Star Wars Comic No. 1 Hoard 0

[Buzzetta]

I bought a mid grade Hulk 181 for $50 in the early 90's. I remember the price because I remember being yelled screamed at for it as if I bought a handful of magic beans.

[joe_collector]

I bought a mid grade Hulk 181 for $50 in the early 90's. I remember the price because I remember being yelled screamed at for it as if I bought a handful of magic beans.

 

I remember being at a show in 1987 and there was a dealer with literally a table-full (3 big stacks) of Hulk 181 screaming "Hulk 181, only thirty bucks!" at the top of his lungs and there were virtually no takers.

 

I was zoning in on Byrne X-Men at the time, but as I passed by,I still remember a couple of guys asking him if "he had any early-Simonson Thors" while totally disregarding the stacks of Hulk 181's from an obvious warehouse find.

 

And lest we forget, Thor 337 was the most valuable Thor issue from the entire run in OS during the mid-late 80's, and a very desirable book at the time. It still proves the point that what is hot today is not what was hot back then, no matter what your 20-20 hindsight would like you to believe.

[joe_collector]

It was an important book, but it just sat at $20-$30 dollars for almost a decade, and wasn't "hot" in that respect. The same level as FF 48, ASM 50, etc. - important, but not burning up the OS reports or price lists. That is, until 86-89, when the sportscard dealers enveloped the hobby and promoted a "rookie card" mindset by buying up all the major first appearances, and driving prices sky high.

 

Go back and read some OS market reports from 1980-87 and see what was really selling at "red hot" levels during that time period, and I doubt that Hulk 181 will be taking up a significant portion of those sections.

 

And as for supply, Hulk 181 was a notable part of many warehouse finds, including the monstrous Mile High 2 find, in which Chuck stated in his ads that he had Hulk 181's in "any quantity".

[Gatsby77]

 

Then, there was Shazam #1, and then Howard the Duck #1....both victims of "questionable" distribution methods...and others before SW #1.

 

What was questionable about Shazam and Howard the Duck? Just curious...

 

I don't know about Howard the Duck # 1 but I recall from an early 90s article that two guys bought several trucks worth of Shazam # 1 that amounted to 40% of the print run. Consequently, the book never even made it to the stands in several parts of the country -- including the West Coast.

 

As of the late 1980s/ early '90s, it was believed that their hoard remained intact.

[Jaydogrules]

 

If this is how simply the market worked then literally almost no price for a 9.8 copy would be "too high" (and fear not, there are far, far more than the 350, 9.8 copies out there than we see on the census now, which are already far, far more 9.8 copies than every other bona fide Bronze Age key)..

 

-J.

 

The are 346 9.8s of all flavors of Star Wars #1.

 

There are 373 Spectacular Spiderman #1s.

 

There are 150 Nova #1s.

 

There are 99 Ms. Marvel #1s, although Ms. Marvel is a late player to the game.

 

There are 210 X-Men #121s.

 

(And this all assumes no duplication!)

 

I don't know if that is "far, far more 9.8 copies than every other bona fide BA key", but Star Wars #1 has been the most important book of 1977 since the beginning. Of course, it's going to have more higher grade copies than most....but it still doesn't beat PPSS #1.

 

It probably will...but a lot of the other "bona fide Bronze Age keys" from this era still aren't worth slabbing.

 

When I say "bona fide keys" I am referring to books that indeed are (and have been) slab worthy in nearly every grade other than 9.6/9.8 since the advent of CGC. (I don't consider PPSM to be a "key" either BTW, and I'm a foaming at the mouth Spider-man fan).

 

In that regards, SW 1 blows every other book out of the water with its copious amounts of 9.8's that have already been slabbed even prior to the speculative movie hype that has bloated its apparent "FMV" to its current levels. Here's just a small sampling for comparison:

 

ASM 129, 9.8's- 93

 

IH 181, 9.8's- 26

 

GL 76, 9.8's- 2

 

X Men 94, 9.8's- 26

 

Conan, 9.8's- 37

 

WWBN 32, 9.8's- 11

 

TOD 10, 9.8's- 24

 

Marvel Spotlight 5, 9.8's - 2

 

 

Star Wars 1, 9.8's- 346

 

In many cases the tremendous amounts of SW 1, 9.8's exceed those keys books' numbers in 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, etc. combined.

 

-J.

 

 

[JazzMan]

I bought Star Wars 1 off the racks. Read through it (the story contains portions that were cut from the movie) and thought this was a piece of garbage. The art was awful. It made Frank Robbins looks like Rembrandt. I remember I traded it for a Marvel Two-in-One. I have a copy now, but I still think the art is terrible.

[Buzzetta]

I have a 9.6 and a 9.4. Perhaps I will put one of them up for sale on eBay and capitalize on the fervor.

