Are signature series worth getting and should artists charge more for CGC book?

[revat]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

Your favorite creator has judged you to be someone they think is taking money out of their wallet, and treated you differently (worse) based on that assumption, just because you prefer your signed comic to be in a slab, graded, and verified. They automatically presume you're less of a fan. You're ok with them thinking that? I would want them to enjoy interacting with me as much as I enjoy interacting with them, to the extent that its possible.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[revat]

 

I think that's a forgotten point too. While there certainly are some people who profit significantly from selling CGC SS books, by and large that's simply not the case. The average person sells a few to pay for a few. To do so as a significant source of income, you would need so much capital and or inventory , as well as fronting all the time and money for all the fees, then risking the grade, risking the shipping, marketing the book, selling the book, packaging the book, shipping the book, dealing with CGC and the customers. And this is without talking about extra fees, issues, and time related to facilitators.

 

There is a tremendous, TREMENDOUS amount of risk, time, and effort in doing all of this, that, again, isn't explained to creators. Sig series isn't a money printing machine.

 

Despite what Schmidt said earlier, the reality is that the vast, vast majority of people SELLING SS books ARE losing a tremendous amount of money...not dollars, per se, but time, effort, risk, and energy.

 

They do it because they love it, and are happy to do it. Very few people are getting rich doing sig series. Very few, if any. A lot of us, if we're making any money at all, are working for $5, $7, $10/hour, if that.

 

And creators don't know any of that, because no one's taking the time to explain it to them.

 

They see that "I sold this for a quarter in 1971, and this guy will sell it for $3,000" eBay listing, and don't know what happened in between. Envy kicks in, and "it's not FAIR!" and we have the situation we have now.

 

 

agree, there's enough 'sense of entitlement' on all sides to go around.

 

I won't get started on huge minimum wage hikes. Paychecks aren't based on how much you need the money, its not college financial aid.

[N/A]

 

I think that's a forgotten point too. While there certainly are some people who profit significantly from selling CGC SS books, by and large that's simply not the case. The average person sells a few to pay for a few. To do so as a significant source of income, you would need so much capital and or inventory , as well as fronting all the time and money for all the fees, then risking the grade, risking the shipping, marketing the book, selling the book, packaging the book, shipping the book, dealing with CGC and the customers. And this is without talking about extra fees, issues, and time related to facilitators.

 

There is a tremendous, TREMENDOUS amount of risk, time, and effort in doing all of this, that, again, isn't explained to creators. Sig series isn't a money printing machine.

 

Despite what Schmidt said earlier, the reality is that the vast, vast majority of people SELLING SS books ARE losing a tremendous amount of money...not dollars, per se, but time, effort, risk, and energy.

 

They do it because they love it, and are happy to do it. Very few people are getting rich doing sig series. Very few, if any. A lot of us, if we're making any money at all, are working for $5, $7, $10/hour, if that.

 

And creators don't know any of that, because no one's taking the time to explain it to them.

 

They see that "I sold this for a quarter in 1971, and this guy will sell it for $3,000" eBay listing, and don't know what happened in between. Envy kicks in, and "it's not FAIR!" and we have the situation we have now.

 

 

Anyone who doubts this does not sell SS in volume. (thumbs u

[wombat]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Yes. I think maximizing your revenue where possible makes sense.

[N/A]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I like everything about Rob's pricing. I wish more creators did the same.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

 

Is that not a badass book? Man, Perez did an amazing job.

 

DIck and Wally, their old costumes tossed about, their backs to the reader, walking away, leaving behind their adolescent personas...

 

....and beside them, sketches of who they would become, in the big white spaces...?

 

Man, what a badass book. I had that book for 22 YEARS before finally getting this done, purposely set aside for just this opportunity.

 

If anyone sees me selling this, you know it's because I've completely given up comics.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Yes. I think maximizing your revenue where possible makes sense.

 

Then why doesn't he charge $10 million per signature?

 

That would certainly maximize his revenue, wouldn't it...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I like everything about Rob's pricing. I wish more creators did the same.

 

That's because you want less competition.

 

[N/A]

 

 

 

Is that not a badass book? Man, Perez did an amazing job.

 

DIck and Wally, their old costumes tossed about, their backs to the reader, walking away, leaving behind their adolescent personas...

 

....and beside them, sketches of who they would become, in the big white spaces...?

 

Man, what a badass book. I had that book for 22 YEARS before finally getting this done, purposely set aside for just this opportunity.

 

If anyone sees me selling this, you know it's because I've completely given up comics.

 

 

I remember the look in your eyes when you got it done.

Kid in a candy shop.

[wombat]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Yes. I think maximizing your revenue where possible makes sense.

 

Then why doesn't he charge $10 million per signature?

 

That would certainly maximize his revenue, wouldn't it...?

 

So charging an amount that no one would pay would maximize his revenue?

[N/A]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I like everything about Rob's pricing. I wish more creators did the same.

 

That's because you want less competition.

 

My SS volume is less than 10% of last year. I don't see the money in it. I like how straight forward Rob is and how he tries to cut people some slack. Bring him an UXM 245 and see how much he asks you for.

 

I also liked Neal Adams price structure before he gave up. I can respect and like to support any creator that takes the time to try and make room for the fans while accommodating the flippers.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

 

Is that not a badass book? Man, Perez did an amazing job.

 

DIck and Wally, their old costumes tossed about, their backs to the reader, walking away, leaving behind their adolescent personas...

 

....and beside them, sketches of who they would become, in the big white spaces...?

 

Man, what a badass book. I had that book for 22 YEARS before finally getting this done, purposely set aside for just this opportunity.

