Star Wars Comic No. 1 Hoard 0

[lou_fine]

I think the story is plausible. When I first caught wind of the comic I was already too late to buy at below cover. I ended up buying 50 copies off a distributor for 65¢ each. Back then, there were a lot of distributors. The Buyers Guide was full of ads from small distributors. Even after all these years, I still have a few left. I'm sure there huge stashes still to be brought out to the market.

 

 

You have to realize that we are talking about almost 40 years ago where the distribution channels were fragmented and light years apart from the Diamond monopoly in place today.

 

If you listen to Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone, it's simply amazing as to what could be found in some of those distribution warehouses at the time. For example, 60 Spidey #1's and 20 FF #1's along with 10 to 20 copies of every other Marvel comic ever published. Other examples included finding 200 DD #1's and another with 6 unopened boxes or 600 copies of FF #48. Paying $18K for a warehouse filled with 150,000 to 200,000 comics in which they had to sort and wholesale them off in a 48 to 72 hour time period, and then being left with a carload of books as their profit margin. I guess when Overstreet talked about distribution or warehouse finds in the early price guides of the 70's, these finds were what he was referring to.

 

Interesting insight on some of the personalities involved in the comics at the time who would subsequently become power players in the industry. Stephen Fishler who started with Jay and Sparkle City as a teenager before forming his own company. Steve Geppi back in the days as a dealer and collector before he got into the distribution side of the business. We can also hear his opinions of industry stalwarts at the time such as Chuck Rozanski, Ernie Gerber, etc.

 

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

[gregreece]

I think the story is plausible. When I first caught wind of the comic I was already too late to buy at below cover. I ended up buying 50 copies off a distributor for 65¢ each. Back then, there were a lot of distributors. The Buyers Guide was full of ads from small distributors. Even after all these years, I still have a few left. I'm sure there huge stashes still to be brought out to the market.

 

 

You have to realize that we are talking about almost 40 years ago where the distribution channels were fragmented and light years apart from the Diamond monopoly in place today.

 

If you listen to Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone, it's simply amazing as to what could be found in some of those distribution warehouses at the time. For example, 60 Spidey #1's and 20 FF #1's along with 10 to 20 copies of every other Marvel comic ever published. Other examples included finding 200 DD #1's and another with 6 unopened boxes or 600 copies of FF #48. Paying $18K for a warehouse filled with 150,000 to 200,000 comics in which they had to sort and wholesale them off in a 48 to 72 hour time period, and then being left with a carload of books as their profit margin. I guess when Overstreet talked about distribution or warehouse finds in the early price guides of the 70's, these finds were what he was referring to.

 

Interesting insight on some of the personalities involved in the comics at the time who would subsequently become power players in the industry. Stephen Fishler who started with Jay and Sparkle City as a teenager before forming his own company. Steve Geppi back in the days as a dealer and collector before he got into the distribution side of the business. We can also hear his opinions of industry stalwarts at the time such as Chuck Rozanski, Ernie Gerber, etc.

 

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

 

Long time Maryland dealer Gene Carpenter has told me on more than 1 occasion that FF 48's were on his .50 table in the early '70's. He, along other dealers, had dozens and he said while it was a steady seller, no one bought multiple copies. He finally moved them to his $1 table and felt like he was getting rich.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

 

I'm more than happy to go find this link if you could provide a little more information about it. Sounds like a great read.

[thirdgreenham]

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

 

I'm more than happy to go find this link if you could provide a little more information about it. Sounds like a great read.

 

[MediumLover]

You can find the link on Metro's home page.

[MediumLover]

Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone,

[RCheli]

Here's the thing though. A lot of people who grew up loving Star Wars are old enough to have bought their copies awhile ago for cheaper, or decided already they don't need the comic. Whereas a lot of people who grew up loving Venom are still trying to get theirs.

 

The people speculating on the Star Wars NOW are hoping that their love will be awakened and they'll want the comic.

 

Two weeks ago at a con a guy comes up to me and sells me a copy of Star Wars #1. I bought it for around 75% of what I priced it at because I knew it would sell. I had it on my wall for 2 hours before somebody bought it. In that 2 hours, about 10 people asked to look at it.

 

It may be common, but it's still a very desirable book.