[Gatsby77]

 

When I say "bona fide keys" I am referring to books that indeed are (and have been) slab worthy in nearly every grade other than 9.6/9.8 since the advent of CGC. (I don't consider PPSM to be a "key" either BTW, and I'm a foaming at the mouth Spider-man fan).

 

In that regards, SW 1 blows every other book out of the water with its copious amounts of 9.8's that have already been slabbed even prior to the speculative movie hype that has bloated its apparent "FMV" to its current levels. Here's just a small sampling for comparison:

 

ASM 129, 9.8's- 93

 

IH 181, 9.8's- 26

 

GL 76, 9.8's- 2

 

X Men 94, 9.8's- 26

 

Conan, 9.8's- 37

 

WWBN 32, 9.8's- 11

 

TOD 10, 9.8's- 24

 

Marvel Spotlight 5, 9.8's - 2

 

 

Star Wars 1, 9.8's- 346

 

In many cases the tremendous amounts of SW 1, 9.8's exceed those keys books' numbers in 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, etc. combined.

 

-J.

 

 

That's a good chart but the implicit logical flaw is discounting that every other book on that list was published in 1975 or before, at the very infancy of the direct market.

 

You can't really compare high-grade populations of 1970-1975 books to 1976-1980 books any more than you can compare the vastly lower quantities of 1960-1964 books relative to their 1965-1970 counterparts.

 

Yes -- there are _huge_ numbers of Star Wars # 1 out there. But there are also huge numbers of its peers -- Peter Parker # 1 (347 9.8s), Nova # 1 (134 9.8s) and She Hulk # 1 (755 9.8s).

 

Likewise, it's specious to claim that these latter books weren't "slab worthy...since the advent of CGC" because these 1976-1980 books have only become truly valuable within the last 15 years.

 

A 1977 book was 23 years old at the advent of CGC; vs. 38 years old today.

[Jaydogrules]

 

When I say "bona fide keys" I am referring to books that indeed are (and have been) slab worthy in nearly every grade other than 9.6/9.8 since the advent of CGC. (I don't consider PPSM to be a "key" either BTW, and I'm a foaming at the mouth Spider-man fan).

 

In that regards, SW 1 blows every other book out of the water with its copious amounts of 9.8's that have already been slabbed even prior to the speculative movie hype that has bloated its apparent "FMV" to its current levels. Here's just a small sampling for comparison:

 

ASM 129, 9.8's- 93

 

IH 181, 9.8's- 26

 

GL 76, 9.8's- 2

 

X Men 94, 9.8's- 26

 

Conan, 9.8's- 37

 

WWBN 32, 9.8's- 11

 

TOD 10, 9.8's- 24

 

Marvel Spotlight 5, 9.8's - 2

 

 

Star Wars 1, 9.8's- 346

 

In many cases the tremendous amounts of SW 1, 9.8's exceed those keys books' numbers in 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, etc. combined.

 

-J.

 

 

That's a good chart but the implicit logical flaw is discounting that every other book on that list was published in 1975 or before, at the very infancy of the direct market.

 

You can't really compare high-grade populations of 1970-1975 books to 1976-1980 books any more than you can compare the vastly lower quantities of 1960-1964 books relative to their 1965-1970 counterparts.

 

Yes -- there are _huge_ numbers of Star Wars # 1 out there. But there are also huge numbers of its peers -- Peter Parker # 1 (347 9.8s), Nova # 1 (134 9.8s) and She Hulk # 1 (755 9.8s).

 

Likewise, it's specious to claim that these latter books weren't "slab worthy...since the advent of CGC" because these 1976-1980 books have only become truly valuable within the last 15 years.

 

A 1977 book was 23 years old at the advent of CGC; vs. 38 years old today.

 

The "reasons" why there are extreme amounts of SW 1 in a 9.8 out there (compared to actual BA keys) was irrelevant to my analysis. You are also lumping SW 1 with other "not-key", mass collected and hoarded books that only sell for a couple hundred dollars to maybe $700 max (that being Nova 1, which is also the beneficiary of a temporarily bloated movie hype bubble like SW 1). I do agree that SW 1 does belong in that same "value" tier as those books, but for the moment at least, it is not in that value tier, it is closer to the books I listed (at least in 9.8). Hence some of these nonsensical prices we are seeing on ebay for SW 1 need to be placed in a similar context, since this book is "as common as dirt" as they say, and readily available in mass quantities in a 9.8, as opposed to the bona fide BA keys that I mentioned, that are not. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Jaydogrules

[the blob]

Hulk 181 took forever to break out though. Look at Overstreet and other ads selling books. It always seemed less than Xmen 94 and GS 1.

