Do you haggle on price?

[stinkininkin]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

And that's the definition of masochism

 

 

True, but it's the natural progression of this hobby.

 

 

I've seen it follow this pattern somewhat consistently....

 

Phase One: " I really like this artwork collecting, must buy everything I see."

 

Phase Two: " I really like Batman, must buy all Batman I see."

 

Phase Three: " I really like Batman in the Bronze Age...must have everything"

 

Phase Four: " I really like Neal Adams Batman, that's my focus."

 

Phase Five: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano is really my focus. "

 

Phase Six: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974 is really really my focus."

 

Phase Seven: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974, and from the "Batman" title, is really really really my focus. "

 

 

 

More than any other hobby I have encountered tastes evolve as people discover, through appreciation and experience, what they really really love.

 

It takes time but, by the end, they've painted themselves into a pretty good corner.

 

Um, how did you get inside my head Chris? Did I leave the key under the door mat and you just let yourself right in? Boundaries man, boundaries...

 

Scott

[eewwnuk]

imo its worth attempting negotiation if you believe something is priced more than what you want to pay for it. some dealers are open to it. casual sellers are as well. and some artists price their art just as high as dealers so may as well try there too.

[comix4fun]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

And that's the definition of masochism

 

 

True, but it's the natural progression of this hobby.

 

 

I've seen it follow this pattern somewhat consistently....

 

Phase One: " I really like this artwork collecting, must buy everything I see."

 

Phase Two: " I really like Batman, must buy all Batman I see."

 

Phase Three: " I really like Batman in the Bronze Age...must have everything"

 

Phase Four: " I really like Neal Adams Batman, that's my focus."

 

Phase Five: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano is really my focus. "

 

Phase Six: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974 is really really my focus."

 

Phase Seven: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974, and from the "Batman" title, is really really really my focus. "

 

 

 

More than any other hobby I have encountered tastes evolve as people discover, through appreciation and experience, what they really really love.

 

It takes time but, by the end, they've painted themselves into a pretty good corner.

 

Um, how did you get inside my head Chris? Did I leave the key under the door mat and you just let yourself right in? Boundaries man, boundaries...

 

Scott

 

 

Did you find the assortment of chocolate strawberries and champagne I left on your pillow?

 

[Nexus]

I would never attempt to buy a piece from someone's CAF marked "not for sale", and then proceed to try and haggle. And I get offers like that so often, but it still shocks me.

 

As with everything regarding one of a kind original art, my approach to price and haggling has some generalities but every situation is unique and I act by what feels appropriate. I've haggled with dealers, I've haggled with individuals. I've haggled with artists even, when it feels right. But it depends on the relationship I have with each. I feel like all my best pieces come about via relationships with the art community rather than just tossing money about. Money always speaks, but sometimes connections can reach farther and into places that the money just isn't the be all end all. As such, I try to be respectful and keep an eye towards how I come across in each and every sale or purchase. There are consequences and reputations at stake for everyone.

 

When haggling, I often don't come in with a low offer straight off the bat. I ask the seller if they are at all flexible or if there is wiggle room. It gives both parties an out. Reading between the lines, I am letting them know the price is higher than I'd like to pull out the wallet for, and giving them the opportunity to continue a negotiation or snip it off at the outset. No one usually gets offended, and it keeps things superficial at first. Then I take things from there. Sometimes based on current market values, and sometimes just based on my own valuation. What's their piece worth to ME. Sometimes a balance of the two.

 

And to go the other way, every once in a while I have paid someone more than they were asking. Either because I thought they were under where they should be, or because it is worth more to ME. It seems a silly thing on the surface, to surprise someone with extra money they weren't asking for. To just give it away. But it just is my way of showing appreciation. I don't do it for any reason than it makes me happy to do so. Sending someone I like out to dinner with their family, or giving them a little bonus. But the knock on effect is that it has on occasion led to me being contacted or getting a heads up about other pieces first.

 

Like I said... relationships. I consider many people I've met via the Comicart-L, and CAF some of my best friends.

 

As for dealers, art galleries and directly with artists. It depends.

