Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[prez]

 

This will go down as the movie that started the beginning of the superhero hype movie bubble to be popped.

Mainstream will not take superhero movies seriously again for a long time.

This FF movie has opened the door.

 

AoU did that already.

 

Stop your non-sense.

 

Nothing to see here folks! Everything is fine and dandy... ALL Marvel movies are top notch and great!! Now, buy these hot movie comics I have for sale....

[NewWorldOrder]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

Plus I will admit to being one that has never read any of the original FF Marvels. Rehashing the FF origins stroy line is a surefire flop and Fox should have known it would not make money.

 

At least this may keep FF books affordable for collectors.

 

Let me get this straight you never read any of the original FF storylines but yet they will fail in main stream movie media?

 

huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

So seeing a true Galactus/Silver Surfer story arc done correctly would be a flop?

 

I see millions of profit actually.

[Bosco685]

14 Bad Movies Based On Comics

 

I can't help but think the only reason this list exists is too mention fantastic 4 has been screwed up 3 times in a row!

 

http://screenrant.com/bad-superhero-movies-based-on-comics/?utm_source=SR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=SR-FB-P

 

BTW I think the Phantom is unfairly listed here.

 

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and The Phantom were not bad movies. Kind of like that site you posted that stated fans voted Hellboy a B- movie. That was far from a B- production.

[NewWorldOrder]

 

This will go down as the movie that started the beginning of the superhero hype movie bubble to be popped.

Mainstream will not take superhero movies seriously again for a long time.

This FF movie has opened the door.

 

AoU did that already.

 

Stop your non-sense.

 

Nothing to see here folks! Everything is fine and dandy... ALL Marvel movies are top notch and great!! Now, buy these hot movie comics I have for sale....

 

Most comics that are published are not top notch, so what is your point?

 

Expectations were meant with AoU, not sure what you expected.

[fantastic_four]

the way i see it now is if Fox doesn't move forward with no other plans for Fantastic Four and lets the rights go back to marvel. we could most likely see a fantastic four until 2020 or even closer to 2030.

 

Unless they sell them, the rights wouldn't revert until 2025 at minimum. If they cross them over into an X-Men film as they've stated they might, that could extend them even further. Marvel nor Fox have released enough about the specifics of their contract to know whether or not a crossover film would extend the rights.

 

I don't expect Fox to sell the rights back. Since they just bought themselves another decade with this bomb, the money men at Fox will likely just sit on the title for many years instead of risking their skins again.

 

Isn't it is 4 years?

 

If it were, the rights would have gone back to Marvel in 2011 since the last film came out in 2007. Daredevil went back to Marvel exactly a decade after the 2003 film was released, so it's a safe guess that they have the same decade time frame for Fantastic Four.

 

Neither company has released the details, so fans like us are left having to reverse-engineer them.

[Mr 9.8]

HOLY DROKK! The B.O. numbers are in and it didn't even meet the 27 million outlook!

I think this is officially a bomb of biblical proportions.

The Numbers Are In, and Fantastic Four Bombed at the U.S. Box Office!

 

http://comicbook.com/2015/08/09/the-numbers-are-in-and-fantastic-four-bombed-at-the-u-s-box-offi/

[NewWorldOrder]

HOLY DROKK! The B.O. numbers are in and it didn't even meet the 27 million outlook!

I think this is officially a bomb of biblical proportions.

The Numbers Are In, and Fantastic Four Bombed at the U.S. Box Office!

 

http://comicbook.com/2015/08/09/the-numbers-are-in-and-fantastic-four-bombed-at-the-u-s-box-offi/

 

 

[fantastic_four]

I still think the worse this thing bombs, the more Fox execs will pin the blame mostly on Trank. And the more they do that, the more incentive they have to try again with another director. A far better scenario for fans would have been for the film to lose a little money as opposed to a lot. At least that way they might blame it on the Fantastic Four concept itself losing steam after half a century, but as things lie, they'll end up blaming this on the production process, which leaves them more likely to try again if the execs are able to land a legit director.

 

But then again if they couldn't come up within anything better after seven years, maybe they'll go a whole decade again with the same dilemma. God I hope they just give up and sell the rights back.