 

Back to a stack of 100 Star Wars 1's. I'm pretty sure the market could absorb the 9.8's that come out of this. Even adjusting that these are stacked together and self protected, I don't think you get more than a 30% hit rate on 9.8's. Black cover and all the other possibilities of wear over the years.

 

Ed

 

yes, because it was $20-$25 and X-Men 94 and GS 1 were $75-$100 or more, but $20-$25 was a lot relatively speaking 30+ years ago and certainly among the highs among 1970s first appearances.

[the blob]

 

When I say "bona fide keys" I am referring to books that indeed are (and have been) slab worthy in nearly every grade other than 9.6/9.8 since the advent of CGC. (I don't consider PPSM to be a "key" either BTW, and I'm a foaming at the mouth Spider-man fan).

 

In that regards, SW 1 blows every other book out of the water with its copious amounts of 9.8's that have already been slabbed even prior to the speculative movie hype that has bloated its apparent "FMV" to its current levels. Here's just a small sampling for comparison:

 

ASM 129, 9.8's- 93

 

IH 181, 9.8's- 26

 

GL 76, 9.8's- 2

 

X Men 94, 9.8's- 26

 

Conan, 9.8's- 37

 

WWBN 32, 9.8's- 11

 

TOD 10, 9.8's- 24

 

Marvel Spotlight 5, 9.8's - 2

 

 

Star Wars 1, 9.8's- 346

 

In many cases the tremendous amounts of SW 1, 9.8's exceed those keys books' numbers in 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, etc. combined.

 

-J.

 

 

That's a good chart but the implicit logical flaw is discounting that every other book on that list was published in 1975 or before, at the very infancy of the direct market.

 

You can't really compare high-grade populations of 1970-1975 books to 1976-1980 books any more than you can compare the vastly lower quantities of 1960-1964 books relative to their 1965-1970 counterparts.

 

Yes -- there are _huge_ numbers of Star Wars # 1 out there. But there are also huge numbers of its peers -- Peter Parker # 1 (347 9.8s), Nova # 1 (134 9.8s) and She Hulk # 1 (755 9.8s).

 

Likewise, it's specious to claim that these latter books weren't "slab worthy...since the advent of CGC" because these 1976-1980 books have only become truly valuable within the last 15 years.

 

A 1977 book was 23 years old at the advent of CGC; vs. 38 years old today.

 

The "reasons" why there are extreme amounts of SW 1 in a 9.8 out there (compared to actual BA keys) was irrelevant to my analysis.

 

That there are that many (and counting) was the beginning and end of my point. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Much broader market than any of those other books though, so I think the # of copies can be absorbed.

[Jaydogrules]

 

When I say "bona fide keys" I am referring to books that indeed are (and have been) slab worthy in nearly every grade other than 9.6/9.8 since the advent of CGC. (I don't consider PPSM to be a "key" either BTW, and I'm a foaming at the mouth Spider-man fan).

 

In that regards, SW 1 blows every other book out of the water with its copious amounts of 9.8's that have already been slabbed even prior to the speculative movie hype that has bloated its apparent "FMV" to its current levels. Here's just a small sampling for comparison:

 

ASM 129, 9.8's- 93

 

IH 181, 9.8's- 26

 

GL 76, 9.8's- 2

 

X Men 94, 9.8's- 26

 

Conan, 9.8's- 37

 

WWBN 32, 9.8's- 11

 

TOD 10, 9.8's- 24

 

Marvel Spotlight 5, 9.8's - 2

 

 

Star Wars 1, 9.8's- 346

 

In many cases the tremendous amounts of SW 1, 9.8's exceed those keys books' numbers in 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, etc. combined.

 

-J.

 

 

That's a good chart but the implicit logical flaw is discounting that every other book on that list was published in 1975 or before, at the very infancy of the direct market.

 

You can't really compare high-grade populations of 1970-1975 books to 1976-1980 books any more than you can compare the vastly lower quantities of 1960-1964 books relative to their 1965-1970 counterparts.

 

Yes -- there are _huge_ numbers of Star Wars # 1 out there. But there are also huge numbers of its peers -- Peter Parker # 1 (347 9.8s), Nova # 1 (134 9.8s) and She Hulk # 1 (755 9.8s).

 

Likewise, it's specious to claim that these latter books weren't "slab worthy...since the advent of CGC" because these 1976-1980 books have only become truly valuable within the last 15 years.

 

A 1977 book was 23 years old at the advent of CGC; vs. 38 years old today.

 

The "reasons" why there are extreme amounts of SW 1 in a 9.8 out there (compared to actual BA keys) was irrelevant to my analysis.

 

That there are that many (and counting) was the beginning and end of my point. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Much broader market than any of those other books though, so I think the # of copies can be absorbed.

