Rankings for Dealers

[qualitycomix]

Dave I support 3 children and a wife.

 

 

I did not know that you had signed up for the whole package at your age.

 

Good luck.

 

although it can't be too financially straining if you can turn down a days work for a grand.

 

As we all know purchases AND sales make a show. A grand in sales should equal a grand in purchases for future sales. If you could do that every day it would be $730,000 in business a year. Never mind residual catalog and web-site sales.

I can see where you would be taking a pay cut.

 

plus I know that things have gotten a lot tougher for you now that you bring two wheelers of books to a show. Maybe you can get one of your dependents to help out at the Javits. You signed up so late that you should be about 6000 feet from the entrance. Maybe you can get a cab.

 

$1,000 in sales does not equal $1,000 in profit. It may be $300 in profit. After taking into account gas, time, setup and cost of the table, that's a net loss.

[Aman619]

I was writing the same response, but he qualified it as $1000 on sales plus $1000 in purchases for sale down the road, as another advantage of showing up at the (his) shows. But to me, it still sounds like too little to suit up. load up, drive up and set up when Id rather stay home with the family or add stuff to my website (If I were Bob) uhhhh, shudder....

[october]

Dave I support 3 children and a wife.

 

 

I did not know that you had signed up for the whole package at your age.

 

Good luck.

 

although it can't be too financially straining if you can turn down a days work for a grand.

 

As we all know purchases AND sales make a show. A grand in sales should equal a grand in purchases for future sales. If you could do that every day it would be $730,000 in business a year. Never mind residual catalog and web-site sales.

I can see where you would be taking a pay cut.

 

plus I know that things have gotten a lot tougher for you now that you bring two wheelers of books to a show. Maybe you can get one of your dependents to help out at the Javits. You signed up so late that you should be about 6000 feet from the entrance. Maybe you can get a cab.

 

$1,000 in sales does not equal $1,000 in profit. It may be $300 in profit. After taking into account gas, time, setup and cost of the table, that's a net loss.

 

Kind of weird that you would have to explain that to a show promoter.

[langur88]

 

I didn't really realize that anybody honestly believed we were in a "growth industry".

 

Don't the Overstreet prices on vintage comic books go up on average every year?

 

I was referring to the fact that there are dealers who believe that there is an infinite number of collectors to step forward when one leaves. If only the promoter would beat the bushes and flush them out.

 

I advertise where comic book readers and collectors go. I am not trying to convert the masses. When it comes to comic books, you either get it or you don't.

We all know this. The guy who is attending a show to see wrestlers, celebrities, boobies, gaming or to purchase bootleg videos is probably not going to buy comic books at any price.

The guy who spends mucho on comic art will probably turn his nose up at owning or reading a comic book too.

[SuperBird]

Langur- I don't even know what you are arguing any more.....

[langur88]

 

A grand in sales should equal a grand in purchases for future sales.

 

$1,000 in sales does not equal $1,000 in profit. It may be $300 in profit. After taking into account gas, time, setup and cost of the table, that's a net loss.

 

Kind of weird that you would have to explain that to a show promoter.

 

 

Kind of weird that you can not read.

 

It's a rule of thumb. That all.

 

If dealer A sold x amount of dollar value in books in an open market he should be able to replace the inventory at the same show before and during the shows official hours. I said a grand in business. Purchases and sales. A dealer doing a grand in sales should do $2000 of business at said show in a normal environment.

 

I have set-up and run over 300 shows. I know what expenses are. You don't know what blazings expenses are. or mine.

 

Some shows are better selling shows and some are better buying shows. But a good goal is to have an equilibrium of buying and selling. Everybody likes new stock.

[Foolkiller]

 

I didn't really realize that anybody honestly believed we were in a "growth industry".

 

Don't the Overstreet prices on vintage comic books go up on average every year?

 

I was referring to the fact that there are dealers who believe that there is an infinite number of collectors to step forward when one leaves. If only the promoter would beat the bushes and flush them out.

 

I advertise where comic book readers and collectors go. I am not trying to convert the masses. When it comes to comic books, you either get it or you don't.

We all know this. The guy who is attending a show to see wrestlers, celebrities, boobies, gaming or to purchase bootleg videos is probably not going to buy comic books at any price.