 

For the run-of-the-mill resellers of comic art, I assume at least some minor wheeling and dealing will be part of the process. Depends on how much I'm spending, with whom, and how many deals we've done in the past. After buying and even selling to someone over the years, I can get a feel for what their thresholds are and not risk embarrassment or offense. More often if something is just way too high, I don't bother. I've seen a lot of people that just suck at knowing how to choose their battles. It's like their eyes are too big and their checkbook too small to ever meet. And yet they try and talk people down to half. Really? Has that ever worked? Mostly I see artists and dealers that talk to each other, warning each other about "that guy". A major wasting of everyone's time.

 

For art galleries, artist reps, and directly from artists... I always assume a fresh to market work is a fixed price, and yes, offering less is at best, mildly insulting. Now I could see if buying in bulk, say a whole book or a large number of new pieces, that it wouldn't hurt to ask the old standby of "Would you be willing to give any kind of discount if...". When asked politely and with humility, it's an innocuous question. And one they are often willing to work with. BUT if a work is old, and by old, I mean been on a webstore or in a portfolio for sale for years, and it hasn't sold over and over again. But it's something I've been interested in and personally looked at on a number of occasions, I'm usually not too afraid to ask them if they'd be flexible on it's price as well. Generally I try to have an idea of where I need to be to take the piece home, but I usually let the seller offer up a discount first, and then go from there. I don't ever want anyone I deal with to feel like I've taken advantage of them or talked them into something. I'd much rather as much as possible that everyone is happy, because you never know who's going to have what down the line.

 

and speaking of... there are some dealers, artists and so on that I don't deal with. Some folks are just sharks and some are just touched in the head. I try not to waste my time.

 

-e.

 

Good stuff throughout this thread, but this is the post that nails it for me.

[Doc Joe]

 

 

 

[AKA Rick]

If a piece is prices reasonably I'd respectfully just pay the price for a few reasons.

 

1) Establishing a respectful business relationship. If you come off always being that person who can't or won't pay full price you often won't get consideration. That consideration typically is "first dibs" from a seller (be it an artist, rep or dealer) who gets fresh to market material they know you'd be interested in.

 

2) If there were others vying for the piece I'd hate to be penny wise and pound foolish in making a lower offer when a competing offer at full price then trumps mine and the piece becomes n/a.

 

3) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The Golden Rule. So, nothing is more irritating than dealing with buyers who haggle for the sake of wanting a better deal. i.e. If I have it priced at $100, they offer $75, but if I had it priced at $125, they would offer $100 for that same piece and be happy.

 

4) Haggling conditions some sellers to then expect to always provide discounts. It's like having the MRSP (manufacturer's suggested retail price) or the "Sticker" price on a car, and the attitude that nobody pays "asking" price. So, then sellers may inflate prices knowing they'll discount and the marketplace becomes a tad more wild wild west.

 

5) Some sellers, and this hobby is riddled by quirky characters get offended and turn a bit rude with less than gracious curbside manners when you offer any price other than what's listed. This is less of a determining factor to me other than sometimes it's nice to avoid awkward or uncomfortable situations. If you make a lower offer on a piece and it's declined, sometimes it feels uncomfortable (there's a perception from sensitive sellers you're trying to take advantage of 'em) to then turn around and pay the full price, especially if it's priced fairly from the start.

 

The best ways to negotiate (I like that term better than haggling, as it seems more proper, where the term haggling sounds a bit more crass approach) to me is:

 

A) if an item has been in the market for an extended period of time, let's say over 3 months and it remains unsold at the asking price.

 

B) if you're making multiple item purchases and are bundling them for a quantity discount

 

C) if the differential isn't that much but is the deal breaker for you. In other words, if a piece is $1,200 and you are only willing to pay $1,000 or walk away, then feel free to make that offer and if refused, no counteroffering. Often times, if you stick with your convictions, the offer may be refused, but then it may circle back around and be accepted hours, days, weeks, or months later once the seller realizes the item can't command the asking price.

 

[Rune]

Did try to haggle regarding my last piece (10% I'm a nice guy ), but then the dealer informed me that I was using an old link and the artist had taken back the piece and wanted to keep it

 

The dealer told me that he would be happy to try to get the piece back, but he did not think the artist would haggle.