 

I ninja edited my post on you.

 

-J.

[joe_collector]

yes, because it was $20-$25 and X-Men 94 and GS 1 were $75-$100 or more, but $20-$25 was a lot relatively speaking 30+ years ago and certainly among the highs among 1970s first appearances.

 

It was high for any mid-60's-on first appearance outside of a major SA key, such as FF 48 or ASM 50, neither of which were very expensive in the early to mid 80's. GS X-Men 1 and X-Men 94 were *not* hot due to first appearances, but because the New X-Men were red-hot and highly collectible, and those were the earliest issues. And the fact that it was Giant-Size X-Men NUMBER ONE definitely helped, no doubt about it.

 

First appearances in mid-run books just weren't a big deal back then, and at any show from 1981-87, you would get more requests for New X-Men (especially Byrne), Miller Daredevil, Simonson Thor, and a variety of #1 issues of the era than anything like Hulk 181, ASM 50 or FF 48.

[comix4fun]

I noticed a couple dozen pages back there was some talk about how "Manipulated" the market was on this book, especially in 9.8.

 

I was too lazy to look until today, but GPA bears this out. Holy cow. Someone's playing games with sales. The same books are changing hands at bloated prices repeatedly.

 

Without GPA there would be almost no way to ever know.

[jsilverjanet]

my sale last month of a 9.8 white was legit ($1892)

[comix4fun]

my sale last month of a 9.8 white was legit ($1892)

 

 

That one makes sense....the two $2500 sales with the same serial number sold a month apart don't.

 

A side effect of weird high sales, repeating over and over is helping legit sellers get a nice price from anyone who doesn't look too closely at the sales data.

 

$1892 is probably right, but it looks like a steal.

[Jaydogrules]

my sale last month of a 9.8 white was legit ($1892)

 

It might have been. But the value has been artificially inflated by those bogus ebay sales that are tainting not only GPA but the market perception of the book's "FMV" as well. 

 

Unfortunately, this is nothing new, particularly with common BA/CA/MA books.  But the relentless shilling that's going on with SW 1 is truly legendary.

 

-J.

[the blob]

yes, because it was $20-$25 and X-Men 94 and GS 1 were $75-$100 or more, but $20-$25 was a lot relatively speaking 30+ years ago and certainly among the highs among 1970s first appearances.

 

It was high for any mid-60's-on first appearance outside of a major SA key, such as FF 48 or ASM 50, neither of which were very expensive in the early to mid 80's. GS X-Men 1 and X-Men 94 were *not* hot due to first appearances, but because the New X-Men were red-hot and highly collectible, and those were the earliest issues. And the fact that it was Giant-Size X-Men NUMBER ONE definitely helped, no doubt about it.

 

First appearances in mid-run books just weren't a big deal back then, and at any show from 1981-87, you would get more requests for New X-Men (especially Byrne), Miller Daredevil, Simonson Thor, and a variety of #1 issues of the era than anything like Hulk 181, ASM 50 or FF 48.

 

Hulk 181 and FF 48 were bumped out price-wise in any of those mail order lists you would see in comics in 1981, 1982, etc. I have no idea what guide was, but I remember seeing an FF 48 up on the wall of my local LCS for like $15 circa 1978-9 or so and that seemed like a huge amount of money back then. The Amazing Fantasy 15 was $100. Of course, I have no idea what the condition of either was as they were not going to had them over to a 7 year old to examine.

 

But yes, Daredevil 158 was bumped out just as much if not a bunch more, as artists were king back then.

 

As for GS X-Men 1, we can argue about whether they were hot due to being the firsts apps or because they were the "earliest" available of the new time (the difference, if any, is very subtle), but at 8 I was highly cognizant of GS 1 being the first appearance of the new team and 94 being the first time it appeared in the title and that being why they were worth so much and this was in 1980 or 1981 or whenever they height of the byrne x-men madness was (and so were my 8 year old counterparts in dorkiness). of course, i had an older brother telling me these "important" facts of the comicworld, I didn't get there on my own (and, interestingly, all my little buddies who were into comics also had like minded older brothers, go figure)

[the blob]

Were SW 1 and PPSM 1 a bit different in that these were some of the earlier examples of shops buying in bulk for speculation later? Guys like Koch and Dolgoff were buying thousands of extra copies and my understanding is that around then baby Carbonaro was buying 500 copies of many marvels for show inventory.

[thunsicker]

I haven't looked at the eBay sales closely, but I would assume serial numbers that sell close together happen in three possible scenarios.

 

1) Shilled sale.

2) Non-Paying bidder and relist.

3) Speculators.

 

Are you sure those are shilled auctions? And, yes, I agree that $2500 is ridiculous for a Star Wars #1 unless it's the 35 cent variant.