a Metropolis vs. CGC grading thread

[Cat-Man_America]

Two of the books in my signature line were purchased raw from Metro. They're the first issue of Plastic Man (Vital, NN) and Silver Streak #7 (Lev Gleason). Both were graded 9.0 based on recollection, the Plastic Man book was unrestored, the Silver Streak has moderate professional restoration (disclosed), but it's a very tough book, I wanted it and Metro offered the book at a reasonable price. I examined the Plastic Man prior to purchase at NYCC so I had no misconceptions about the book. There were no obvious flaws, but in both cases these raw books graded even higher.

 

In this case, Metro did a great job of meeting and beating the customer's expectations, wouldn't you agree?

 

So the general question is this: would folks rather base their judgment of Metro's service on anecdotal evidence (including mine) or go the extra mile, check out their inventory and ask the right questions before purchasing when scans don't provide enough answers?

 

 

[Transplant]

The wheels are in motion.

 

Wasn't that from the Ian Levine thread

What do you collect, sonny?

[Gotham Kid]

tec 50: metro 8.5 - CGC 8.0

tec 44: metro 8.5 - CBCS 8.5 -> CGC 8.0

tec 49: metro 7.0 - CGC 7.0

 

none of the books was cleaned/pressed. straight sub.

 

the tec 49 now lies in a CGC 7.5 holder. (not mine)

 

(thumbs u @ Vincent, who personally verified each copy. Grading is not an exact science and therefore subjective.

 

however, tec 43 8.5 (prior grade listed vfnm 9.0) used to be CGC 7.0 , and that's why it continues to sit there ...

 

I assume the Tec 43 was cracked by the consignor, but still ....

 

nope, that's Metros book

 

Correct.

[Bomber-Bob]

Two of the books in my signature line were purchased raw from Metro. They're the first issue of Plastic Man (Vital, NN) and Silver Streak #7 (Lev Gleason). Both were graded 9.0 based on recollection, the Plastic Man book was unrestored, the Silver Streak has moderate professional restoration (disclosed), but it's a very tough book, I wanted it and Metro offered the book at a reasonable price. I examined the Plastic Man prior to purchase at NYCC so I had no misconceptions about the book. There were no obvious flaws, but in both cases these raw books graded even higher.

 

In this case, Metro did a great job of meeting and beating the customer's expectations, wouldn't you agree?

 

So the general question is this: would folks rather base their judgment of Metro's service on anecdotal evidence (including mine) or go the extra mile, check out their inventory and ask the right questions before purchasing when scans don't provide enough answers?

 

 

Years ago, before CGC, I purchased some GA books from a Metro ad in the CBG. They seemed to be graded appropriately, all were in the VF+ to NM- range. When I decided to purge any GA books from my collection I brought the books to Metro at a show in Chicago, offering them for sale. As a buyer, they offered me Overstreet guide @ the FN price, stating none of the books were higher than FN/VF. I walked away and have never done business with them again. I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

[Cat-Man_America]

Two of the books in my signature line were purchased raw from Metro. They're the first issue of Plastic Man (Vital, NN) and Silver Streak #7 (Lev Gleason). Both were graded 9.0 based on recollection, the Plastic Man book was unrestored, the Silver Streak has moderate professional restoration (disclosed), but it's a very tough book, I wanted it and Metro offered the book at a reasonable price. I examined the Plastic Man prior to purchase at NYCC so I had no misconceptions about the book. There were no obvious flaws, but in both cases these raw books graded even higher.

 

In this case, Metro did a great job of meeting and beating the customer's expectations, wouldn't you agree?

 

So the general question is this: would folks rather base their judgment of Metro's service on anecdotal evidence (including mine) or go the extra mile, check out their inventory and ask the right questions before purchasing when scans don't provide enough answers?

 

 

Years ago, before CGC, I purchased some GA books from a Metro ad in the CBG. They seemed to be graded appropriately, all were in the VF+ to NM- range. When I decided to purge any GA books from my collection I brought the books to Metro at a show in Chicago, offering them for sale. As a buyer, they offered me Overstreet guide @ the FN price, stating none of the books were higher than FN/VF. I walked away and have never done business with them again. I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

 

It's difficult defending any dealer's business practices without knowing all of the particulars. I'm indeed sorry to learn of your disappointing experience, but allow me to offer one possible scenario that might've been in play here.