[NewWorldOrder]

I still think the worse this thing bombs, the more Fox execs will pin the blame mostly on Trank. And the more they do that, the more incentive they have to try again with another director. A far better scenario for fans would have been for the film to lose a little money as opposed to a lot. At least that way they might blame it on the Fantastic Four concept itself losing steam after half a century, but as things lie, they'll end up blaming this on the production process, which leaves them more likely to try again if the execs are able to land a legit director.

 

But then again if they couldn't come up within anything better after seven years, maybe they'll go a whole decade again with the same dilemma. God I hope they just give up and sell the rights back.

 

I am fairly certain the next FF film that will be made will be somewhere in the 2220's however it wont be by Fox Studios.

[Mr 9.8]

I still think the worse this thing bombs, the more Fox execs will pin the blame mostly on Trank. And the more they do that, the more incentive they have to try again with another director. A far better scenario for fans would have been for the film to lose a little money as opposed to a lot. At least that way they might blame it on the Fantastic Four concept itself losing steam after half a century, but as things lie, they'll end up blaming this on the production process, which leaves them more likely to try again if the execs are able to land a legit director.

 

But then again if they couldn't come up within anything better after seven years, maybe they'll go a whole decade again with the same dilemma. God I hope they just give up and sell the rights back.

 

I am fairly certain the next FF film that will be made will be somewhere in the 2220's however it wont be by Fox Studios.

I wish I had your optimism.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

Plus I will admit to being one that has never read any of the original FF Marvels. Rehashing the FF origins stroy line is a surefire flop and Fox should have known it would not make money.

 

At least this may keep FF books affordable for collectors.

 

Let me get this straight you never read any of the original FF storylines but yet they will fail in main stream movie media?

 

huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

So seeing a true Galactus/Silver Surfer story arc done correctly would be a flop?

 

I see millions of profit actually.

 

No Sir what I am saying I have never read the original comic books. It is not that I have not read FF retrospectively although it was not a series I followed regularly. Only something I read to better understand story arcs through other Marvels titles. Everybody and their grandmother knows who Ben Grimm, Reed Richards& Johnny Flame were. What I mean by them failing in mainstream media is that there was no way Fox should have expected to make money off of another retelling of their origins. It has been done 3 times now.

 

In line with what you say, moving further into a Galactus/Silver Surfer story line would be a perfect direction for Hollywood to take it if they were trying to turn a dollar.

 

27 million??? Millions of profit??? That is not exactly a blockbuster smash in todays theatres when A2:Ultron made $100 million it in its first 24 hours.

 

What I am saying is: Hollywood Stopmaking fun of the nerds and do it right. We will all be happier.

[koollectablz]

Like I said on the other thread.

 

I quite liked it.

 

But yeah, it's not THE Fantastic Four.

 

And no way is it worse than Jonah Hex or even IM2 or 3. It's just not a MCU superhero film in any way.

 

Pretty much no one I know knows the FF, and if they do it's from the first two movies, so I think the biggest problem with the movie is that there was no real point to making it. You can't tie it into the MCU to try and make it relevant in that way or have it work as a standalone superhero flick. People just don't care about the FF in the way that Spiderman or X-Men have Joe Public awareness.

 

As to killing off superhero movies. No chance, one movie won't do that... The thing that will is the amount of them. I loved Ironman but did we need another two? No way. The bigger problem as I see it is that Marvel seem to think the way way to progress it's films is by having this whole planned put roadmap of films. That's already boring.

 

Spend less money, make smaller films, make up some new characters and tell decent entertaining stories. You know, like like comics did in the first place.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

The most major thematic deviation was the destruction of the counterpoint between Boromir and Faramir, a point so important, Tolkien repeatedly emphasized it throughout all three novels, weaving it into the larger elements of that theme.

 

Tolkien was making a statement that appearances aren't everything, that what appears to be strong, vital, courageous, steadfast may just be an appearance, and what appears weak, powerless, and underwhelming may have hidden, inner strength and power that far, far exceeds the outer appearance.

 

Boromir was the favored son of Denethor, the heir to the Stewardship, the pride of his father. Faramir was the "weak", despised younger son who always gave way to his father, and didn't make waves.