 

Bummer

 

So much for my negotiation skills Had to, more or less, get on my knees and tell the dealer - please, please, please with a ton of sugar on top take my money and help me - I really need that piece to calm down my art cold turkey, of course I'll pay the full price (or much more if you want)

 

 

Need to read some more psychology books

 

Guess my problem was that I tried to haggle with a piece I would not want to lose, much like trying to haggle with kidnappers about the price they want for your kids

 

So I try to haggle too (when the price is fixed). Mostly I use auctions, at least then I know I'm not paying more for a piece than other persons would pay.

 

[vodou]

Guess my problem was that I tried to haggle with a piece I would not want to lose, much like trying to haggle with kidnappers about the price they want for your kids

Did you c/p this same post from somewhere in the past? I ask because I'm having the most extreme attack of deja vu here. Swear I read that same 'kidnappers' sentiment maybe two or three months ago!

[Meeley Man]

Some interesting thoughts and points here. But I do want to address one I've seen repeated, about not haggling with reps and artists.

 

Now, I'm an art rep. And while I can't speak for every rep and artist out there, I can say that in my experience, most artists are pretty pragmatic about this hobby. They understand that there is a certain level of "give and take" in doing this. That's why most of my artists do allow me leeway on most things I sell for them. So, in my own case, you should have no fear about haggling with me. You might not get what you want, or the answer might simply be "no," but my artists and I try to keep our expectation realistic, for the most part. I imagine I'm not the only rep who can say this, either.

 

Just some food for thought for all of you. Please, continue the discussion.

[JadeGiant]

Do I haggle, yes. Do I always haggle, no. I am not afraid to haggle with anyone – collector, rep, artist but it really comes down to a case by case situation for me. I don’t think it is taboo at all to negotiate as it is part of the art of this hobby. I don’t haggle if a great piece pops up that I really want and I think the price is right – don’t want to risk missing it. Unfortunately, this is not often the case as most everyone wants to squeeze the last dollar out of every piece which often drives the price up to that "best case scenario" price. The general rule of thumb I find is that they longer a piece has been for sale, the more open to haggling a seller will be.

[stinkininkin]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

And that's the definition of masochism

 

 

True, but it's the natural progression of this hobby.

 

 

I've seen it follow this pattern somewhat consistently....

 

Phase One: " I really like this artwork collecting, must buy everything I see."

 

Phase Two: " I really like Batman, must buy all Batman I see."

 

Phase Three: " I really like Batman in the Bronze Age...must have everything"

 

Phase Four: " I really like Neal Adams Batman, that's my focus."

 

Phase Five: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano is really my focus. "

 

Phase Six: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974 is really really my focus."

 

Phase Seven: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974, and from the "Batman" title, is really really really my focus. "

 

 

 

More than any other hobby I have encountered tastes evolve as people discover, through appreciation and experience, what they really really love.

 

It takes time but, by the end, they've painted themselves into a pretty good corner.

 

Um, how did you get inside my head Chris? Did I leave the key under the door mat and you just let yourself right in? Boundaries man, boundaries...

 

Scott

 

 

Did you find the assortment of chocolate strawberries and champagne I left on your pillow?

 

 

That was you? How nice. All is forgiven.

 

Scott

[Twanj]

So I try to haggle too (when the price is fixed). Mostly I use auctions, at least then I know I'm not paying more for a piece than other persons would pay.

 

wait, isn't that the definition of an auction?!

 

in an auction, you're paying the most that anyone will pay for something.

[Rune]

Guess my problem was that I tried to haggle with a piece I would not want to lose, much like trying to haggle with kidnappers about the price they want for your kids

Did you c/p this same post from somewhere in the past? I ask because I'm having the most extreme attack of deja vu here. Swear I read that same 'kidnappers' sentiment maybe two or three months ago!

 

No, at least I don't think so - unless my subconsciousness is playing a trick on me. Well at least it seems we do have a mutual understanding of the analogy

[Rune]

So I try to haggle too (when the price is fixed). Mostly I use auctions, at least then I know I'm not paying more for a piece than other persons would pay.

 

wait, isn't that the definition of an auction?!

 

in an auction, you're paying the most that anyone will pay for something.

 

Of course, my point being that when paying a fixed price you may be overpaying for a piece, so if a person is in doubt whether or not it's a good idea to pay a fixed price or close (to haggle or not to haggle), focusing on auctions may be a better choice.