[Lazyboy]

BTW. it's commonly stated that Star Wars #1 comic came out "several months" before the movie, but I don't remember it that way, and at least for me, it was very close. I think the Star Wars #1 hit the shelves slightly before the movie, but I don't believe it was "several months" as I remember waiting for issues 2-4 to come out, and I had already seen the movie.

 

Star Wars #1 has a cover date of July 1977, which if you back-dated it the usual 2 months, would make the shelf date May 1977, the same time as the Star Wars movie release. That's about how I remember it.

 

Release date for Star Wars 1 was Friday, April 15, 1977. Two and a half weeks.

 

Actually, if you check Google, it is relatively easy to find out the shipped dates and on-sale dates for the Star Wars comic book, which are as follows:

 

1) Star Wars #1 had a shipped date of March 8th and an on-sale date of April 12th;

 

2) Star Wars #2 had a shipped date of April 12th and an on-sale date of May 10th; while

 

3) Star Wars #3 had a shipped date of May 10th and an on-sale date of June 7th.

 

Since the Star Wars movie was not released until May 25th, this means that the first 2 issues were already out on the newsstand well prior to the movie's release. With a shipped date of May 10th for SW 3, this means that comic shops probably did not increase their initial orders for the Star Wars comic book due to the popularity of the movie until issue #4.

 

Star Wars was 1977, not 2007. The direct market barely existed and certainly wasn't influential to the point that print runs were based on initial orders from specialty shops.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

 

I'm more than happy to go find this link if you could provide a little more information about it. Sounds like a great read.

 

 

Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone,

 

[MediumLover]

One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

 

I'm more than happy to go find this link if you could provide a little more information about it. Sounds like a great read.

 

 

Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone,

 

 

It is your expertise that I aspire to emulate.

Edited July 13, 2015 by MediumLover

[RockMyAmadeus]

This crazy book has always suffered from a massive amount of misinformation, some of it still being repeated in this thread.

 

Here are the facts:

 

Star Wars #1 came out weeks to months before the movie. Cover date is July, 1977. In those days, both Marvel and DC publication (that is, "this book is now for sale") dates ran three (not two) months ahead of cover dates (a situation that would not change until late 1988 for DC, and late 1989 for Marvel...ever wonder why all Marvels in late 1989 have "MID" copies, when they weren't bi-weekly? And just what is "Holiday" and "Winter" issues of DC?), meaning that this would put the publication of the book in April of 1977.

 

Star Wars #4....the first issue for which the US Copyright office has searchable, online information, was published on June 14, 1977:

 

v. 1, no. 4, Oct77. Claimant: Twentieth Centry-Fox Film Corporation. Appl. author: entire work except p. 12, 18, 20, 28 & 29: Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation, employer for hire. Created 1977; Pub. 1977-06-14; Reg. 1979-02-16; TX0000196314

 

That is the entry, exactly as it appears. The USCO obviously has the other books' information, but it is not in its online database.

 

We know from direct experience and testimony that the publication dates for the USCO are almost always the same as the release/for sale dates, within the week, which would (generally) put the #1 as being published/on sale in March.

 

Yes, I understand that some sites say "Ship date March 8, on sale date April 12", but this has no meaning. Ship date from where? Sparta? Marvel comics were printed at Sparta in 1977, as World Color printed the vast majority of all magazines at that point. Everything was allocated at World Color's massive breakdown warehouse, and then shipped directly to the ~500 ID wholesalers around the country, based on their orders. Since comics were so low on the pole for these ID wholesalers, yes, it sometimes took a couple of weeks to get comics, once printed, to the actual newsstand to sell them (which is why the DM became such a roaring success so quickly...timeliness.)

 

But...it didn't take five weeks for the books to be shipped from World Color's breakdown warehouse and then placed on the newsstand.

 

As Lazyboy alluded to, this was 1977, not 2007, and distribution still worked "the old way." There was no such thing as an "on the street date" that was official until well into the 1980's, unless we're talking about the DM, and in 1977, the DM was still embryonic, and had practically zero influence on the larger distribution system...yet.

 

That doesn't mean, however, that the books didn't appear at different times, in different regions, throughout the US.

 

That said, it is safe to say that #1 appeared on the stands "sometime in late March/early April of 1977", well in advance of the film's release, and #2 came out (and perhaps #3 as well) before the film as well.