 

When you bought the books "before CGC" the only grading system in wide acceptance was provided by Overstreet. In fact, Overstreet grading was the gold standard until CGC came along. After CGC established their own proprietory ten point system it was a game changer and at odds with Overstreet in ways that raw book dealers couldn't ignore. It also meant that dealers buying and selling raw books had to reevaluate their own inventories taking into account the tighter grading standards that CGC used. Any dealer that didn't risked accusations of grossly over grading if their customers chose to have their raw books regraded by CGC.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that due to changes in how books were graded pre- and post-CGC it might've influenced Metro's regrading and the offers made. You didn't say when you tried to sell the books back to Metro, but if it was after CGC was in operation it seems logical that this could have influenced how raw books were purchased and graded for resale. Of course, I realize that this possibility doesn't make the outcome seem any fairer.

 

My

[BEAUMONTS]

Two of the books in my signature line were purchased raw from Metro. They're the first issue of Plastic Man (Vital, NN) and Silver Streak #7 (Lev Gleason). Both were graded 9.0 based on recollection, the Plastic Man book was unrestored, the Silver Streak has moderate professional restoration (disclosed), but it's a very tough book, I wanted it and Metro offered the book at a reasonable price. I examined the Plastic Man prior to purchase at NYCC so I had no misconceptions about the book. There were no obvious flaws, but in both cases these raw books graded even higher.

 

In this case, Metro did a great job of meeting and beating the customer's expectations, wouldn't you agree?

 

So the general question is this: would folks rather base their judgment of Metro's service on anecdotal evidence (including mine) or go the extra mile, check out their inventory and ask the right questions before purchasing when scans don't provide enough answers?

 

 

Years ago, before CGC, I purchased some GA books from a Metro ad in the CBG. They seemed to be graded appropriately, all were in the VF+ to NM- range. When I decided to purge any GA books from my collection I brought the books to Metro at a show in Chicago, offering them for sale. As a buyer, they offered me Overstreet guide @ the FN price, stating none of the books were higher than FN/VF. I walked away and have never done business with them again. I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

 

"Grading

 

Metropolis Collectibles created the 10 point grading scale used throughout the world of comic collecting. The owners are both Senior Overstreet Price Guide Advisors and our other graders are Overstreet Price Guide Advisors as well. Collectively, our team has over 100 years of comic book grading experience. Everyday we strive to give our comics the most accurate grades possible. We thank you for your patronage and hope you enjoy your purchases.

Metropolis guarantees that only books described as restored are restored. In the rare case you discover a book Metropolis sold you as unrestored is restored Metropolis will give you a 100% refund within the first 14 days. We consider books graded by CGC and placed into a blue, Universal holder to be unrestored. Customers are responsible for any expenses incurred in the discovery of restoration or shipping costs.

 

In the rare event that your item is currently out of stock, you will be notified promptly and receive a full refund."

 

You would think that since they "created" the ten point grading scale that it shouldn't change with the advent of CGC, you would also like to believe that there purchase grading and selling grading would correlate because of the 10 point system. Apparently not.

This either indicates - there grading is all over the board

- rose colored glasses when selling magnifying glass when purchasing

- That you are not in the upper echelon in the BSD club. So you are relegated to peasant status.

 

[H0RR0RSH0W]

 

"Grading

 

Metropolis Collectibles created the 10 point grading scale used throughout the world of comic collecting. The owners are both Senior Overstreet Price Guide Advisors and our other graders are Overstreet Price Guide Advisors as well. Collectively, our team has over 100 years of comic book grading experience. Everyday we strive to give our comics the most accurate grades possible. We thank you for your patronage and hope you enjoy your purchases.

Metropolis guarantees that only books described as restored are restored. In the rare case you discover a book Metropolis sold you as unrestored is restored Metropolis will give you a 100% refund within the first 14 days. We consider books graded by CGC and placed into a blue, Universal holder to be unrestored. Customers are responsible for any expenses incurred in the discovery of restoration or shipping costs.

 

In the rare event that your item is currently out of stock, you will be notified promptly and receive a full refund."

 

 

...from the Metropolis comics website.

[1koko]

A few years back I bought a raw Tec #27 from Metro.

