Why do we value 1st appearances so much??

[Jaydogrules]

I would much rather have and pay top dollar for a Silver Surfer 1 or 4 then a FF 48 since I love those two books. I of course seek out FF 48 since they command big bucks but I've always wondered why people care so much about 1st appearance they will debate for hours over Hulk 180/181.

 

For someone who collects comics to not understand why people seek out first appearances is... uh weird. It really is.

 

Also, comparing FF48 to Hulk 180/181 is not a fair comparison. People seek out FF48 because it's a true first appearance. People seek out Hulk 181 over 180 because it's more valuable. However, 180 is clearly the first time Wolvie appears

 

For someone who collects comics to not understand why people seek out first full appearances is... uh, weird. It really is.

 

Back when collectors used to actually read the books, they would discover characters after they debuted and seek out the history they missed. Collectors wanted to read stories with and about the character they loved, not stories about something else entirely where their character pops in for a quick "Hey! Buy the next issue, where you actually get to see me do something." in a single panel.

 

Just like first appearance means first story appearance and not some ad, article in a trade magazine or whatever, first full appearance means first full story appearance where the character actually matters to the story. Most of the time they are the same thing, but sometimes the next issue just really needed to retain the readers, I guess.

 

"People seek out Hulk 181 over 180 because it's more valuable."

 

If that were true, people should have been seeking out 180 over 181 this entire time, since it was more valuable early on.

 

Amen.

 

-J.

[kav]

Why is the first man on the moon so important?

 

This.

Ps Buzz Aldrin argued vociferously that he should be first. This did not endear him to NASA.

[Number 6]

And I'm not just talking the recent movie speculation books but why is AF 15 so much more desirable then Spiderman 1? Does it stem from the sports card market where rookie cards were the ones people wanted but if that is so, why? People do not generally pay crazy money for the 1st piece of art from an artist but instead look for his best piece and pay out the nose for it.

 

I could understand if the 1st appearance was rare and the second issue on was common but in some cases the 1st appearance is easily gotten while the later appearances are rare and people still pay crazy money for the 1st appearance. Anyone have an opinion why this is?

 

Speaking as a collector, I think it's the allure of the unknown potential.

 

I would venture that most of us discover and fall in love with these characters after they've already established their importance within pop-culture, or at the very least within comic book culture. And even for those who had the serendipitous luck to be there from the beginning, how many could truly say they knew these characters would achieve this status, with accompanying wealth of stories, film and T.V. adaptations, and mountains of merchandise?

 

At some point, a collector's interest and affection for a character moves him to want to try and tap that pivotal moment. I suppose it's akin to those who collect pedigree comics - trying to find an issue that's as close as possible to buying a 50+ year-old comic off the spinner rack. Of course, there's no way to completely recapture that opportunity, just as there's no way to completely recapture the moment when no one knew who or what the Bat-man was. But still, your love for the character moves you to try and get as close to that moment as you can.

 

I think that's what key first appearances represent for collectors.

 

It seems to me that determining a key first appearance is an exercise in hindsight. True, with the increase in value of back issues in the late 60's/early 70's coupled with publishers touting first issues as "collector's items", I suppose key first appearances have become a bit more about foresight and speculation. But while someone can try and make as much of an educated guess as possible, it's the test of time that determines whether a first appearance is truly "key".

 

I find that interesting because it means that true key first appearances are an expression of everything that comes after.

 

To me, that's significant when you consider the current trend to put emphasis on only keys, and disregard everything else as 'worthless drek' - as if keys are the only thing that matters and everything else is a waste of time and money.

 

Yet, if Marvel had published only Incredible Hulk #1 and then never published another issue of the character, would it still be the mega-Silver Age key that it is today?

 

Isn't it the cumulative total of everything that came after that gives Incredible Hulk #1 it's significance? Which would include those hundreds of run issues, most of which aren't key - all that "drek"?

 

A first appearance is key because of the "drek" that gives it context.

 

While I understand making the best use of your discretionary money, I think it's important to not loose sight of the fact that, for most of us, it was the non-key "drek" that caused us to love these characters and covet their first appearances, and it's that body of non-key material that gives key's their context, their significance.

 

 

Anyway, bit of a tangent, I think I may have answered your question in there somewhere.

 

 

[Guardian Comics]

This one is easy, historical significance. Without a first appearance, there is no second appearance or 1,000th.

 

In most cases the "first something" is the most coveted in collectibles. A first day issue stamp, a Star Wars 12 back, a limited edition of 1,000 whose serial number is #1, a first generation Transformers toy etc etc

 

This has been going on in comic books since 1938, before fandom ever existed. The Denver collection of books, consisted solely of only #1 books. This is the way the human mind thinks even without programming and conditioning.

 

As for the person who said why is a Dr. Strange #1 more valuable than a #2. Simply put, the only person looking for a #2 is a Dr. Strange collector, putting together a run. The #1 is being sought out by people who are Dr. Strange collectors, as well as people who collect #1's. Increased demand equals a higher price.

 

Jim

[chrisco37]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

That's easy. Action 1.

[Ken Aldred]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

That's easy. Action 1.

 

Bob Kane's artwork in Tec 27 is worse. Shuster was much better.

[chrisco37]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

That's easy. Action 1.

