These slabs from Heritage look funky...

[comicwiz]

I'm starting to wrap my head around some observations about how the melt is more prominent around the top of the slab, and especially around the label. These are also where most of the sonic seal seams are found. Is it possible the Barex is losing integrity partly during the seal process, and that a depressed melting point occurs because of the cumulative exposure to the seal and heat during transit?

 

I mean it is logical to think the hard outer shell is assisting somewhat to trap the heat, but every slab I have that shows this melt is prominently showing at the top.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

I don't know how much Barex CGC has left for slabs but I'm wondering if they used a Barex replacement for some slabs. The replacement plastic could have slightly different properties and might account for some of the slab defects (puddling, waviness) people have seen recently.

http://www.pmpnews.com/news/industry-evaluating-barex-alternatives-150204

 

 

Puddling was in the outer shell which is not Barex

[Mark 1]

 

I don't know how much Barex CGC has left for slabs but I'm wondering if they used a Barex replacement for some slabs. The replacement plastic could have slightly different properties and might account for some of the slab defects (puddling, waviness) people have seen recently.

http://www.pmpnews.com/news/industry-evaluating-barex-alternatives-150204

 

 

Puddling was in the outer shell which is not Barex

 

Wrong. Puddling is within the inner well. Not the outside shell.

[Nicolai Stig]

Well it only takes 22c outside temperatur, to reach 85c inside a var, if left in the sun.

Totally plausible shipping melted These slabs.

 

 

[Buzzetta]

It was the sun. I have received carded action figures in shipment during heat waves that appeared to have suffered some bubble damage due to the intense heat. It happens.

[comicwiz]

 

I don't know how much Barex CGC has left for slabs but I'm wondering if they used a Barex replacement for some slabs. The replacement plastic could have slightly different properties and might account for some of the slab defects (puddling, waviness) people have seen recently.

http://www.pmpnews.com/news/industry-evaluating-barex-alternatives-150204

 

 

Puddling was in the outer shell which is not Barex

 

Wrong. Puddling is within the inner well. Not the outside shell.

 

Definitely inner well. Coincidentally, when people were wondering why we hadn't seen more of this, the puddled wells came to mind. Though I didn't bring it up because it seemed the direction of discussion at that time was reasoning defective wells being used which CGC deemed a non-issue. It's looking like there's a possibility there's a flaw here that relates to heat exposure risk that may not have been properly addressed through product quality control.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

I don't know how much Barex CGC has left for slabs but I'm wondering if they used a Barex replacement for some slabs. The replacement plastic could have slightly different properties and might account for some of the slab defects (puddling, waviness) people have seen recently.

http://www.pmpnews.com/news/industry-evaluating-barex-alternatives-150204

 

 

Puddling was in the outer shell which is not Barex

 

Wrong. Puddling is within the inner well. Not the outside shell.

 

Misremembered.

Drat this noggin!

 

So, they could have easily changed the material from Barex to something entirely different.

[vaultkeeper]

 

I don't know how much Barex CGC has left for slabs but I'm wondering if they used a Barex replacement for some slabs. The replacement plastic could have slightly different properties and might account for some of the slab defects (puddling, waviness) people have seen recently.

http://www.pmpnews.com/news/industry-evaluating-barex-alternatives-150204

 

 

Puddling was in the outer shell which is not Barex

 

Wrong. Puddling is within the inner well. Not the outside shell.

 

Misremembered.

Drat this noggin!

 

So, they could have easily changed the material from Barex to something entirely different.

 

When I ran my analysis I tested inner-wells that were at least 5 years old as well as ones I just got back last month. The results were identical.

[comicwiz]

I must have missed this - can you elaborate on the tests you did on the inner wells?

[vaultkeeper]

I must have missed this - can you elaborate on the tests you did on the inner wells?

 

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

Recap from page 5

[adamstrange]

I must have missed this - can you elaborate on the tests you did on the inner wells?

 

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

Recap from page 5

 

Thanks for doing the tests. (thumbs u

 

It's nice to have actual evidence.

[cheetah]

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

I think that is too high a heat to get from just sitting in the sun or in a carrier going someplace. That is hot enough to blister anyone touching it.

[vaultkeeper]

I've conducted some thermal testing on the Barex inner-wells in the lab today. My results agree with the above post.

 

75 deg C (167 deg F) Barex is soft and pliable, but not rippling.

 

77 deg C (170.6 deg F) Barex is rippling, but not laminating.

 

80 deg C (176 deg F) Barex is laminating to the book.

 

I think that is too high a heat to get from just sitting in the sun or in a carrier going someplace. That is hot enough to blister anyone touching it.

 

On the next 90+ deg day I have some books that will be going out for a suntan.

[Gaard]

 

I'm afraid to admit I have some experience with this. I had very nearly $2K worth of books melted on a warm sunny day while they were displayed in a showcase at an outdoor market. They were under a UV protected tent, and not under direct sunlight. I wondered at the time how this could have happened as barex is supposed to have a melting point 317 degrees C and it couldn't have been hotter than 40 degrees with the humidity that day. All the books in Mylar in the same display were fine.

