These slabs from Heritage look funky...

[Unca Ben]

I'd imagine an Action #1, Tec 27, etc. would be submitted as a walkthrough.

 

With values of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars - or millions - I doubt if these books are dropped in a mailbox or handed to a FedEx agent.

 

Fairly certain there are some slabs that haven't ever been shipped without using a high-end shipping service.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Any slabs that get shipped are at risk though right? And all slabs have been shipped.

 

 

 

24 out of 2,400,000 = 1 in 100,000

now factor in a lot of these have been shipped several times between buyers...

so, probably closer to 1 in 200,000

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Any slabs that get shipped are at risk though right? And all slabs have been shipped.

 

Also, comicwiz's books were not being shipped, They were at an outdoor show on display. I don't know what went on there, but in Florida we don't walk around in 170 degree heat. Of course, he is Canadian, so maybe they take their warm sunny days when they can?

[VintageComics]

I live in one of the hottest states in the union and I have yet to see this happen. It had to be a combination of circumstances. maybe in direct sunlight, in a truck or van with little to no air movement for extended periods of time. I have left some of my own slabs in the trunk of my car for days (accidentally) and never saw anything close to this. And after having broken out thousands of already slabbed books I have not seen any that laminated themselves to the book. Some were clinging tightly, but never stuck.

 

Any slabs that get shipped are at risk though right? And all slabs have been shipped.

 

Also, comicwiz's books were not being shipped, They were at an outdoor show on display. I don't know what went on there, but in Florida we don't walk around in 170 degree heat. Of course, he is Canadian, so maybe they take their warm sunny days when they can?

 

I will agree that after handling literally 1000's and 1000's of slabs, and cracking many books out I've never seen this either.

 

It has to be extenuating circumstances which must include direct sunlight exposure or extreme heat with no ventilation over a long period of time.

 

Most average circumstances won't produce this sort of heat.

 

And as far as Comicwhiz' weather goes I live close by. It's never 'Arizona type' hot although it can be pretty close and direct sunlight can increase the exposure.

[comicwiz]

The books lay flat in the showcase. The tent is UV protected so they weren't under direct sunlight. The showcase has two panel doors in the back that open upward on a hinge, and a locking latch, but I don't bother locking it (because I'm usually standing behind it) and actually leave a slight opening to allow some airflow. The temperature was mid-30's, with the humidex possibly in the low 40's. It was near a lake so there is a breeze/lake effect, but minimal that day due to the humidity. I had the books a little after 8AM in the morning, and discovered the melt before noon. None of the books on the wall display were damaged, and haven't been in the 5 years I've been doing the show, so I do believe the enclosed aspect is a factor which might be mimicked in the circumstances where a slab is bagged, double-boxed, and sitting in the right warm depot or truck:

[kav]

Baffling

[comicwiz]

I should also add that there were over a dozen effected slabs. How many slabs I can't recall exactly.

 

What I do remember is that they were stacked in several piles, and the top ones didn't really show more damage than ones sitting in the middle.

 

A few did not show anywhere near the melting in the inner well as others, however when I cracked them out, the inner well had adhered to spots on the cover.

 

There was no way to save those from showing a "tape pull" defect no matter how slow you went because the Barex had already melted on the inks. Some were small spots. Others about the size of a pinky nail.

 

It was also barely noticeable that anything was off with the slab until I cracked them out and tried to liberate the book from the well. Normally when the Barex melts in such circumstances, there are fairly noticeable air gaps from the Barex making contact with the cover, very similar to seeing a DIY tint job on someone's car.

 

I mention this because melt reveal on the well isn't necessarily a 100% effective tell, and the only reason why I had to check even the ones I thought looked fine was because they were in the case and I needed to verify if the Barex had melted even partially.

[jimbo_707]

The books lay flat in the showcase. The tent is UV protected so they weren't under direct sunlight. The showcase has two panel doors in the back that open upward on a hinge, and a locking latch, but I don't bother locking it (because I'm usually standing behind it) and actually leave a slight opening to allow some airflow. The temperature was mid-30's, with the humidex possibly in the low 40's. It was near a lake so there is a breeze/lake effect, but minimal that day due to the humidity. I had the books a little after 8AM in the morning, and discovered the melt before noon. None of the books on the wall display were damaged, and haven't been in the 5 years I've been doing the show, so I do believe the enclosed aspect is a factor which might be mimicked in the circumstances where a slab is bagged, double-boxed, and sitting in the right warm depot or truck:

You mentioned that the tent offered UV protection, but is it possible that it did not provide protection against infra-red rays? Even though UV rays are responsible for sunburns, those rays don't carry much heat; much of the meat of the sun is carried by the infra-red rays. I'm not a materials expert, so I don't know whether infrared can penetrate that tent material.

