eBay Issue: Slab returned .... BUT!!

[drotto]

Simple question, to play devil's advocate. I know this is an issue with eBay because of return shipping costs etc. Would anyone be arguing this buyers right to return if he had bought it at a normal store, and brought it back undamaged with receipt?

 

depends on the return policy - my ad said no returns. Yet according to many, eBay will force me to take the return.

 

If I walked into a store, bought something that was 'final sale/no return' and tried to walk in at a later date and return it, would they take it back? Nope.

 

I have been on both side of the eBay equation. One of the very first things I ever sold was a poster. I missed that one of the corners had a small ding in it. We figured things out without bringing eBay claims into the picture, everyone walked away more or less happy. I learned something about selling, and how to deal with people.

 

Recently, I was on the other side when I bought a book that did not look as good as the one in the picture, and turned out not to be the one in the picture. I hashed things out with the seller, and he agreed to take the book back. And maybe I am a sucker, because I paid the return postage.

[Number 6]

Simple question, to play devil's advocate. I know this is an issue with eBay because of return shipping costs etc. Would anyone be arguing this buyers right to return if he had bought it at a normal store, and brought it back undamaged with receipt?

 

 

Most stores have a stipulated window of time in which to return merchandise. As long as it was withinn that time-frame, personally I'd have no problem that.

 

And if a buyer on eBay purchased a slab and didn't care for it when he got in hand, wanted to return it (within a reasonable time-frame of course) but is willing to pay all the shipping costs and it gets back to me safely, I'd have no problem with that either. I would continue to do business with them.

 

And if I neglected a detail about a slab - such a small crack or sleek - as a seller I would expect to pay some if not all the shipping costs when the buyer wants to return it.

[drotto]

Simple question, to play devil's advocate. I know this is an issue with eBay because of return shipping costs etc. Would anyone be arguing this buyers right to return if he had bought it at a normal store, and brought it back undamaged with receipt?

 

 

Most stores have a stipulated window of time in which to return merchandise. As long as it was withinn that time-frame, personally I'd have no problem that.

 

And if a buyer on eBay purchased a slab and didn't care for it when he got in hand, wanted to return it (within a reasonable time-frame of course) but is willing to pay all the shipping costs and it gets back to me safely, I'd have no problem with that either. I would continue to do business with them.

 

And if I neglected a detail about a slab - such a small crack or sleek - as a seller I would expect to pay some if not all the shipping costs when the buyer wants to return it.

 

All very reasonable. I think most people would agree, if you have something for a month or two its yours.

[kav]

What if you buy a refirgerator and after 3 months it craps out?

[drotto]

What if you buy a refirgerator and after 3 months it craps out?

 

Apples and oranges. There is a reason you have a warranty on electronic items or cars, no such thing exists on items like books, clothing, etc. Plus, your aftermarket protection under the law is usually very different to absent on any item not purchased new.

[kav]

What if you buy a hologram cover comic that LCS owner swears will be worth thousands in a year and its not.

[Michelangelo]

Simple question, to play devil's advocate. I know this is an issue with eBay because of return shipping costs etc. Would anyone be arguing this buyers right to return if he had bought it at a normal store, and brought it back undamaged with receipt?

 

 

Most stores have a stipulated window of time in which to return merchandise. As long as it was withinn that time-frame, personally I'd have no problem that.

 

And if a buyer on eBay purchased a slab and didn't care for it when he got in hand, wanted to return it (within a reasonable time-frame of course) but is willing to pay all the shipping costs and it gets back to me safely, I'd have no problem with that either. I would continue to do business with them.

 

And if I neglected a detail about a slab - such a small crack or sleek - as a seller I would expect to pay some if not all the shipping costs when the buyer wants to return it.

 

exactly - all within reason..

[ecgt]

Just as a point of clarification about how eBay's returns work now. You have the option to accept returns or not. If you accept returns then you must accept returns for any reason and the rules for who pays return shipping and whether or not a customer is eligible to receive the original shipping cost back depends on the scenario.

 

However, if you do not accept returns there is one scenario that trumps all: item not as described. Here is the policy verbatim: "Important: Even if you specify "no returns accepted," under the eBay Money Back Guarantee the buyer can still return an item if it doesn't match the listing description. Learn more about what the eBay Money Back Guarantee means to sellers."