The guy who spends mucho on comic art will probably turn his nose up at owning or reading a comic book too.

 

I really don't know any dealers who believe there are infinite numbers of collectors to take the place of old ones. As I discuss this issue with dealers from time to time, from the most experienced dealers to the weekend warriors, all of them universally understand that there is a finite number of collectors.

 

Let me be clear up front Dave that I am suggesting any concrete ideas regarding promotion etc., just noting some of the issues that I think are being complained about in terms of promoters in general.

 

I really like Brian Schutzer and the people who put on the Big Apple -- but there have been many missteps in judgment there. However -- is it a promotional problem when the National cannot draw half the number that the Javitz show draws? Or even 25%? When you look at a particular market, why is it small shows rarely even draw 10% of an area's "major show"? In Philadelphia, the local show run by Derek Woywood is probably lucky to draw 200 people (and I mean VERY lucky). Yet there are over 15,000 who attend WW Philly -- why do collectors in the Philadelphia area skip the local show?

 

I ran into a very serious back issue collector in Fat Jack's here in Philly. He knew about the major shows, but was mostly an internet buyer. He had been collecting for probably 15 years or so. But... while he knew somewhat about the local philly show, the location is so difficult for him to get to (not in the city proper) that he was unable to ever go, and he just lost interest.

 

My point is that there are preexisting people, many who are long time collectors, who do not come out to the "smaller" shows like Big Apple etc. At a time when there is increasing competition for a shrinking dollar, dealers are likely upset that promoters are not inventing new ways to bring the customers that do exist to the show, and try to actively pursue not just the old dealers, but new ones like local shops in the area. Perhaps a free table for local stores who'd like to set up? I think what is frustrating is that I see very little different done or tried at local shows. They are used to grinding it out. I love Derek Woywood, but for God's sake, realize that there's a problem not being downtown Philadelphia! You might double your walk throughs and the dealers will come back.

 

I give the Big Apple credit for at least trying to think of new ideas, but their main problems are location and venue. There are more problems to solve than just who is attending, although the problems are all inter connected.

 

What I'm suggesting Dave, is that while I understand that you don't want to feel like people are telling you that you're doing everything wrong, there are probably things you have never tried before beyond the traditional way of thinking about a show that might help tap into the preexisting base of fans which already exists. Yes the hobby is shrinking, but it isn't that small if major cities still can draw thousands and thousands of fans -- why don't even a fraction attend local shows?

[langur88]

Langur- I don't even know what you are arguing any more.....

 

I am not arguing anything.

[Silver Surfer]

And, same of Harley, he seems to have the books I want, at 2X what I'm willing to pay.

 

Harley would get a lot more of my business if that 2X thing weren't true.

Not that he's hurting because he doesn't get much of my business that is. Just wish his prices were a little lower.

 

Yes, I understand that you sometimes have to pay more to get more.

 

I will pay Harley prices because he has found GA books for me that I could never find in a given grade.

 

I picked up a book that I have only ever seen one other copy before and I'm sure I could get double for it today if I wanted. Harley let me buy it with time payments and even though it was already packed to be sent off to San Diego where he could have probably sold it for more but he put it aside for me.

[Buck Biggins]

And, same of Harley, he seems to have the books I want, at 2X what I'm willing to pay.

 

Harley would get a lot more of my business if that 2X thing weren't true.

Not that he's hurting because he doesn't get much of my business that is. Just wish his prices were a little lower.

 

Yes, I understand that you sometimes have to pay more to get more.

 

I will pay Harley prices because he has found GA books for me that I could never find in a given grade.

 

I picked up a book that I have only ever seen one other copy before and I'm sure I could get double for it today if I wanted. Harley let me buy it with time payments and even though it was already packed to be sent off to San Diego where he could have probably sold it for more but he put it aside for me.

 

That was the exact same situation with me.

[ronm3-migration]

I give the Big Apple credit for at least trying to think of new ideas, but their main problems are location and venue. There are more problems to solve than just who is attending, although the problems are all inter connected.

 

In Manhattan there is no such thing as a bad location because every spot is easily accessible.