 

If anyone sees me selling this, you know it's because I've completely given up comics.

 

 

I remember the look in your eyes when you got it done.

Kid in a candy shop.

 

That's right, you were there!

 

Did I start to tear up a little...?

 

I don't remember, but I wouldn't be surprised if I did.

 

[revat]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Yes. I think maximizing your revenue where possible makes sense.

 

yes, if your motives are purely for revenue maximization. But as previously stated, a lot of people believe that many of these creators are operating out of a sense of "I don't want to get screwed out of cash this bum is making off of me", rather than "I wanna make it rain at the club tonight." Whether that's true or just an excuse is really up to the individual.

 

No one is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to maximize their profits, or that they don't have the right to choose. Just that they've chosen based on bad info, and there is a cost, whether its alienating certain real fans, whether its less money, whether its being perceived as ignorant or unfair by more informed people. And for many people, they think the 'extra' money is worth it, which is fine. But I think more of these creators would rather be thought of as intelligent and fair, rather than people seeking to maximize profit off of their fans. But of course, that's just speculation too.

[HighRadArt]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I like everything about Rob's pricing. I wish more creators did the same.

 

That's because you want less competition.

 

My SS volume is less than 10% of last year. I don't see the money in it. I like how straight forward Rob is and how he tries to cut people some slack. Bring him an UXM 245 and see how much he asks you for.

 

I also liked Neal Adams price structure before he gave up. I can respect and like to support any creator that takes the time to try and make room for the fans while accommodating the flippers.

 

He gave up (Neal Adams)?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I like everything about Rob's pricing. I wish more creators did the same.

 

That's because you want less competition.

 

My SS volume is less than 10% of last year. I don't see the money in it. I like how straight forward Rob is and how he tries to cut people some slack. Bring him an UXM 245 and see how much he asks you for.

 

I also liked Neal Adams price structure before he gave up. I can respect and like to support any creator that takes the time to try and make room for the fans while accommodating the flippers.

 

I'm a fan. Why am I charged the flipper price...?

 

[seanfingh]

The funniest thing about this whole thread is that we had the same conversation - many, many times - in the Sig Room going back to 2012. It built like a crescendo and there are a number of flashpoints that caused it to become more and more in the spotlight:

 

- Tony Moore charging $5 a book for WD

- Stan's "semi-exclusive" unavailability for several years

- Other Image creators getting in on the signing fee action

- The Plastino thing

- The Swamp Thing creators charging more for SS at CCE

- Liefeld's escalating fee structure for NM 87 and 98

- Neal Adams' escalating fee schedule

- Guys like Len Wein and Wolfman charging for SS

- Whilce Portacio charging $20 for Star Wars variants

 

It happens all the time. The rules from CGC are pretty clear. If the talent is charging, pay the fee.

 

[1Cool]

I have a question, does the SS "process" take more of the creator's time than signing other books? Does a witness need to rush over there and fill out paperwork or is it usually a certified "witness" who brings a stack of a badjillion books?

 

By the way...good facilitators and witnesses can become so skilled at the process that it literally takes a fraction of the time for the creator.

 

I had 51 books signed by Liefeld at Comikaze last year. It took about 4 minutes.

 

Some people had 3 books to sign, but because they wanted to sit and chat with Rob (which is fine), it took 10 minutes.

 

But Rob only made $60 or so on those 3 books. He made $1000+ on the 51 I had.

 

...from a financial perspective, which would Rob rather be doing...?

 

 

Charging more for those 51 books that take less time. Seems like the obvious answer from a financial perspective.

 

Sure, if you want to alienate your fans. Don't you think it pisses people off to have to pay more for the exact same effort as someone else?

 

Then you don't get any books to sign, eventually.

 

So the "problem" will fix itself.

 

Personally it wouldn't/doesn't me off. I think it makes sense.

 

You think charging different prices for the same service, dependent upon external factors you have nothing to do with, "makes sense"...?

 

Ooook.

 

You are advocating cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Yes. I think maximizing your revenue where possible makes sense.

 

I think it makes sense for artists to start charging more to sign Golden-Age or Silver-Age books. These books are obviously more valuable since they are so old and the person must be getting ready to sell them for big bucks before they retire / die.

 

We call this reasoning crazy but the logic is very similar to what is being used right now.

[IntoAnother]

 

 

 

Is that not a badass book? Man, Perez did an amazing job.

 

DIck and Wally, their old costumes tossed about, their backs to the reader, walking away, leaving behind their adolescent personas...

 

....and beside them, sketches of who they would become, in the big white spaces...?

 

Man, what a badass book. I had that book for 22 YEARS before finally getting this done, purposely set aside for just this opportunity.

 

If anyone sees me selling this, you know it's because I've completely given up comics.

 

 

I remember the look in your eyes when you got it done.

Kid in a candy shop.

 

That's right, you were there!

 

Did I start to tear up a little...?

 

I don't remember, but I wouldn't be surprised if I did.

 

 

Love the passion!

[1Cool]

 

 

 

Is that not a badass book? Man, Perez did an amazing job.

 

DIck and Wally, their old costumes tossed about, their backs to the reader, walking away, leaving behind their adolescent personas...

 

....and beside them, sketches of who they would become, in the big white spaces...?

 

Man, what a badass book. I had that book for 22 YEARS before finally getting this done, purposely set aside for just this opportunity.

 

If anyone sees me selling this, you know it's because I've completely given up comics.

 

 

I remember the look in your eyes when you got it done.

Kid in a candy shop.

 

That reminds me of you running around Heroes getting a new artists to do cover sketches for you. I don't think I've ever seen anyone as happy at a Con before. Who was that artists you kept pesting? Any scans of the books?