 

But, when the greatest challenge of both their lives faced them...the temptation to sieze the One Ring, and "defeat" Sauron (if such a thing were possible by the mortal men of Gondor), Boromir...Boromir the strong, Boromir the brave, Boromir the favored...was the one who, when tempted, fell.

 

But Faramir, faced with the same temptation, Faramir the weak, Faramir the disdained and scorned, is the one who resisted. Faramir had strength of will and character that, when tested, far, FAR outshone that of his older brother, and proved to be, in the end, the real hero of the family. Boromir nearly caused the destruction and devastation of all Middle Earth. Faramir helped save it.

 

Tolkien's point: that it is not by outward appearance that we should judge.

 

Obviously...OBVIOUSLY...this was a major, if not THE major, theme throughout the entire story, as it was the "halflings", those ignored by Elf and Men, who managed to do what they could not. By appearance, the hobbits were weak, soft, small, frail, easily pushed around, and easily ignored. Surely, thought they, surely these people, and this person Frodo in particular, didn't have the strength to do what needed to be done, and it was only the proud, the willful, the strong who could withstand Sauron and defeat him.

 

You can see it in Frodo and Sam, you can see it in Eowyn, and you can see it in Faramir, all major thematic developments that Tolkien spent a tremendous amount of time and talent constructing.

 

In making Faramir fall victim to temptation, a major sub-plot and development of that theme was completely wiped away. He merely became "Boromir lite" a large chunk of the point was completely lost, and Faramir became pointless as a unique character. He didn't even need to show up in the films.

 

The director, producer, and the actor who played him "defended" the change thusly:

 

"Jackson's explanation is that he needed another adventure to delay Frodo and Sam, because the episode at Cirith Ungol was moved to the third movie, and so a new climax was needed. In fact, according to the timeline given by Tolkien, Frodo and Sam had only reached the Black Gate at the time of the fall of Isengard. Jackson also argues that it was necessary for Faramir to be tempted by the Ring because in his films everyone else was tempted, and letting Faramir be immune would be inconsistent in the eyes of a film audience. Co-screenwriter Philippa Boyens and actor David Wenham defended the changes to Faramir's character in order to increase dramatic tension: Faramir's "sea-green incorruptible" nature in the book would not have "[translated] well filmically". Wenham (who had not read the book until after filming had commenced) also found Tolkien's original "dramatically dead"."

 

What a bunch of arrogant, egotistical rubbish. Idjits who failed to understand the significance of the theme Tolkien developed, and so dispensed with it because they thought they knew better. They could have had the battle at Osgiliath....which IS mentioned in the books...WITHOUT Faramir carting Frodo off to Minas Tirith. These fools completely missed the entire reason for Faramir's existence!

 

My contempt for them on this issue is immense. Who does this "Wenham" maroon think he is? TOLKIEN, he is not.

 

"Oh no" says an actor "if there's no action, whatever shall my character DO?"

 

 

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Like I said on the other thread.

 

I quite liked it.

 

But yeah, it's not THE Fantastic Four.

 

And no way is it worse than Jonah Hex or even IM2 or 3. It's just not a MCU superhero film in any way.

 

Pretty much no one I know knows the FF, and if they do it's from the first two movies, so I think the biggest problem with the movie is that there was no real point to making it. You can't tie it into the MCU to try and make it relevant in that way or have it work as a standalone superhero flick. People just don't care about the FF in the way that Spiderman or X-Men have Joe Public awareness.

 

As to killing off superhero movies. No chance, one movie won't do that... The thing that will is the amount of them. I loved Ironman but did we need another two? No way. The bigger problem as I see it is that Marvel seem to think the way way to progress it's films is by having this whole planned put roadmap of films. That's already boring.

 

Spend less money, make smaller films, make up some new characters and tell decent entertaining stories. You know, like like comics did in the first place.

 

Can I get a H E L L YEAH!!!

[koollectablz]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

Plus I will admit to being one that has never read any of the original FF Marvels. Rehashing the FF origins stroy line is a surefire flop and Fox should have known it would not make money.

 

At least this may keep FF books affordable for collectors.

 

Let me get this straight you never read any of the original FF storylines but yet they will fail in main stream movie media?