 

Well, I do love to haggle - a more interesting question could be: What was the outcome of your best haggle - how many percent of the original price?

 

(Don't think I ever got more than 10 %, but again I never tried to get more. I probably have been more lucky in auctions - I have a few pieces I won for 20 to 50 % of my max bid (my max bids being close to some dealer's previous price suggestions))

[comix4fun]

So I try to haggle too (when the price is fixed). Mostly I use auctions, at least then I know I'm not paying more for a piece than other persons would pay.

 

wait, isn't that the definition of an auction?!

 

in an auction, you're paying the most that anyone will pay for something.

 

 

Well, that's not entirely true.

 

An auction winning bidder is really, "paying the most anyone who was paying attention that day and had the cash to spend, who isn't waiting for a later lot to come up for bids, or blew their money on an earlier lot" would pay. The trading aspect, the awareness aspect, and the liquidity aspect should not be under played.

 

For it to be the most anyone would pay for a piece, everyone would have to be participating at the auction and going their full max. That never happens.

[vodou]

What was the outcome of your best haggle - how many percent of the original price?

On comic art I've paid full when I knew the list price was a steal (for whatever reason) and gotten as much as 50% off on a large bulk deal (think ten, twenty or more pieces and five figures though). More typically 20-30% and free shipping on small lots or single items. Never less than 20% off. (10% isn't worth the trouble - at least for me.) That's where I start, 20% off and free shipping. Then I'll start adding pieces if I smell blood (desperate seller) and move toward 30%. I also like rounding things off, say something is listed at $300, I'll go right to $200 and be willing to go up to $225 and free shipping.

 

Those of you that read the above and think I'm nuts...try being more aggressive the next time it's not a piece you have to have. (And if you only go after pieces you have to have, you're doing it all wrong anyway!) Work your poker face (or e-mail nonchalance parlance) to the max and be willing to pick that cash up off the table and let them see it walking away...it brings tears to their eyes and the deal is yours. NOTE: this does not work with Albert Moy

[vodou]

For it to be the most anyone would pay for a piece, everyone would have to be participating at the auction and going their full max. That never happens.

Yep. And that is why I don't own Miller's squatting Batman DKR cover. Or at least didn't make the top bidder go past 700k. That's where I was willing to go if I had a year to work up the capital selling down pieces out of my collection in an orderly fashion. Doing so in the space of a two month lead from when Heritage posted the lot, that would have been disorderly, and I don't do that.

[Bird]

What was the outcome of your best haggle - how many percent of the original price?

On comic art I've paid full when I knew the list price was a steal (for whatever reason) and gotten as much as 50% off on a large bulk deal (think ten, twenty or more pieces and five figures though). More typically 20-30% and free shipping on small lots or single items. Never less than 20% off. (10% isn't worth the trouble - at least for me.) That's where I start, 20% off and free shipping. Then I'll start adding pieces if I smell blood (desperate seller) and move toward 30%. I also like rounding things off, say something is listed at $300, I'll go right to $200 and be willing to go up to $225 and free shipping.

 

Those of you that read the above and think I'm nuts...try being more aggressive the next time it's not a piece you have to have. (And if you only go after pieces you have to have, you're doing it all wrong anyway!) Work your poker face (or e-mail nonchalance parlance) to the max and be willing to pick that cash up off the table and let them see it walking away...it brings tears to their eyes and the deal is yours. NOTE: this does not work with Albert Moy

 

At the last comic art con I tried to haggle with Albert on the Mignola Starman/Batman/Hellboy he has had priced at $7K for a few years now. I was hoping to get it for $5K. We danced around a little but it was clear he wasn't even coming down to $6500, so $5K was not going to happen. So we got to talking about other things, and other pieces, and next thing I know we are trading 3 pieces each (not the Mignola though) and it was a very fair and equitable deal. But he was not interested in the haggle.

[Rune]

NOTE: this does not work with Albert Moy

 

I realize that... now My last piece, the Batman #670 Ra's Al Ghul variant cover, was from Moy

 

Guess what matters is not if I won or lost, but that I tried

 

 

[AKA Rick]

 

 

A huge negotiation tool is utilizing cash for payment in full.

 

No time payments, checks, or credit cards.