 

They graded it a 7.0 SA

 

I thought it was a 6.5 SA

 

CGC graded it a 7.5 SA

[G.A.tor]

A few years back I bought a raw Tec #27 from Metro.

 

They graded it a 7.0 SA

 

I thought it was a 6.5 SA

 

CGC graded it a 7.5 SA

you were all wrong

[Bomber-Bob]

A few years back I bought a raw Tec #27 from Metro.

 

They graded it a 7.0 SA

 

I thought it was a 6.5 SA

 

CGC graded it a 7.5 SA

 

 

Sounds like they treat their friends from England pretty good. Grading on restored books is a slippery slope, even for CGC. If a color breaking crease is touched up, do you grade the book like the flaw is there or not there ? Does a sealed spine split have a split spine for grading purposes or not. Etc.....

[MrBedrock]

A few years back I bought a raw Tec #27 from Metro.

 

They graded it a 7.0 SA

 

I thought it was a 6.5 SA

 

CGC graded it a 7.5 SA

Did you send them some extra money to cover the difference?

[Dark Knight]

I too have a difficult time grading restored books, more so moderate and extensive restoration. Slight is fairly easy because most defects are not repaired. The difference between a 6.5-7.5 mod. or ext. restoration is identical if not close to it. I just need more practice grading such books.

[jimjum12]

I've deslabbed a lot of CGC's and the slab often hides defects, so judging their grading while the book is slabbed might be misleading. Other factors involve the "buy the book and not the label" approach that many seasoned collectors employ..... which will unfairly give CGC an advantage.... by choosing the better efforts as the "standard" CGC grade. On the other hand, if I see a book listed, graded by CGC, for which no image is available yet,..... I will buy it sight unseen. I have that much confidence in their grading. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[1950's war comics]

I would say 66 % of the golden age war comics I have bought from metro over a 18 month span were over graded by up to 4 grade points compared to CGC grading standards , and yet they still charge top dollar for their perceived grade,

VERY doubtful I will ever buy from them again

[AnkurJ]

A few years back I bought a raw Tec #27 from Metro.

 

They graded it a 7.0 SA

 

I thought it was a 6.5 SA

 

CGC graded it a 7.5 SA

Did you send them some extra money to cover the difference?

 

Probably not the same book, but about three years ago I was offered a raw restored Tec 27 by Metropolis. I told them I was interested but wanted the book slabbed. They said the consignor didn't want to spend money getting it graded so I passed. Look back I don't regret my decision even though the book was much cheaper than it would be today.

[GBartholomew]

Why wouldn't a seller spend a small amount of money compared to the value of the book to verify there wasn't anything done to it? That just doesn't smell right to me. I am sure that you, and many others on this board, would have happily paid the grading fee if you were going to buy the book especially for such a grail like a Tec 27. If the buyer was told no restoration(or whatever the case may be) on a 6 figure book, then pony up the few grand to verify it to prove it to them.

[Badger]

Why wouldn't a seller spend a small amount of money compared to the value of the book to verify there wasn't anything done to it? That just doesn't smell right to me. I am sure that you, and many others on this board, would have happily paid the grading fee if you were going to buy the book especially for such a grail like a Tec 27. If the buyer was told no restoration(or whatever the case may be) on a 6 figure book, then pony up the few grand to verify it to prove it to them.

 

I bought my All Select #1 from Metro raw at last years SDCC. They allowed me to go page by page through the book and Vincent reviewed it, very quickly, in my presence. Vincent, Frank (Metro employee), and I all agreed that it was a 7.5 as it sat. Its main problem was staple tears. It saved me a couple of grand buying it raw and I felt confident in my grading skills to purchase it raw. I only got it graded because my wife threatened to kill me if I didn't. Anyway it came back from CGC unrestored 7.5 with off-white to white pages. I thought the page quality was actually higher but I won't quibble.

 

Dealers do not always get high end books graded to either "leave some meat on the bone" for the buyer or because inventory turnover can be more important than squeaking out every thin dime from a book. I worked for a comic store in the 90s whose attitude was to sell in bulk at 20 to 40% off. By doing this they always knew they could churn inventory quickly and that they always had a ready supply of customers for pretty much anything they got in. Our annual sale was a madhouse.