 

huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

So seeing a true Galactus/Silver Surfer story arc done correctly would be a flop?

 

I see millions of profit actually.

 

No Sir what I am saying I have never read the original comic books. It is not that I have not read FF retrospectively although it was not a series I followed regularly. Only something I read to better understand story arcs through other Marvels titles. Everybody and their grandmother knows who Ben Grimm, Reed Richards& Johnny Flame were. What I mean by them failing in mainstream media is that there was no way Fox should have expected to make money off of another retelling of their origins. It has been done 3 times now.

 

In line with what you say, moving further into a Galactus/Silver Surfer story line would be a perfect direction for Hollywood to take it if they were trying to turn a dollar.

 

27 million??? Millions of profit??? That is not exactly a blockbuster smash in todays theatres when A2:Ultron made $100 million it in its first 24 hours.

 

What I am saying is: Hollywood Stopmaking fun of the nerds and do it right. We will all be happier.

 

I'd disagree with that. They just don't have the brand recognition with non comic people.

 

No one cares about the FF. Even their powers are kinda confusing if you didn't already know what they were supposed to be.

[Mr Sneeze]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

The most major thematic deviation was the destruction of the counterpoint between Boromir and Faramir, a point so important, Tolkien repeatedly emphasized it throughout all three novels, weaving it into the larger elements of that theme.

 

Tolkien was making a statement that appearances aren't everything, that what appears to be strong, vital, courageous, steadfast may just be an appearance, and what appears weak, powerless, and underwhelming may have hidden, inner strength and power that far, far exceeds the outer appearance.

 

Boromir was the favored son of Denethor, the heir to the Stewardship, the pride of his father. Faramir was the "weak", despised younger son who always gave way to his father, and didn't make waves.

 

But, when the greatest challenge of both their lives faced them...the temptation to sieze the One Ring, and "defeat" Sauron (if such a thing were possible by the mortal men of Gondor), Boromir...Boromir the strong, Boromir the brave, Boromir the favored was the one who, when tempted, fell.

 

But Faramir, faced with the same temptation, Faramir the weak, Faramir the disdained and scorned, is the one who resisted. Faramir had strength of will and character that, when tested, far, FAR outshone that of his older brother, and proved to be, in the end, the real hero of the family. Boromir nearly caused the destruction and devastation of all Middle Earth. Faramir helped save it.

 

Tolkien's point: that it is not by outward appearance that we should judge.

 

Obviously...OBVIOUSLY...this was a major, if not THE major, theme throughout the entire story, as it was the "halflings", those ignored by Elf and Men, who managed to do what they could not. By appearance, the hobbits were weak, soft, small, frail, easily pushed around, and easily ignored. Surely, thought they, surely these people, and this person Frodo in particular, didn't have the strength to do what needed to be done, and it was only the proud, the willful, the strong who could withstand Sauron and defeat him.

 

You can see it in Frodo and Sam, you can see it in Eowyn, and you can see it in Faramir, all major thematic developments that Tolkien spent a tremendous amount of time and talent constructing.

 

In making Faramir fall victim to temptation, a major sub-plot and development of that theme was completely wiped away. He merely became "Boromir lite" a large chunk of the point was completely lost, and Faramir became pointless as a unique character. He didn't even need to show up in the films.

 

The director, producer, and the actor who played him "defended" the change thusly:

 

"Jackson's explanation is that he needed another adventure to delay Frodo and Sam, because the episode at Cirith Ungol was moved to the third movie, and so a new climax was needed. In fact, according to the timeline given by Tolkien, Frodo and Sam had only reached the Black Gate at the time of the fall of Isengard. Jackson also argues that it was necessary for Faramir to be tempted by the Ring because in his films everyone else was tempted, and letting Faramir be immune would be inconsistent in the eyes of a film audience. Co-screenwriter Philippa Boyens and actor David Wenham defended the changes to Faramir's character in order to increase dramatic tension: Faramir's "sea-green incorruptible" nature in the book would not have "[translated] well filmically". Wenham (who had not read the book until after filming had commenced) also found Tolkien's original "dramatically dead"."

