There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

[lou_fine]

heres what Im talking about.

 

Also, and this may be standard with extensive restoration, most everything looks repainted too, like the Bob Kane sig (which is also repositioned), the lite blue water shapes, and the rule between masthead and artwork. Some of this is no doubt due to the lower resolution of the Pre restoration image they posted.

 

I looked for an unrestored copy for comparison, and added it on the far right.

 

Great graphic, and one that should scare anyone thinking about buying any of these reproductions...stuff like this taints all restored/conserved books IMHO, but I'm sure hammer would be proud!

 

This is strange. Just because it looks good doesn't mean it's restored if it doesn't match the original. If any original images or colors remain missing then the loss should remain an apparent grade-impacting defect. And any ink that creates a new unique image on the book (whether a scribble or something that It fails to match the original image) should also be a defect, as opposed to restoration, because it doesn't "restore" what was there in the first place.

 

I understand that graders can't always know what a book looked like before, but in cases where that information can be provided and is provided, it would be a good thing if a cert company would include that information and give that book a unique resto designation. It would encourage people to provide the befores with the afters.

 

 

Actually, a very interesting and valid point here.

 

From my point of view, if you take a closer look at all 3 of these images, it would appear that both of the restored images (i.e. not jut the 9.8 from the Meyers) have some degree of differences from the original unrestored image.

 

Since this type of restoration work always involved the recreation of some of the artwork, it is probably not realistic to expect an 100% match to all of the exact printed details of the original unrestored copy. This really depends on the artistic ability of the restorers who are humans after all, to try to exactly duplicate the printing details of a printing press machine. I personally believe a 100% match would be a physical impossibility.

 

I guess the real question now is whether these normal and expected variations in the recreated artwork as compared to the original should be treated as a defect for condition grading purposes or simply accepted within reasonable limits (i.e. no stick figures here ) as part and parcel of the EP restoration designation? If they are to be treated as a defect for condition grading purposes, should there simply be a ceiling on how high a EP restored book with recreated artwork can go or should we expect the graders to spend hours going over magnified scans to determine the exact minute variations from the original printed artwork?

 

Can't imagine how much longer the wait times would be if the graders had to now also analyze magnified scans to determine the accuracy of the recreated artwork. Then again, considering the amount of money that has to be paid to grade a GA key, we might finally be getting more of our money's worth.

 

 

[lou_fine]

From the time that Steve and West were at CGC Chris Friesen has been employed solely to spot resto. Matt Nelson's company was later bought by CGC and his restoration knowledge is at their employ. Two resto experts checking and certifying books.

 

As regards Chris F, he had left CGC and is now back as a "Consultant" but I cannot find anything outlining his responsibilities. Paul L. is currently listed as the Primary Grader and Restoration Detection Specialist. So it is hard to figure out, based on published info, the hierarchy.

 

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

[VintageComics]

If they are to be treated as a defect for condition grading purposes, should there simply be a ceiling on how high a EP restored book with recreated artwork can go or should we expect the graders to spend hours going over magnified scans to determine the exact minute variations from the original printed artwork?

 

Can't imagine how much longer the wait times would be if the graders had to now also analyze magnified scans to determine the accuracy of the recreated artwork.

 

Photo-recognition software is instantaneous.

 

You snap a pic of a known good cover and you compare it to all submissions of, say Tec #33. Software would immediately point out any differences, even if minute.

 

As far as how much variation is allowed? I'd speculate very little should be allowed.

[VintageComics]

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Matt is not the only CCS employee.

[lou_fine]

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Matt is not the only CCS employee.

 

I am well aware of this already.

 

Just thought the bulk of his time would still be spent here since this is really his forte and CCS is really his little baby.

 

Maybe it's no longer up to him since he is now just an employee of a much bigger company, instead of an owner of his own little independent company.

[lou_fine]

If they are to be treated as a defect for condition grading purposes, should there simply be a ceiling on how high a EP restored book with recreated artwork can go or should we expect the graders to spend hours going over magnified scans to determine the exact minute variations from the original printed artwork?

 

Can't imagine how much longer the wait times would be if the graders had to now also analyze magnified scans to determine the accuracy of the recreated artwork.

 

Photo-recognition software is instantaneous.

 

You snap a pic of a known good cover and you compare it to all submissions of, say Tec #33. Software would immediately point out any differences, even if minute.

 

As far as how much variation is allowed? I'd speculate very little should be allowed.

 

Any bets that the machine would be flagging some false positives for whatever reason, even for unrestored originals, since the comic book printing process has never ever been 100% foolproof.

