Pressing

[Ze-man]

For a minute, I thought you'd been inhaling carbon monoxide fumes or that you were hopped up on goofballs.

 

 

It was definatly Goofballs..

 

With a large shot of Turi.

 

Ze-

[Sal]

unfortunately, the guy who buys from you and then resells is under no obligation to admit to any pressing that may or may not have happened. while this is out of your hands, the concept of a service being rendered that may make virtually any book a pressed book at low cost bodes ill for the collectors. of course this has nothing to do specifically with esquirecomics per se.

 

 

unless at some point the market decides it doesnt care about pressing, at which point all becomes moot

[Ze-man]

 

Apparently, according to the MH census compiled by Arty, this book was originally graded an 8.5. Since it is now a 9.4, I presume logic dictates it was pressed (unless someone can come up with another reasonable possibility). I bought it already CGC'd so I have no idea of who owned it previously.

 

 

 

Mind if I ask if there are any pre slabbed scans of this book?

Other then the full grade difference.. how sure are you it was pressed?

 

And are you aware of any other large grading discrepancies of how Arty graded his books -vs- how those books submitted to CGC were graded?

I

 

I am just curious if this is a common occurrence with MH books bought RAW.. and then recieving a much higher grade by CGC.

 

Is Arty an undergrader? Did he perhaps just miss this one?

 

And lastly.. was this the best case to come out and announce a book was pressed? If you were not sure it really was?

 

No offense meant here.. hope none was taken

 

Ze-

 

And about the last paragraph in your post...

I still wonder if most forms of pressing COULD be detected with a large % of accuracy. Would all those who currently say pressing is not resto, change their tune?

If pressing was policable... would it be?

Similar to if trimming a book or color touching up a cover, What if all of a sudden we were NOT able to detect these practices 90% of the time .. would everyone be forced to change their stance about what trimming, or CT is?

 

Since most forms of pressing cannot currently be detected accurately ... is that why it seems to play such a large part in why it is not considered a form of resto?

Cause it sure seems convenient that most everyone considers pressing to not be a form of resto... coupled with the fact it also cannot be detected very easily.

 

Or can it?

 

[esquirecomics]

 

Apparently, according to the MH census compiled by Arty, this book was originally graded an 8.5. Since it is now a 9.4, I presume logic dictates it was pressed (unless someone can come up with another reasonable possibility). I bought it already CGC'd so I have no idea of who owned it previously.

 

 

 

Mind if I ask if there are any pre slabbed scans of this book?

Other then the full grade difference.. how sure are you it was pressed?

 

And are you aware of any other large grading discrepancies of how Arty graded his books -vs- how those books submitted to CGC were graded?

I

 

I am just curious if this is a common occurrence with MH books bought RAW.. and then recieving a much higher grade by CGC.

 

Is Arty an undergrader? Did he perhaps just miss this one?

 

And lastly.. was this the best case to come out and announce a book was pressed? If you were not sure it really was?

 

 

No offense meant here.. hope none is taken

 

 

Ze-

 

None taken at all. Good questions. I purchased the book through Heritage so that is the only scan prior to mine I am aware of. Again, I don't know the source of the book.

 

I honestly do not know anything about Arty other than his posts (He is from, or at least resides in, Finland and the Fins are pretty trustworthy people and have lots of time on their hands due to the White Nights ).

 

In any event, he posts regularly in the Golden Age section and his MH list is available through each of his posts. While I cannot answer your questions concerning the origin of the data, I can say - and this was my primary influence in accepting the data as reliable (perhaps prematurely, we'll see) - that the Golden Age section has numerous incredible experts currently frequenting and commenting on the boards. Their expertise is particularly clear on the matter of pedigrees such as Mile High. I have seen no negative or even questioning posts in response to Arty's list. If there were significant errors, I do believe they would have been raised. Nevertheless, I will check into it.

 

As far as this being the best book to come forward with in this manner, I suppose we will see, but it was the only copy I own where the evidence tilts that way.

[nearmint]

Arty lists a notation of "very minor amount of glue on cover" on the original 8.5 slab. Does CGC grade down for such a defect? Is it possible that a previous owner cracked the slab, had the glue removed professionally, then resubbed the book without having it pressed?