 

This is on the eBay.ca and eBay.com; here is the link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-policy.html

 

With this in mind, had the buyer stated that he no longer wanted the item because he bought it cheaper somewhere else (or any other reason other than "not as described," you would not have to accept the return). The major flaw with this system is that as buyers become more knowledgeable about this policy it has become more and more common for returnees to claim not as described to be guaranteed the ability to return an item and also to avoid paying return shipping. The Money Back Guarantee almost always works in the buyers favour with not as described issues because eBay sees such scenarios as "he said, she said."

 

 

[Michelangelo]

Just as a point of clarification about how eBay's returns work now. You have the option to accept returns or not. If you accept returns then you must accept returns for any reason and the rules for who pays return shipping and whether or not a customer is eligible to receive the original shipping cost back depends on the scenario.

 

However, if you do not accept returns there is one scenario that trumps all: item not as described. Here is the policy verbatim: "Important: Even if you specify "no returns accepted," under the eBay Money Back Guarantee the buyer can still return an item if it doesn't match the listing description. Learn more about what the eBay Money Back Guarantee means to sellers."

 

This is on the eBay.ca and eBay.com; here is the link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-policy.html

 

With this in mind, had the buyer stated that he no longer wanted the item because he bought it cheaper somewhere else (or any other reason other than "not as described," you would not have to accept the return). The major flaw with this system is that as buyers become more knowledgeable about this policy it has become more and more common for returnees to claim not as described to be guaranteed the ability to return an item and also to avoid paying return shipping. The Money Back Guarantee almost always works in the buyers favour with not as described issues because eBay sees such scenarios as "he said, she said."

 

Huge flaw indeed - thanks for looking that up and posting it.

 

To accept returns under eBay's policy, you're going to take something back for any and every reason (plus pay shipping both ways most likely).

 

'Item not as described' is a loophole that too many buyers know about. It's a 100% guarantee for buyers to return, no questions asked. Whether or not that's the policy, doesn't make it a good one.

 

I'm fine with returns under certain circumstances (even if I specified 'no returns accepted'). If I made a mistake, sure I'll take it back.

 

But this isn't a car, or washer/dryer or a fridge. It's not a TV or a lawnmower (which would all come with a manufacturer's warranty).. Even in those cases, it's not the store that gets shafted, they send 'faulty' product back to the manufacturer directly. This is a third party graded book in a plastic case.

 

The buyer who returned my book was definitely knowledgeable with eBay returns and seemed to know the system inside and out. He was very careful with the wording in his messages to me, as if he were trying to hit all the necessary 'buzz words.'

 

His claim (not as described) was that there was a white line on the foot of Spider-Man (likely a production error as if it were a crease, CGC would not have given it a 9.8). His argument is that my listing should have mentioned that! By this same logic, I can buy a CGC 3.0 and say, "Hey! you didn't mention this very specific crease or the small 1/4" tear on the back cover... this looks like fraud!'

 

He even said he contacted CGC and questioned whether a book could be given a 9.8 with a line on it. Of course (according to him) CGC told him "absolutely not". Further, he suggested I could pay a $100 fee to CGC to get them to verify or justify the grading.

 

Seriously, block this guy - he's trouble...

[Gaard]

Basically, it's moronic to accept returns...

I guess this is true if $ is more important than a happy customer.

 

I've learned much from this thread.

For instance, if a flaw is visible in the pic, you don't need to put it in your description.

I've also learned that somehow you gain lifelong customers even though you block them.

 

Serious question...why do people not accept returns for slabs?

[the blob]

Basically, it's moronic to accept returns...

I guess this is true if $ is more important than a happy customer.

 

I've learned much from this thread.

For instance, if a flaw is visible in the pic, you don't need to put it in your description.

I've also learned that somehow you gain lifelong customers even though you block them.

 

Serious question...why do people not accept returns for slabs?

 

If you don't accept returns then the disgruntled are going to go the "item not as described" route. if you accept returns the buyer pays return shipping, if you check that box, and maybe they don't try the b.s.?. on something like this where it is certified and the scan shows it, i would be pissy about me (the seller) paying return shipping. but i paid return shipping (indeed, forwarded the buyer the money to print out the label) on a "ripply" silver surfer 44 (like 80% of the production it seems) that was otherwise NM when it just wasn't worth fighting over. the buyer actually did not accept the money and insisted on paying for the return shipping out of his own pocket! go figure. it all worked out. i gave it as a freebie on a $365 purchase and that buyer was thrilled.