 

What a bunch of arrogant, egotistical rubbish. Idjits who failed to understand the significance of the theme Tolkien developed, and so dispensed with it because they thought they knew better. They could have had the battle at Osgiliath....which IS mentioned in the books...WITHOUT Faramir carting Frodo off to Minas Tirith. These fools completely missed the entire reason for Faramir's existence!

 

My contempt for them on this issue is immense. Who does this "Wenham" maroon think he is? TOLKIEN, he is not.

 

"Oh no" says an actor "if there's no action, whatever shall my character DO?"

 

 

 

I am guessing that a majority of people never read LOTR so they would have little idea of what Peter Jackson did. Personally, I wouldn't let Peter Jackson direct traffic after what he did to the LOTR.

 

 

[Davenport]

I'd disagree with that. They just don't have the brand recognition with non comic people.

 

No one cares about the FF. Even their powers are kinda confusing if you didn't already know what they were supposed to be.

 

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

The most major thematic deviation was the destruction of the counterpoint between Boromir and Faramir, a point so important, Tolkien repeatedly emphasized it throughout all three novels, weaving it into the larger elements of that theme.

 

Tolkien was making a statement that appearances aren't everything, that what appears to be strong, vital, courageous, steadfast may just be an appearance, and what appears weak, powerless, and underwhelming may have hidden, inner strength and power that far, far exceeds the outer appearance.

 

Boromir was the favored son of Denethor, the heir to the Stewardship, the pride of his father. Faramir was the "weak", despised younger son who always gave way to his father, and didn't make waves.

 

But, when the greatest challenge of both their lives faced them...the temptation to sieze the One Ring, and "defeat" Sauron (if such a thing were possible by the mortal men of Gondor), Boromir...Boromir the strong, Boromir the brave, Boromir the favored...was the one who, when tempted, fell.

 

But Faramir, faced with the same temptation, Faramir the weak, Faramir the disdained and scorned, is the one who resisted. Faramir had strength of will and character that, when tested, far, FAR outshone that of his older brother, and proved to be, in the end, the real hero of the family. Boromir nearly caused the destruction and devastation of all Middle Earth. Faramir helped save it.

 

Tolkien's point: that it is not by outward appearance that we should judge.

 

Obviously...OBVIOUSLY...this was a major, if not THE major, theme throughout the entire story, as it was the "halflings", those ignored by Elf and Men, who managed to do what they could not. By appearance, the hobbits were weak, soft, small, frail, easily pushed around, and easily ignored. Surely, thought they, surely these people, and this person Frodo in particular, didn't have the strength to do what needed to be done, and it was only the proud, the willful, the strong who could withstand Sauron and defeat him.

 

You can see it in Frodo and Sam, you can see it in Eowyn, and you can see it in Faramir, all major thematic developments that Tolkien spent a tremendous amount of time and talent constructing.

 

In making Faramir fall victim to temptation, a major sub-plot and development of that theme was completely wiped away. He merely became "Boromir lite" a large chunk of the point was completely lost, and Faramir became pointless as a unique character. He didn't even need to show up in the films.

 

The director, producer, and the actor who played him "defended" the change thusly:

 

"Jackson's explanation is that he needed another adventure to delay Frodo and Sam, because the episode at Cirith Ungol was moved to the third movie, and so a new climax was needed. In fact, according to the timeline given by Tolkien, Frodo and Sam had only reached the Black Gate at the time of the fall of Isengard. Jackson also argues that it was necessary for Faramir to be tempted by the Ring because in his films everyone else was tempted, and letting Faramir be immune would be inconsistent in the eyes of a film audience. Co-screenwriter Philippa Boyens and actor David Wenham defended the changes to Faramir's character in order to increase dramatic tension: Faramir's "sea-green incorruptible" nature in the book would not have "[translated] well filmically". Wenham (who had not read the book until after filming had commenced) also found Tolkien's original "dramatically dead"."

 

What a bunch of arrogant, egotistical rubbish. Idjits who failed to understand the significance of the theme Tolkien developed, and so dispensed with it because they thought they knew better. They could have had the battle at Osgiliath....which IS mentioned in the books...WITHOUT Faramir carting Frodo off to Minas Tirith. These fools completely missed the entire reason for Faramir's existence!

 

My contempt for them on this issue is immense. Who does this "Wenham" maroon think he is? TOLKIEN, he is not.