 

Star Wars the movie wasn't supposed to be a hit; production delays pushed the release date back from its original December, 1976 release to May. Studio execs feared they had a flop on their hands. The Fox board watched a rough cut of the film...and their reaction was "meh." The first test audience...their reaction was positive, but not earth shattering. In fact, producer Gary Kurtz has a survey card that said "“This is the worst film I’ve ever seen since Godzilla versus the Smog Monster.”"

 

Why is this important? Because the Star Wars COMIC wasn't a hit, either...at first.

 

People may retroactively "remember" things differently, but the facts are still the facts. In 1977, the big thing in comics was "#1." #1 this, and #1 that. As long as it was "#1!!!", it was a big seller. #2, and on? Forget it. But that #1 was a surefire hit, which is why you see more concentrations of #1s from both Marvel and DC from 1976 to 1979 than almost any other period of time in their history, until the 1990's. It was #1 mania, and it was fueled by Shazam, and Howard the Duck, and all sorts of #1s that had taken the hobby by storm.

 

In that environment came Star Wars #1. So, yes, it was going to have a "larger than average" print run....but average for a #1, like Logan's Run or Ms. Marvel, as Mike stated.

 

Sidenote: Star Wars #1 35s weren't produced in any higher or lower numbers than the rest of the 35s, according to Sol Brodsky, and had no bearing on the print run of the regular copies. These were test books, printed for test purposes, distributed to test cities, completely separate and apart from the regular print runs of these titles. It would have made absolutely zero sense whatsoever to not have a CONTROL on the test books, and that control was the same print run for all of them. Having them be some sort of percentage of print run, making every issue have a different number printed, would have made the test results much harder to figure out.

 

And as rjrjr stated, the reason Star Wars #1 35 is more common today is because it was the only one recognized for decades, and it was recognized almost immediately. The amount of 35 cent variants extant does tell you something about the print run of the 30 cent version, and that is: absolutely nothing whatsoever.

 

Was Star Wars #1 a "hit" from the very first day?

 

 

Hard to say.

 

It was a new #1...but there were lots of new #1s, and new #1s were in the spotlight in those days. So, as a new #1, it certainly would have gotten a share of that.

 

Was it a hit because of the movie? No, clearly, not immediately, because it came out weeks to a couple of months BEFORE the film came out.

 

Was it a hit AFTER the movie came out?

 

Oh yes, without a doubt, a monster, monster hit. As rjrjr said, it was reprinted immediately 4 times, and then reprinted constantly after that in multiple formats for years.

 

But was it a "hit" because it was "Star Wars" on, say, May 3rd, 1977....?

 

All evidence says "not really."

 

And that means that the print run for the first printing, regular copies...even though they were hoarded and saved, just like the rest of the #1s of that era....weren't hoarded and saved in any greater numbers initially (that is, in any numbers higher than what was already being done at the time with other books.)

 

I would also be surprised if someone was able to order 500 copies from a "comic book distributor." At the time, pretty much the only one doing Direct market comic book distribution was Phil Seuling and a tiny handful of others, and REMEMBER: there is no Direct Market version of #1, but there IS a DM version of #2-up (boy, would it be handy to have the old STL web pages back again. ) Marvel was still in its cover marking test phase at this time, testing the fat diamonds to see if the DM would work.

 

This helps:

 

http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-tell-if-your-Star-Wars-Comics-are-REPRINTS-/10000000178300524/g.html

 

But even it has flawed information (such as comic shops not getting the Direct Market test copies. They did. The Fat Diamonds weren't solely produced for Whitman, though Whitman was far and away the largest purchaser of them. He also makes no mention of the books marked "reprint" on the first page near the indicia.)

 

500 copies for one customer of one comic book distributor would have been quite substantial, EXCEPT FOR Western (Whitman), which was ordering its own scads of books for its three packs. It is vital to point out that not a single Whitman 3-pack of Star Wars is known to have contained a regular, first printing #1. DM #2-up? Yes. Reprints? Oh yes. But #1? Nope, not a single one. Western didn't order any (and they had a habit of not ordering #1s anyway.) There IS some sort of hybrid test-thingie, but that is known by only 2 or maybe 3 copies, which has a fat diamond and a UPC code, which would make it like the regular Whitman/DM copies of #2-4, but again...there are only 2-3 known, which means it certainly didn't get distributed.