 

Bob Kane's artwork in Tec 27 is worse. Shuster was much better.

 

Yeah, the interior to Tec 27 is pretty bad. The cover is much better than Action 1 though.

[comixcroz]

And I'm not just talking the recent movie speculation books but why is AF 15 so much more desirable then Spiderman 1? Does it stem from the sports card market where rookie cards were the ones people wanted but if that is so, why? People do not generally pay crazy money for the 1st piece of art from an artist but instead look for his best piece and pay out the nose for it.

 

I could understand if the 1st appearance was rare and the second issue on was common but in some cases the 1st appearance is easily gotten while the later appearances are rare and people still pay crazy money for the 1st appearance. Anyone have an opinion why this is?

 

I think it's the history and nostalgia surrounding the "creative spark" that consummated the creation of these characters. The first appearance of Spider-Man is incredibly important from a historical standpoint. The very first time this character was presented to the public. It could have failed and been another one-off, but it turned into something incredibly special. The idea that you can buy that comic book and imagine what it would have been like to see this character for the very first time is what does it for me. It's getting to travel back in time and own a piece of the characters beginning. Maybe it's just ingrained in me but I think it's obvious why we value them so much.

 

Also, I do think it translates into original art collecting as well. You're correct - it's not as important to find the first time an artist created a published work (although that does get a premium depending on the artist) but the original art from a first appearance issue is going to get a huge premium over just an amazing splash page featuring that same character years later. It might even be more cut and dry in original art. For example, when the original art to Hulk #180 sold for a huge amount recently, no one disputed the fact that it featured the first appearance of Wolverine. Where as comic collectors argue over which book should be more important 180 or 181. I think momentous occasions in any genre are the most sought after collectibles to own.

[vaillant]

I don’t necessarily value first apperances too much, unless they are good stories.

 

Two good examples to me is the first apperance of the Devil Slayer, a character that I love but the origin story is pretty much inconsistent. And I would never buy an Avengers #1, as at the beginning it seemed a book done mostly to cash in on the popularity of the other characters. I like #2 too, with the Space Panthom.

[Wally's Comics]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

Hulk 181 gets my vote!

 

Some of that comic looked like a 5th grader drew it...

 

 

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Action 1. Why is Superman always squinting?

[He11blazer]

Because if I'm showing a non-collector a special comic, they understand the significance when I say "This is the first ever balloonman comic, his first ever story." Then they can look genuinely interested for a few seconds and make a "how about that!" face.

 

If I showed them the one with the fan-favourite pie-in-the-face cover, or the issue considered to mark the beginning of balloonman's post-modern period, they're more likely to make a strained "why would I care?" face.

[Bronty]

Because if I'm showing a non-collector a special comic, they understand the significance when I say "This is the first ever balloonman comic, his first ever story." Then they can look genuinely interested for a few seconds and make a "how about that!" face.

 

If I showed them the one with the fan-favourite pie-in-the-face cover, or the issue considered to mark the beginning of balloonman's post-modern period, they're more likely to make a strained "why would I care?" face.

 

Ehh. They would be just as impressed if you told them it was the second ever balloonman comic. Yet the first has a much higher value.

 

Besides, who cares what Joe Blow thinks, they aren't the ones buying them.

[vaillant]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

Hulk 181 gets my vote!

 

Some of that comic looked like a 5th grader drew it...

 

 

 

You still have to get into the love Herb put into his work to appreciate it.

It always had its limitations, but he needs all the possible respect, together with a few other authors.

[rjrjr]

Because if I'm showing a non-collector a special comic, they understand the significance when I say "This is the first ever balloonman comic, his first ever story." Then they can look genuinely interested for a few seconds and make a "how about that!" face.

 

If I showed them the one with the fan-favourite pie-in-the-face cover, or the issue considered to mark the beginning of balloonman's post-modern period, they're more likely to make a strained "why would I care?" face.

 

Ehh. They would be just as impressed if you told them it was the second ever balloonman comic. Yet the first has a much higher value.

 

Besides, who cares what Joe Blow thinks, they aren't the ones buying them.

 

This.

[Ken Aldred]

 

Does it matter how bad the artwork is if it is on the 1st appearance?

 

this poses an interesting question... what's the most valuable "bad art" comic book?

 

Hulk 181 gets my vote!

 

Some of that comic looked like a 5th grader drew it...

 

 

 

You still have to get into the love Herb put into his work to appreciate it.

It always had its limitations, but he needs all the possible respect, together with a few other authors.

 

Dated, not bad. Solid, workmanlike, of its time.

[rodan57]

 

Dated, not bad. Solid, workmanlike, of its time.

 

Yes. Fair assessment.

[musicmeta]

What is interesting is the very substantial drop off in value for the 2nd appearance.

No love for the 2nd appearance it seems.

[jools&jim]

 

What is interesting is the very substantial drop off in value for the 2nd appearance.

No love for the 2nd appearance it seems.

...this has EVERYTHING to do with Action Comics #1...both a first issue and a first appearance. In fact, THE first issue and THE first appearance.

 

All the chasing after first issues and first appearances, from the earliest days of organized fandom until now, extends from beneath its monolithic shadow...

 

 

 

[Phantalien]

It is just like in my classroom when students complain about butting in line. First in line, first place, first appearance, and the list goes one. Being first is something special.