 

Is the serial # of the first CGC slab known? If so, someone could call CGC and get grader's notes for both slabs. That would give us an indication of whether any defects were pressed out.

 

I agree with CGC that they should not be in the business of guessing whether a book has been pressed. I'm just as uncomfortable with a dealer or collector engaging in the same practice without hard evidence.

 

I'm all for disclosure. Heck, as far as I know, I'm the first person who came out on the boards and admitted to having had a book pressed. But let's not muddle the works without better facts.

[lou_fine]

I wonder if this is the same quality press job for which Matt Nelson charges $70.

 

It may be the best quality available, but one can't help but think you might be getting inferior, rushed work for $20. There is something to be said for the perception of quality of an item that may be priced far below the competition.

 

Hopefully Tracey will address this issue. I'd like to see him expand on what exactly the press job entails and how it stacks up to the competition.

 

Zipper;

 

Very valid question here considering the significant difference in price between the two. Another question here is whether Tracey's $20 fee covers all books including big ticket dollar books.

 

I find it difficult to imagine the same service being performed by Tracey for $20 when Matt is charging a significant percentage of the increase in fair market value of a book for the suppossedly same job.

 

Hmmm....puzzling why Tracey would charge only $20 while Matt can get away with charging thousands of dollars if the right book comes along.

[Ze-man]

Fair enough.. I admit I am not up to speed on the GA forum, or the regulars there

It is of great interest to me. I do not collect GA.(yet). and as of late.. my time I can spend reading the forum is short.

 

And that GA room is FULL of long.. posts. And threads I have not even started.

 

So I will take your word about Arty as gospel. Till somebody shots it full of holes..

And will watch to see if any fallout from your auction is from the obook being pressed.

 

Thnx for your reply.

 

And you are to be commended for being so forthcoming about the book you are selling.

I wish everybody was.

 

Ze-

 

 

And to be clear.. Was the 8.5 grade given out by Arty...RAW?.. or CGC?

[esquirecomics]

And about the last paragraph in your post...

I still wonder if most forms of pressing COULD be detected with a large % of accuracy. Would all those who currently say pressing is not resto, change their tune?

If pressing was policable... would it be?

Similar to if trimming a book or color touching up a cover, What if all of a sudden we were NOT able to detect these practices 90% of the time .. would everyone be forced to change their stance about what trimming, or CT is?

 

Since most forms of pressing cannot currently be detected accurately ... is that why it seems to play such a large part in why it is not considered a form of resto?

Cause it sure seems convenient that most everyone considers pressing to not be a form of resto... coupled with the fact it also cannot be detected very easily.

 

Or can it?

 

Sorry, I missed this part in my first response. There are prior threads specifically discussing the ability to detect pressing so I won't repeat the responses here. I think someone above posted the links to the threads.

 

I will repeat, however, that my primary focus in this debate is not necessarily on whether pressing can be detected 100%, 75% or only 25% of the time, or even if it is restoration. Again, I don't want CGC speculating on this issue, pedigree determinations or any other value-impacting factor.

 

However, where it is known that a book has been pressed - and I do believe with pedigree and certain other copies this can only be more than evident at a level of 100% - I believe disclosure is not only warranted but should be required and denoted on the slab. If as a blue label, so be it. Same as with "slight color touch", "small amount of glue", etc. Then the market will decide how to deal with it.

 

If the powers that be are not concerned that pressing matters or will never be considered restoration, then I see no reason why it should not be noted on the slab when known.

[Ze-man]

Sorry...

 

I forgot to add a on the last part of that post.

 

I too do not want guessing going on. The whole thing just peeves me .

 

Pressing is not easily detectable (NDP)

Pressing a book makes a comic jump up in grade , and the seller makes more money.

CGC slabs bring more money to a seller.

Pressed books graded by CGC bring even more money.

Rinse ..repeat

 

 

Yeah.. I know.. it has all been said before..many times.

But I still do not like the situation.

 

 

 

Ze-

[esquirecomics]

Arty lists a notation of "very minor amount of glue on cover" on the original 8.5 slab. Does CGC grade down for such a defect? Is it possible that a previous owner cracked the slab, had the glue removed professionally, then resubbed the book without having it pressed?