 

The other question is how much more will we now have to pay for slabbing to offset the cost of this machine and the required labour time necessary to run it. Let's also not forget about the additional wait times as we will now have to put every restored comic through a photo recognition verification process.

[MrBedrock]

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Matt is not the only CCS employee.

 

I am well aware of this already.

 

Just thought the bulk of his time would still be spent here since this is really his forte and CCS is really his little baby.

 

Maybe it's no longer up to him since he is now just an employee of a much bigger company, instead of an owner of his own little independent company.

Or maybe he is so good at allocating his time that he is able to skillfully delegate the tasks at CCS while also maintaining a presence at CGC.

[VintageComics]

Any bets that the machine would be flagging some false positives for whatever reason, even for unrestored originals, since the comic book printing process has never ever been 100% foolproof.

 

The other question is how much more will we now have to pay for slabbing to offset the cost of this machine and the required labour time necessary to run it. Let's also not forget about the additional wait times as we will now have to put every restored comic through a photo recognition verification process.

 

CGC was originally scanning books being graded. I believe Voldemart already does. If the books are on a conveyor and already being scanned then it wouldn't take very long. Software is not probably going to be very expensive and is getting cheaper every day. It's already being used everywhere and it's just a matter of time before the average person has it on their cell phones, etc.

 

 

[Flash105]

Reading through this thread I'm looking forward to the day soon, when I purchase facsimiles of pricey books that look near identical to the original to the naked eye, and only cost 10 or 20 bucks apiece. The entire pre-Robin run of Batman in Detective in high grade for a couple hundred dollars or less. Just spritz the air with a little benzene and vinegar when leafing through them, and the Golden Age experience is complete.

 

Maybe the sign that is no longer a restored book is when DC sues for copyright infringement.

[PovertyRow]

From the time that Steve and West were at CGC Chris Friesen has been employed solely to spot resto. Matt Nelson's company was later bought by CGC and his restoration knowledge is at their employ. Two resto experts checking and certifying books.

 

As regards Chris F, he had left CGC and is now back as a "Consultant" but I cannot find anything outlining his responsibilities. Paul L. is currently listed as the Primary Grader and Restoration Detection Specialist. So it is hard to figure out, based on published info, the hierarchy.

 

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Steve definitely knows restoration detection. I have witnessed this many times first hand. I have studied and experimented with restoration since the late 80s living in Boston and spent some time with a leading restorer learning several techniques. I've also developed my own techniques and still try to figure out new ones, especially dealing with image/dot matching. (My background in 4-color printing is helpful.) I've actually been consulted about technique by other restorers. I just never wanted to do it for a living so kept it as purely research and education.

 

Modification and resto techniques are taking bigger leaps and there are going to be periods of time where a new technique may not be immediately detectable for what it is. Take micro-trimming (which is why I said "Modification and resto"). It had been going on undetected for some time and identifying it had to be figured out.

 

The same thing is going to be happening as newer techniques are discovered and used. No one already knows all there is to know. There will always be hitherto unseen processes arising and maybe some out there already that will need new techniques or knowledge to detect. But I would feel comfortable, with restoration at its present known state, with either CGC or CBCS successfully detecting it.

 

Just adding that my experiences are not only in comic books but also movie paper (posters, lobbies and pressbooks).

[PovertyRow]

Out of interest where do people stand on the use of xerox?

 

A xerox/PhotoShopped replacement cover should garner an Incomplete grade in my opinion. I mean, the book is missing the cover.

[burntboy]

A Thoroughly enjoyable read with much to be ingested. Thanks to all who gave their time and expertise...

[lou_fine]

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Matt is not the only CCS employee.

 

I am well aware of this already.

 

Just thought the bulk of his time would still be spent here since this is really his forte and CCS is really his little baby.

 

Maybe it's no longer up to him since he is now just an employee of a much bigger company, instead of an owner of his own little independent company.

 

Or maybe he is so good at allocating his time that he is able to skillfully delegate the tasks at CCS while also maintaining a presence at CGC.

 

Oh, come on now, Richard!

 

You should at least try to be fair to Matt and not downplay his importance to the CCG umbrella of companies.

 

Everybody already knows that he maintains a presence at both facilities during the day in his secret identity as only Matt Nelson. But it's only after hours in his alter ego as Resto Man where he really shows up and shines when he does all of the receiving, resto detection, grading, and shipping duties for CGC; along with his pressing and other restoration work for CCS.

 

Unfortunately, the only nemesis which he has been unable to overcome and defeat after all these long years is the dreaded and confounded Pedigree Book.

 

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

This also begs the other question: If Matt is now assigned to CGC to do all of the resto checking and certification, who is now looking after all of the pressing and other restoration work done by CCS?