[kav]

IR should be able to penetrate a tent-military IR videos show people hiding under cars.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Is there any possibility they were damaged prior to the show and not noticed?

 

Because looking at that setup, it appears difficult to reach elevated temperatures.

[vaultkeeper]

I should also add that there were over a dozen effected slabs. How many slabs I can't recall exactly.

 

What I do remember is that they were stacked in several piles, and the top ones didn't really show more damage than ones sitting in the middle.

 

A few did not show anywhere near the melting in the inner well as others, however when I cracked them out, the inner well had adhered to spots on the cover.

 

There was no way to save those from showing a "tape pull" defect no matter how slow you went because the Barex had already melted on the inks. Some were small spots. Others about the size of a pinky nail.

 

It was also barely noticeable that anything was off with the slab until I cracked them out and tried to liberate the book from the well. Normally when the Barex melts in such circumstances, there are fairly noticeable air gaps from the Barex making contact with the cover, very similar to seeing a DIY tint job on someone's car.

 

I mention this because melt reveal on the well isn't necessarily a 100% effective tell, and the only reason why I had to check even the ones I thought looked fine was because they were in the case and I needed to verify if the Barex had melted even partially.

 

Thanks comicwiz, This is very helpful information. I will continue testing the inner-wells to see if I can get them to laminate at a lower temp., and see if lamination will occur without distortion.

[kav]

See if like 130 F over 8 hours does anything. If it's like 90 F out but slab is absorbing IR maybe it could reach a 130 F temp.

These are just guesses

[jimbo_707]

See if like 130 F over 8 hours does anything. If it's like 90 F out but slab is absorbing IR maybe it could reach a 130 F temp.

These are just guesses

It's been a long time since I took a heat transfer class, so I may be way off, but here's what I'm thinking: both the books in Mylar and the slabbed books would absorb roughly the same amount of radiant heat from the infra-red rays. However, the books in Mylar might stay cooler because they would lose much of that heat by convection (because of air flow around them). The slabbed, books, however, would have a pocket of air between the inner and outer well. That pocket of air would not prevent the IR rays from reaching the inner well & the book, but it might act as insulation and prevent the book & inner well from being cooled. The rate of heat transfer to the ambient air outside the slab would be much slower. Add to that the possibility the Barex may be more sensitive to high temperatures than the Mylar, and it's not at all surprising that the inner wells of the slabbed books would show evidence of heat damage not seen in the raw books' Mylar sleeves.

[comicwiz]

Is there any possibility they were damaged prior to the show and not noticed?

 

Because looking at that setup, it appears difficult to reach elevated temperatures.

 

I think because the books came from a wide range of purchases and not one source, it is difficult to know. Although I scan every book I buy carefully so I would have noticed. In fact, unrelated to this batch that were exposed, I had a few books graded by CGC at around this time and noticed one of the seams on the well didn't look right and was migrating dangerously close to pinching the spine on a $3K book. CGC confirmed this does happen from heat reference during the slabbing process.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I meant eg: during transport or storage they may have been adjacent to a heat source and the results weren't discovered until you noticed them at the show.

[comicwiz]

I meant eg: during transport or storage they may have been adjacent to a heat source and the results weren't discovered until you noticed them at the show.

 

I had these books sitting in my collection from anywhere from 2-6 years and I store my stuff in a temp controlled, dark, cool, environment. The damage happened under that tent.

[jimbo_707]

I meant eg: during transport or storage they may have been adjacent to a heat source and the results weren't discovered until you noticed them at the show.

 

I had these books sitting in my collection from anywhere from 2-6 years and I store my stuff in a temp controlled, dark, cool, environment. The damage happened under that tent.

Even though I have a theory for how your comic books were damaged, it's more difficult to say what could have happened to Jeff's. I tend to agree with whomever it was who suggested that the package may have been near a heat source at some point.

[TXReplicant]

I've had two books arrive like this. They were both in the thicker/deeper style slabs for what it's worth. I am in TX.

 

I wonder if more expensive shipping methods help. For example a 2 day UPS/FedEx versus something like USPS Media Mail which is purposely being held back in every truck and warehouse along the way.

 

CGC Slabs are best shipped in Styrofoam dry ice coolers next to the lobster bisque.

[Bomber-Bob]

Nearmint, what did Heritage have to say about this ? I trust you are getting a refund.

[nearmint]

Nearmint, what did Heritage have to say about this ? I trust you are getting a refund.

 

Yes, they offered a choice of a full refund or free reholdering. I'm going for the refund, as I don't know if the melted inner wells have adhered to the books. They even emailed me a shipping label. (thumbs u