[the blob]

it is a little disturbing how everyone starts scream "fraud". cgc certified this book. you are selling the certification with a comic inside. that white line was not caused by the slab getting manhandled or anything.

[wombat]

The short version is if you sell on ebay you take returns. If you don't want to don't sell on ebay.

[the blob]

right. i don't think it is such a big problem. just build it into your price.

[Gaard]

Basically, it's moronic to accept returns...

I guess this is true if $ is more important than a happy customer.

 

I've learned much from this thread.

For instance, if a flaw is visible in the pic, you don't need to put it in your description.

I've also learned that somehow you gain lifelong customers even though you block them.

 

Serious question...why do people not accept returns for slabs?

 

If you don't accept returns then the disgruntled are going to go the "item not as described" route. if you accept returns the buyer pays return shipping, if you check that box, and maybe they don't try the b.s.?. on something like this where it is certified and the scan shows it, i would be pissy about me (the seller) paying return shipping. but i paid return shipping (indeed, forwarded the buyer the money to print out the label) on a "ripply" silver surfer 44 (like 80% of the production it seems) that was otherwise NM when it just wasn't worth fighting over. the buyer actually did not accept the money and insisted on paying for the return shipping out of his own pocket! go figure. it all worked out. i gave it as a freebie on a $365 purchase and that buyer was thrilled.

Am I understanding this correctly, that it is actually beneficial for the seller to accept returns?

[the blob]

you are likely going to have to accept them one way or the other anyway.

 

personally, i have not had a real problem over the years, i can think of maybe 2 outright returns out of 2000+ sales on ebay, i just haven't run into the scammers who seem to be out there. some books i have missed things and i just refund or whatever. i don't think we're talking about more than 10-12 of these and i doubt i am any better with my listings than the average established person here.

[Michelangelo]

The plot thickens:

 

- I accepted the return; buyer paid return shipping via UPS

- I asked him to put "return for full refund" on customs document (to avoid me paying customs fees)

- UPS tries to deliver it while I'm at work and won't leave it because I have to pay custom fees ($59.24 CAD)

- I contact the buyer and tell him the situation

 

His reply:

 

"I received a call from a Canadian representative who asked me to verify this was a returned item for full refund. She was very unhappy with my answer and rudely acknowledged my question when I asked if she noted the message written clearly below your name. She actually hung up on me when I told her what she didn't want to hear or read. I don't know what else I could have done for you."

 

WTH?

 

I have to pick this up on Monday from the UPS warehouse...

[ttfitz]

Basically, it's moronic to accept returns...

I guess this is true if $ is more important than a happy customer.

 

I've learned much from this thread.

For instance, if a flaw is visible in the pic, you don't need to put it in your description.

I've also learned that somehow you gain lifelong customers even though you block them.

 

Serious question...why do people not accept returns for slabs?

 

If you don't accept returns then the disgruntled are going to go the "item not as described" route. if you accept returns the buyer pays return shipping, if you check that box, and maybe they don't try the b.s.?. on something like this where it is certified and the scan shows it, i would be pissy about me (the seller) paying return shipping. but i paid return shipping (indeed, forwarded the buyer the money to print out the label) on a "ripply" silver surfer 44 (like 80% of the production it seems) that was otherwise NM when it just wasn't worth fighting over. the buyer actually did not accept the money and insisted on paying for the return shipping out of his own pocket! go figure. it all worked out. i gave it as a freebie on a $365 purchase and that buyer was thrilled.

Am I understanding this correctly, that it is actually beneficial for the seller to accept returns?

 

Yes. As has been pointed out, the "not as described" option is available which makes "no returns" pretty close to moot. Also, if you want to make Top Rated Plus status (which saves you on fees), you have to offer 14-day or longer return policy. So you might as well list with returns available. You probably attract more business if it is known upfront that you'll take returns.

[kav]

If I see a seller with no returns I just see problems and find someone else to buy from. It definitely affects bidding.

[Chip Cataldo]

...you have to offer 14-day or longer return policy.

...soon to be 30-day or longer. Ya might as well accept 'em. eBay wants sellers to behave just like major retailers.