 

Matt is not the only CCS employee.

 

I am well aware of this already.

 

Just thought the bulk of his time would still be spent here since this is really his forte and CCS is really his little baby.

 

Maybe it's no longer up to him since he is now just an employee of a much bigger company, instead of an owner of his own little independent company.

 

Or maybe he is so good at allocating his time that he is able to skillfully delegate the tasks at CCS while also maintaining a presence at CGC.

 

Oh, come on now, Richard!

 

You should at least try to be fair to Matt and not downplay his importance to the CCG umbrella of companies.

 

Everybody already knows that he maintains a presence at both facilities during the day in his secret identity as only Matt Nelson. But it's only after hours in his alter ego as Resto Man where he really shows up and shines when he does all of the receiving, resto detection, grading, and shipping duties for CGC; along with his pressing and other restoration work for CCS.

 

Unfortunately, the only nemesis which he has been unable to overcome and defeat after all these long years is the dreaded and confounded Pedigree Book.

 

 

 

He does look good in a pair of tights.

[Aman619]

Talk about jumping the shark!

[*matterus023*]

Out of interest where do people stand on the use of xerox?

 

A xerox/PhotoShopped replacement cover should garner an Incomplete grade in my opinion. I mean, the book is missing the cover.

 

I completley agree but I meant in smaller areas? Would like to know your thoughts as from previous posts you seem to know your stuff. From what I have heard certain restorers have been known to use this technique for areas that may be to tough for them to do by hand. Not naming names as I have only heard from others

 

Thanks

 

 

[VintageComics]

He does look good in a pair of tights.

 

Sounds like I have some competition!

 

[G.A.tor]

Nothing beats Parker in a pink tutu

[PovertyRow]

Out of interest where do people stand on the use of xerox?

 

A xerox/PhotoShopped replacement cover should garner an Incomplete grade in my opinion. I mean, the book is missing the cover.

 

I completley agree but I meant in smaller areas? Would like to know your thoughts as from previous posts you seem to know your stuff. From what I have heard certain restorers have been known to use this technique for areas that may be to tough for them to do by hand. Not naming names as I have only heard from others

 

Thanks

 

 

Basically if you need a Xerox or computer printed piece, you have missing areas. These can be replaced with paper or leaf casting. So then you end up with a nice blank "canvas".

 

Take your Xerox/printout and put it on a light box. Make sure it is the correct size! Put your cover with those blank canvases on top. Get them properly aligned and you now have a good template to insure proper size, shape and placement of the various elements when inpainting.

 

Just using a Xerox/printout and trying to attach that to the blank areas I see as less desirable. Is the Xerox/printout archival? How well does the paper stock, gloss (or lack of gloss depending on the era/publisher) color and color density match the original? Blending in a Xerox would be more problematic than blending in paper stock or leaf casting.

 

I'd rather see the Xerox used as a template as outlined above to insure proper size and placement of the various elements being reproduced. This technique would also help in insuring an even look with other areas, such as color touched areas, sealed areas etc. since the same techniques would be used.

 

Now I haven't forgotten there is an inside to the cover but I'm running late. Must catch the bus!

[*matterus023*]

Out of interest where do people stand on the use of xerox?

 

A xerox/PhotoShopped replacement cover should garner an Incomplete grade in my opinion. I mean, the book is missing the cover.

 

I completley agree but I meant in smaller areas? Would like to know your thoughts as from previous posts you seem to know your stuff. From what I have heard certain restorers have been known to use this technique for areas that may be to tough for them to do by hand. Not naming names as I have only heard from others

 

Thanks

 

 

Basically if you need a Xerox or computer printed piece, you have missing areas. These can be replaced with paper or leaf casting. So then you end up with a nice blank "canvas".

 

Take your Xerox/printout and put it on a light box. Make sure it is the correct size! Put your cover with those blank canvases on top. Get them properly aligned and you now have a good template to insure proper size, shape and placement of the various elements when inpainting.

 

Just using a Xerox/printout and trying to attach that to the blank areas I see as less desirable. Is the Xerox/printout archival? How well does the paper stock, gloss (or lack of gloss depending on the era/publisher) color and color density match the original? Blending in a Xerox would be more problematic than blending in paper stock or leaf casting.

 

I'd rather see the Xerox used as a template as outlined above to insure proper size and placement of the various elements being reproduced. This technique would also help in insuring an even look with other areas, such as color touched areas, sealed areas etc. since the same techniques would be used.

 

Now I haven't forgotten there is an inside to the cover but I'm running late. Must catch the bus!

 

Thanks for the answer. I wouldn't like the use of xerox at all. How easy looking though a slabbed case would it be to spot?