 

"Oh no" says an actor "if there's no action, whatever shall my character DO?"

 

 

 

Interesting. I missed that.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

Understand that Hollywood is a business, and the people who make these decisions have never...ever...had any respect for the source material, with the exception, perhaps, of Kevin Smith, who doesn't make these movies.

 

If Peter Jackson can muck up major themes in LOTR, changing major, major Tolkien thematic elements for nothing other than his own whim, changes that didn't even NEED to be made, then nothing is safe. So long as it's eye candy, pretty scenery, and lots of satisfying battle scenes, HUZZAH!

 

The unfortunate part is that they have been rewarded by the public for these efforts, because the public doesn't care. The public is stupid, and so long as they are entertained, deviation from the source material...which only 1 in 100,000 viewers have even seen...means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

Does anyone reading this care that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR...? Does anyone reading this even KNOW that Jackson demolished major themes in LOTR, themes that Tolkien spent years developing, and which he thought were so important, he wove them throughout all three novels...?

 

Probably not.

 

Hell, George Lucas did it to his own movie franchise, and he was rewarded with $2.5 BILLION. Phantom Menace was a farce, a travesty, a complete betrayal of the spirit of the original films and Lucas' own stated vision...and the movie made a BILLION DOLLARS worldwide, based on nostalgia.

 

So Attack of the Clones "only" made $649 Million. Oh, no, what shall we do?

 

As long as the stupid moviegoing public supports this nonsense, this will continue to happen.

 

Maybe...just maybe....Fox losing a boatload of cash on this particular travesty may turn things around...but it's not likely.

 

Movie makers in Hollywood have little but contempt for the public, and maybe rightfully so, but they only care about one thing: your money.

 

Artistic integrity in the movie industry doesn't exist and, outside of a few rebels, never has. You want to see artistic integrity, you'll have to watch independent films, which cannot afford to make these types of movies.

 

I read the LOTR books before and after seeing the movies. I am willing to admit I am dense but I failed to see any extreme deviation from the novels. Those films did make alot of money if I recall correctly.

 

Plus I will admit to being one that has never read any of the original FF Marvels. Rehashing the FF origins stroy line is a surefire flop and Fox should have known it would not make money.

 

At least this may keep FF books affordable for collectors.

 

Let me get this straight you never read any of the original FF storylines but yet they will fail in main stream movie media?

 

huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

So seeing a true Galactus/Silver Surfer story arc done correctly would be a flop?

 

I see millions of profit actually.

 

No Sir what I am saying I have never read the original comic books. It is not that I have not read FF retrospectively although it was not a series I followed regularly. Only something I read to better understand story arcs through other Marvels titles. Everybody and their grandmother knows who Ben Grimm, Reed Richards& Johnny Flame were. What I mean by them failing in mainstream media is that there was no way Fox should have expected to make money off of another retelling of their origins. It has been done 3 times now.

 

In line with what you say, moving further into a Galactus/Silver Surfer story line would be a perfect direction for Hollywood to take it if they were trying to turn a dollar.

 

27 million??? Millions of profit??? That is not exactly a blockbuster smash in todays theatres when A2:Ultron made $100 million it in its first 24 hours.

 

What I am saying is: Hollywood Stopmaking fun of the nerds and do it right. We will all be happier.

 

I'd disagree with that. They just don't have the brand recognition with non comic people.

 

No one cares about the FF. Even their powers are kinda confusing if you didn't already know what they were supposed to be.

 

[fantastic_four]

They just don't have the brand recognition with non comic people.

 

No one cares about the FF.

 

I don't disagree. The last time they had much popularity was in the 80s with the Byrne run. The Waid/Wieringo run from the 2000s was absolutely scintillating, yet even that never translated into significant commercial success. There isn't any FF comic in the top-selling list by marvel since 2000 other than the first issue of Ultimate Fantastic Four (link to that list is below), and even that is pretty far down their list. It is difficult to see modern fans liking them much.

 

http://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/topcomics2000s.html

 

Having said that, the components are all there for likability. It certainly has more potential than Ant-Man, and Marvel just proved they can do tremendous justice to even the most minor of their characters, so it's easy to believe this title can be done right.