It's the lack of advertising. They don't market the shows properly.

Then once you get to the show everything is overpriced.

It is easier for me to stay home and surf the internet then go to a show.

I know that eventually the book I am looking for will show up on Ebay and I will get it for a more than fair price.

Alot of the guys that show up at shows are long time collectors who have appointments to see certain dealers. You see the same people at every show.

They need to get some new blood.

The Javitts show was the right way to do the show. Lets see how they do this year.

[langur88]

 

What I'm suggesting Dave, is that while I understand that you don't want to feel like people are telling you that you're doing everything wrong, there are probably things you have never tried before beyond the traditional way of thinking about a show that might help tap into the preexisting base of fans which already exists. Yes the hobby is shrinking, but it isn't that small if major cities still can draw thousands and thousands of fans -- why don't even a fraction attend local shows?

 

 

I have always been willing to listen to any and all suggestions but at some point the dollar cost per attendee has to be weighed. It's easy to say "spend more money on advertising". It's not their money/budget.

 

Over 8000 people (allegedly) attended Wizard World Boston while I am lucky to break 800.

 

What percent of attendees go to a Wizard World show purely to buy comic books?

[Buck Biggins]

Says the man shelling 5X guide for 9.4 BA Horror books

 

 

I was just paying 2X guide for the books I was talking about from Harley.

 

I'm dying to see your MH books...I'm sure they are all 9.2 or better...

 

Were in the same boat goofball. Its like a treasure hunt with no map.

[october]

I have set-up and run over 300 shows.

 

Indicative of the woeful state of the industry.

[nik]

Oh SNAP

[Foolkiller]

 

What I'm suggesting Dave, is that while I understand that you don't want to feel like people are telling you that you're doing everything wrong, there are probably things you have never tried before beyond the traditional way of thinking about a show that might help tap into the preexisting base of fans which already exists. Yes the hobby is shrinking, but it isn't that small if major cities still can draw thousands and thousands of fans -- why don't even a fraction attend local shows?

 

 

I have always been willing to listen to any and all suggestions but at some point the dollar cost per attendee has to be weighed. It's easy to say "spend more money on advertising". It's not their money/budget.

 

Over 8000 people (allegedly) attended Wizard World Boston while I am lucky to break 800.

 

What percent of attendees go to a Wizard World show purely to buy comic books?

 

It's not always the amount of money you spend but the manner and targetting of the advertising dollars you do spend. I wouldn't suggest spending like a drunken sailor and blasting advertising dollars in every medium. But I think a good promoter would research the best outlets that have the most traffic for comic specific collectors -- vintage collectors aside, hot book collectors are also "comic collectors who can be reached (i.e. the Wizard crew). 8k, in attendence at WW Boston -- you figure 7200 can't be out of the area and/or non comic fans. They may be more ancillary fans. The numbers in Philly are even worse -- 15k through the door -- 200 at the local show. Where's the other 14,800?

 

It's not that the rest all aren't comic collectors, it's thinking about where comic collectors are likely to see the advertising. Aside from the cheap way of having flyers in every local comic shop, advertising in a local paper (there must be something like the Philly Weekly up in Boston) where the advertising is also likely cheap might pay off. If Wizard is no longer cost effective, what is the cost of web advertising -- ? What are the most visited comic fan web sites? Easy research to conduct and a built in audience for the advertising especially for the younger, technology savvy collectors.

[ronm3-migration]

Life was much better when comics only cost a quarter.

[langur88]

I have set-up at and/or run over 300 shows.

 

Indicative of the woeful state of the industry.

 

No. Indicative of years of hard work.

 

Wouldn't there be less shows if the state was woeful?

 

Your statement make no sense.

[langur88]

If Wizard is no longer cost effective

 

All of our 2007 shows will be in Wizard. I tried a few different things in the last quarter of 2006. But we will be in all 2007 issues of Wizard and CBG. I will be handing out a lot of fliers at NYCC for future shows.

[SuperBird]

speaking for myself, I would not know about your shows without seeing them listed in TONY or the NY Times, or a flyer at my LCS- unless I got a postcard or email from you (which I don't). The only place I've heard of your shows has been recently, from this board, and I've been a comic collector in NYC for years.