 

Through hard experience I do not trust dealers who will never ever use third party grading; however, not everything in a dealers inventory has to be third-party graded if the dealer is aiming for an educated clientele who can accurately grade for themselves.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

Why wouldn't a seller spend a small amount of money compared to the value of the book to verify there wasn't anything done to it? That just doesn't smell right to me. I am sure that you, and many others on this board, would have happily paid the grading fee if you were going to buy the book especially for such a grail like a Tec 27. If the buyer was told no restoration(or whatever the case may be) on a 6 figure book, then pony up the few grand to verify it to prove it to them.

 

I bought my All Select #1 from Metro raw at last years SDCC. They allowed me to go page by page through the book and Vincent reviewed it, very quickly, in my presence. Vincent, Frank (Metro employee), and I all agreed that it was a 7.5 as it sat. Its main problem was staple tears. It saved me a couple of grand buying it raw and I felt confident in my grading skills to purchase it raw. I only got it graded because my wife threatened to kill me if I didn't. Anyway it came back from CGC unrestored 7.5 with off-white to white pages. I thought the page quality was actually higher but I won't quibble.

 

Dealers do not always get high end books graded to either "leave some meat on the bone" for the buyer or because inventory turnover can be more important than squeaking out every thin dime from a book. I worked for a comic store in the 90s whose attitude was to sell in bulk at 20 to 40% off. By doing this they always knew they could churn inventory quickly and that they always had a ready supply of customers for pretty much anything they got in. Our annual sale was a madhouse.

 

Through hard experience I do not trust dealers who will never ever use third party grading; however, not everything in a dealers inventory has to be third-party graded if the dealer is aiming for an educated clientele who can accurately grade for themselves.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative here; just looking for information. Was the AS 1 listed on their site (or at their booth, if it wasn't initially on their site) as a 7.5?

[Cat-Man_America]

 

Years ago, before CGC, I purchased some GA books from a Metro ad in the CBG. They seemed to be graded appropriately, all were in the VF+ to NM- range. When I decided to purge any GA books from my collection I brought the books to Metro at a show in Chicago, offering them for sale. As a buyer, they offered me Overstreet guide @ the FN price, stating none of the books were higher than FN/VF. I walked away and have never done business with them again. I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

 

"Grading

 

Metropolis Collectibles created the 10 point grading scale used throughout the world of comic collecting. The owners are both Senior Overstreet Price Guide Advisors and our other graders are Overstreet Price Guide Advisors as well. Collectively, our team has over 100 years of comic book grading experience. Everyday we strive to give our comics the most accurate grades possible. We thank you for your patronage and hope you enjoy your purchases.

Metropolis guarantees that only books described as restored are restored. In the rare case you discover a book Metropolis sold you as unrestored is restored Metropolis will give you a 100% refund within the first 14 days. We consider books graded by CGC and placed into a blue, Universal holder to be unrestored. Customers are responsible for any expenses incurred in the discovery of restoration or shipping costs.

 

In the rare event that your item is currently out of stock, you will be notified promptly and receive a full refund."

 

You would think that since they "created" the ten point grading scale that it shouldn't change with the advent of CGC, you would also like to believe that there purchase grading and selling grading would correlate because of the 10 point system. Apparently not.

This either indicates - there grading is all over the board

- rose colored glasses when selling magnifying glass when purchasing

- That you are not in the upper echelon in the BSD club. So you are relegated to peasant status.

 

Why would anyone think that?

 

CGC doesn't discuss their proprietory grading methods. If our hosts used exactly the same scale as the OS/Metro guidelines, why wouldn't they discuss it? It isn't an exact science, it's more of a nuanced art with the opinions of graders determining which flaws merit more scrutiny.

 

Most geeks these days have rose colored magnifying glasses.

 

I eschew echelons, peasant company accepted.

 

 

Why wouldn't a seller spend a small amount of money compared to the value of the book to verify there wasn't anything done to it? That just doesn't smell right to me. I am sure that you, and many others on this board, would have happily paid the grading fee if you were going to buy the book especially for such a grail like a Tec 27. If the buyer was told no restoration(or whatever the case may be) on a 6 figure book, then pony up the few grand to verify it to prove it to them.

 

It was the consignor's decision, not Metro's. Who knows, maybe the owner was strapped for cash and hoped for a quick turnaround without delays for third party grading submission. While I agree with the decision not to buy, I wouldn't ascribe any blame or suspicious motives to it.

[buttock]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?