 

While we will probably never know exactly how this took place, your situation reopens the possibility that slabs could get damaged during transit (i.e. in a really warm delivery truck on a hot day). I don't know how Heritage allowed these to slip through as this kind of melt is pretty noticeable when you see the books in hand and shouldn't have been sold in this state.

 

166 degree C melt point

 

...... while excessive heat in transit would seem like the only explanation.....I can't help but wonder why we haven't seen more examples like this brought to light after so many CGC books have shipped over the years, Maybe a scenario where someone was downtown all day, say with two hookers, Cheetah the Chimp, and 6 gallons of whipped cream..... while the books sat on the stoop in the hot sun GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... all kidding aside, I've opened packages during the summer where I could literally feel the heat rush out of the box.....

This happened to me last year. Check out the last page to Boozad's "How to pack your books" thread that's stickied.

 

Mike

[kav]

Response to my query from Ineos, manufacturer of Barex:

 

The Heat Deflection Temperature for Barex is 170oF (~77 oC). Above this point Barex will soften fairly readily.

 

[Sqeggs]

 

I'm afraid to admit I have some experience with this. I had very nearly $2K worth of books melted on a warm sunny day while they were displayed in a showcase at an outdoor market. They were under a UV protected tent, and not under direct sunlight. I wondered at the time how this could have happened as barex is supposed to have a melting point 317 degrees C and it couldn't have been hotter than 40 degrees with the humidity that day. All the books in Mylar in the same display were fine.

 

While we will probably never know exactly how this took place, your situation reopens the possibility that slabs could get damaged during transit (i.e. in a really warm delivery truck on a hot day). I don't know how Heritage allowed these to slip through as this kind of melt is pretty noticeable when you see the books in hand and shouldn't have been sold in this state.

 

166 degree C melt point

 

...... while excessive heat in transit would seem like the only explanation.....I can't help but wonder why we haven't seen more examples like this brought to light after so many CGC books have shipped over the years, Maybe a scenario where someone was downtown all day, say with two hookers, Cheetah the Chimp, and 6 gallons of whipped cream..... while the books sat on the stoop in the hot sun GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... all kidding aside, I've opened packages during the summer where I could literally feel the heat rush out of the box.....

This happened to me last year. Check out the last page to Boozad's "How to pack your books" thread that's stickied.

 

Mike

 

I looked at your photos in that thread. It appears to be the same problem. If the root cause is a change in the material being used in the inner wells, it appears to have been a problem since at least summer, given your experience.

[vaultkeeper]

Response to my query from Ineos, manufacturer of Barex:

 

The Heat Deflection Temperature for Barex is 170oF (~77 oC). Above this point Barex will soften fairly readily.

 

Thanks Kav. (thumbs u

 

I am a lab analyst working for Ineos. I have been testing resins for 15 years.

[kav]

I cant believe the depth of experience on these boards

[lizards2]

 

I'm afraid to admit I have some experience with this. I had very nearly $2K worth of books melted on a warm sunny day while they were displayed in a showcase at an outdoor market. They were under a UV protected tent, and not under direct sunlight. I wondered at the time how this could have happened as barex is supposed to have a melting point 317 degrees C and it couldn't have been hotter than 40 degrees with the humidity that day. All the books in Mylar in the same display were fine.

 

While we will probably never know exactly how this took place, your situation reopens the possibility that slabs could get damaged during transit (i.e. in a really warm delivery truck on a hot day). I don't know how Heritage allowed these to slip through as this kind of melt is pretty noticeable when you see the books in hand and shouldn't have been sold in this state.

 

166 degree C melt point

 

...... while excessive heat in transit would seem like the only explanation.....I can't help but wonder why we haven't seen more examples like this brought to light after so many CGC books have shipped over the years, Maybe a scenario where someone was downtown all day, say with two hookers, Cheetah the Chimp, and 6 gallons of whipped cream..... while the books sat on the stoop in the hot sun GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... all kidding aside, I've opened packages during the summer where I could literally feel the heat rush out of the box.....

This happened to me last year. Check out the last page to Boozad's "How to pack your books" thread that's stickied.

 

Mike

 

I looked at your photos in that thread. It appears to be the same problem. If the root cause is a change in the material being used in the inner wells, it appears to have been a problem since at least summer, given your experience.

 

That's what he said.

 

I found some old pictures...

 

 

 

It cost me a pretty penny. I had to pay to have it shipped back to CGC, & then when they said they would have to regrade it, I paid for that also. Oh well, live & learn. I'm just curious if there's something like putting too much bubble-wrap on or something.

 

Mike

[Bomber-Bob]

 

 

It cost me a pretty penny. I had to pay to have it shipped back to CGC, & then when they said they would have to regrade it, I paid for that also. Oh well, live & learn. I'm just curious if there's something like putting too much bubble-wrap on or something.

 

Mike

 

Wow. It looks like the grade went down to 6.0 and the PQ down to OW.