 

So, it is much more likely that fuzzy memory is once again at play, and they were ordered from the usual ID wholesale system.

 

Finally, remember: Don't believe half of what you read, and none of what you hear, including what I write. Find out for yourself. A lot of stuff is pulled straight out of thin air, and "retconned", due to fuzzy memory, into existence, that never happened. Just because someone is loud and brusque doesn't mean they are correct. Research, question, analyze, challenge.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

If this is how simply the market worked then literally almost no price for a 9.8 copy would be "too high" (and fear not, there are far, far more than the 350, 9.8 copies out there than we see on the census now, which are already far, far more 9.8 copies than every other bona fide Bronze Age key)..

 

-J.

 

The are 346 9.8s of all flavors of Star Wars #1.

 

There are 373 Spectacular Spiderman #1s.

 

There are 150 Nova #1s.

 

There are 99 Ms. Marvel #1s, although Ms. Marvel is a late player to the game.

 

There are 210 X-Men #121s.

 

(And this all assumes no duplication!)

 

I don't know if that is "far, far more 9.8 copies than every other bona fide BA key", but Star Wars #1 has been the most important book of 1977 since the beginning. Of course, it's going to have more higher grade copies than most....but it still doesn't beat PPSS #1.

 

It probably will...but a lot of the other "bona fide Bronze Age keys" from this era still aren't worth slabbing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I remember the Star Wars comic book did not catch on until issue #3 was out or around the time the movie debuted. I remember Star Wars #1 were already going for $10 or more at the time.

 

$10 by late May? That would be quite a shocking price (equivalent to a $2.95 cover price book being $100 in two months today.)

 

If there was any hoarding done, it was probably not done by the collectors of the day. Sure, there were more copies available in the marketplace afterwards, but these were most likely from unsold initial returns sitting in the distributor's warehouses which were now being actively hunted down.

 

Yes, this is likely true. The movie happened in enough time that unsold returns were still waiting to be processed, and quickly vacuumed back out into the marketplace.

 

This was probably one of the first "off the shelf" books to go up in price like that so quickly and was most likely one of the first books to start the subsequent hoarding that would become commonplace with Modern books.

 

The first "off the shelf" books to go up in price were ASM #121 and #122, in 1973. That was the first time in comics history that there became a fairly instantaneous back issue demand for a brand new book. They took the comics world by surprise. Even Conan #1 wasn't as sought after as quickly as those two.

 

Then, there was Shazam #1, and then Howard the Duck #1....both victims of "questionable" distribution methods...and others before SW #1.

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

 

I remember the Star Wars comic book did not catch on until issue #3 was out or around the time the movie debuted. I remember Star Wars #1 were already going for $10 or more at the time.

 

$10 by late May? That would be quite a shocking price (equivalent to a $2.95 cover price book being $100 in two months today.)

 

If there was any hoarding done, it was probably not done by the collectors of the day. Sure, there were more copies available in the marketplace afterwards, but these were most likely from unsold initial returns sitting in the distributor's warehouses which were now being actively hunted down.

 

Yes, this is likely true. The movie happened in enough time that unsold returns were still waiting to be processed, and quickly vacuumed back out into the marketplace.

 

This was probably one of the first "off the shelf" books to go up in price like that so quickly and was most likely one of the first books to start the subsequent hoarding that would become commonplace with Modern books.

 

The first "off the shelf" books to go up in price were ASM #121 and #122, in 1973. That was the first time in comics history that there became a fairly instantaneous back issue demand for a brand new book. They took the comics world by surprise. Even Conan #1 wasn't as sought after as quickly as those two.

 

Then, there was Shazam #1, and then Howard the Duck #1....both victims of "questionable" distribution methods...and others before SW #1.

 

What was questionable about Shazam and Howard the Duck? Just curious...

[joe_collector]

BTW. it's commonly stated that Star Wars #1 comic came out "several months" before the movie, but I don't remember it that way, and at least for me, it was very close. I think the Star Wars #1 hit the shelves slightly before the movie, but I don't believe it was "several months" as I remember waiting for issues 2-4 to come out, and I had already seen the movie.