 

Is the serial # of the first CGC slab known? If so, someone could call CGC and get grader's notes for both slabs. That would give us an indication of whether any defects were pressed out.

 

An excellent question, and one I will absolutely obtain the answer to if someone does not post it first. I would be troubled to know the book could jump up three levels just b/c of the glue, but of course I am not a grader with CGC.

 

I will also need to check with Arty as to the source of his original data on this book, and will report back.

[nearmint]

Ze-

I know you're passionate about this subject, but you forget one important fact about pressing...

 

The book looks better.

 

People can make flat-as-a-pancake jokes all day and night, but the book I had pressed looks nothing like a pancake to me.

[Ze-man]

I know.. your book indeed does look better. And I would think your book was cover pressed only? I cannot remember the extent of what was done to your book tho?

 

I think improper flat pressing an entire book is how pancakes are made?

 

Ze-

[nearmint]

I know.. your book indeed does look better. And I would think your book was cover pressed only? I cannot remember the extent of what was done to your book tho?

 

I think improper flat pressing an entire book is how pancakes are made?

 

Ze-

 

The invoice from Matt simply said "pressed". My assumption was that the whole book was pressed, but I'd have to ask Matt to be sure.

 

I just wanted to point out that there is a positive side to pressing.

[greggy]

If the book was resubbed and the label returned, the original notes will no longer be available!

[nearmint]

There is still an 8.5 in the census. Maybe this is the rare case where it's a good thing that the label was not returned.

[greggy]

Chuck's original grade for the book was a fine.

[awe4one]

If the book is not taken apart and the pressing is not done correctly (too much humidity, heat, and/or pressure) the resulting damage done to the book is graded as a defect or set of defects and the book is downgraded accordingly into a BLUE label slab.

 

IE Amateur pressing...

 

Not surprisingly you're completely missing the point of my question. I'm not here to argue with you once again.

 

Will Eclipse guarantee the book will not get a PLOD for pressing (or the effects of pressing if you want to drill that far down)? Steve said they will give PLODs for amateur pressing. Tracey Heft is a professional comics restorer from what I gather. Is he willing to guarantee his pressing work will not get PLODed? Sensible and simple question...

 

Jim

[greggy]

There is still an 8.5 in the census. Maybe this is the rare case where it's a good thing that the label was not returned.

Here's the original Heritage listing --> Original listing and here's the most recent sale --> Recent sale

 

The original listing notes a blemish on the BC. Looks like whatever was in the "d" in the "Short-handed" on the BC was removed.

[greggy]

If the book is not taken apart and the pressing is not done correctly (too much humidity, heat, and/or pressure) the resulting damage done to the book is graded as a defect or set of defects and the book is downgraded accordingly into a BLUE label slab.

 

IE Amateur pressing...

 

Not surprisingly you're completely missing the point of my question. I'm not here to argue with you once again.

 

Will Eclipse guarantee the book will not get a PLOD for pressing (or the effects of pressing if you want to drill that far down)? Steve said they will give PLODs for amateur pressing. Tracey Heft is a professional comics restorer from what I gather. Is he willing to pressing guarantee his work will not get PLODed? Sensible and simple question...

 

Jim

Steve said this in a previous thread: "Skybolt - When a book is badly pressed, you can still see signs of creases and other defects, so we treat it the way we would treat any other book, by down grading for those defects. Others have gotten a purple because they really ruined the book, I know this because the submitter will call and say that the book was not cleaned, only pressed. I tell them that if it looks cleaned and feels, it does not matter how it got that way. If a book is "squashed" it is also down graded. If we cannot tell if a book has been pressed, I guess it is done correctly or it has not been pressed at all.

 

And Jim- I don't let others do the talking for me, I agreed with what he said. Why should I type that stuff out all over again, which I have already explained on these boards before, instead of just giving it the "thumbs up" ? What is the difference? I know you have a bug about CGC and the pressing issue, but do not make it personal. "

 

The link to it is in this thread - post number 684390 --> Link to post

[nearmint]

Good catch, Greggy. That could be the difference between 8.5 and 9.4.

 

Looking at the Heritage scans, I don't see any defects that could have been corrected by pressing. But many would argue that the removal of that blemish should have garnered this book a PLOD.