it.

 

If the question is: Are the 1st appearances of Aquaman and Green Arrow worth 10% of the 1st appearance of Superman?

 

Given the popularity of the TV show Arrow, and recent popularity increase in Aquaman, that proclamation doesn't sound unreasonable. But unlike Batman and Superman, those characters have spent decades toiling around the lower tiers of comicdom. Although recent developments could change that, I'm not convinced it's enough for the long run, or to put the combo within 10% of Superman.

 

But even if we roll with the "they're at least worth 10% train of thought", which isn't all that unreasonable IMO, I think the greater question is: Does that combination, despite no cover appearance, have enough to hang with the desirability found in other books?

 

The answer to that, as of this time at least, to me is no.

 

Well said - this echoes my sentiments exactly. If I owned a copy of this book, I would be looking to sell right now and capitalize on the hype.

 

If we're talking long-term projection, even taking scarcity into account, I do not see the 1st appearances of Aquaman and Green Arrow being anywhere near as desirable as the 1st appearances of the Joker (Batman #1), Captain America/Bucky/Red Skull (Cap #1) or others -- and that's before taking into account covers, No. 1's and other factors that make those books special.