 

Star Wars #1 has a cover date of July 1977, which if you back-dated it the usual 2 months, would make the shelf date May 1977, the same time as the Star Wars movie release. That's about how I remember it.

 

Release date for Star Wars 1 was Friday, April 15, 1977. Two and a half weeks.

 

That sounds about right to me.

[joe_collector]

[Long time Maryland dealer Gene Carpenter has told me on more than 1 occasion that FF 48's were on his .50 table in the early '70's. He, along other dealers, had dozens and he said while it was a steady seller, no one bought multiple copies.

 

That's because first appearances weren't that popular back then, and it was the Number One Issues that everyone was after. It wasn't until the mid-80's, when the sportscard dealers invaded comics with their "rookie card" mentality, that first appearances really skyrocketed.

[Fan Boy]

[Long time Maryland dealer Gene Carpenter has told me on more than 1 occasion that FF 48's were on his .50 table in the early '70's. He, along other dealers, had dozens and he said while it was a steady seller, no one bought multiple copies.

 

That's because first appearances weren't that popular back then, and it was the Number One Issues that everyone was after. It wasn't until the mid-80's, when the sportscard dealers invaded comics with their "rookie card" mentality, that first appearances really skyrocketed.

 

That was possibility true what you said about the "rookie card" mentality back in the mid-80s. I remembered many sportscard dealers tried to enter the comic book collecting community, and added their idea in there. During my collecting days, I was only after #1 issues and full runs, not the 1st appearances.

 

Then I get the wind of this idea. I took time with my thoughts and realized that there is some value to the idea. So, I begin to check with 1st appearances onward. Now it's everywhere all over gone crazy!

 

Back to the Star Wars #1 ... yes it was released before the movie come out. I did brought #1 and 2 before I get to see the movie then.

[joe_collector]

[Long time Maryland dealer Gene Carpenter has told me on more than 1 occasion that FF 48's were on his .50 table in the early '70's. He, along other dealers, had dozens and he said while it was a steady seller, no one bought multiple copies.

 

That's because first appearances weren't that popular back then, and it was the Number One Issues that everyone was after. It wasn't until the mid-80's, when the sportscard dealers invaded comics with their "rookie card" mentality, that first appearances really skyrocketed.

 

That was possibility true what you said about the "rookie card" mentality back in the mid-80s. I remembered many sportscard dealers tried to enter the comic book collecting community, and added their idea in there. During my collecting days, I was only after #1 issues and full runs, not the 1st appearances.

 

Exactly, and people forget that that pre-sportscard dealer hobby was centered on #1 issues, full runs, important artists, key stories, *and* first appearances, but it wasn't until the mid-80's that the "rookie card" phenomenon took over. Most key first appearances were in the $10-$30 range throughout the 80's, then picked up in 85-86 when some sportscard dealers took notice, then exploded in 1987-89, when the sportscard dealers descended en masse.

 

And I'm not just making this up, as it was widely reported in Overstreet and other industry publications.

 

P.S. That's what makes me laugh at newbies who say "I wish I was collecting in the 70's and 80's, as I would have 100 Hulk 181's" - yeah right, all these dorks would be holding onto boxes of Ka-Zar #1, Eternals #1, Micronauts #1, and Man of Steel #1.

[ft88]

Hulk 181 took forever to break out though. Look at Overstreet and other ads selling books. It always seemed less than Xmen 94 and GS 1.

 

Back to a stack of 100 Star Wars 1's. I'm pretty sure the market could absorb the 9.8's that come out of this. Even adjusting that these are stacked together and self protected, I don't think you get more than a 30% hit rate on 9.8's. Black cover and all the other possibilities of wear over the years.

 

Ed

[joe_collector]

I don't know-- I recall Hulk 181 being pretty popular immediately. I can see people hoarding that book even back then.

 

Nope, and it's because the book was a consistent $25-$30 book for years, and people didn't see much upside, otherwise I would buy a collection and find 25-50 copies of Hulk 181 rather than stacks of Eternals 1, Ka-Zar 1, Howard the Duck 1, PPSSM 1, Micronauts 1, Ms Marvel 1, Star Wars 1, etc.

 

I realize it's difficult to understand today, but prior to the sportscard dealer invasion, virtually *all* of the speculator hoarding was based on #1 issues, with a bit on the side for "hot artists".