There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

[PovertyRow]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

[Mmehdy]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

 

 

Great... I am glad that you have been collecting for 35 years, if you are a professional restorer, that is even better..

 

However, that is not the point here...if you believe that the existence of two companies in a gradually declining collector base are here for the long run...it is you who are making predictions also and I can respect that. Who really knows anything absolutely....only CGC and the other guy know everything and they do not know the future.

 

Based upon your 35 years of experience, let me ask, if I may, YOU a few questions>

 

1- With regard to recreating a comic book thru restoration at what point would you define it not to be a original comic book...

 

2- Has the restoration limit been passed in your opinion with the new current restorations taking place including recreating cover art or adding lines on books, and if not where would your limit be given the new restoration being done today.

 

3- In your opinion, should there be a special Holder or Grade for a book that has been...well OVER restored?

 

thanks in advance, Mitch

 

 

[PovertyRow]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

 

 

Great... I am glad that you have been collecting for 35 years, if you are a professional restorer, that is even better..

 

However, that is not the point here...if you believe that the existence of two companies in a gradually declining collector base are here for the long run...it is you who are making predictions also and I can respect that. Who really knows anything absolutely....only CGC and the other guy know everything and they do not know the future.

 

Based upon your 35 years of experience, let me ask, if I may, YOU a few questions>

 

1- With regard to recreating a comic book thru restoration at what point would you define it not to be a original comic book...

 

2- Has that limit been passed in your opinion with the new current restorations taking place including recreating cover art or adding lines on books, and if not where would your limit be?

 

3- In your opinion, should there be a special Holder or Grade for a book that has been...well OVER restored?

 

thanks in advance, Mitch

 

 

First off, Mitch. I have made zero predictions on any company as far as their duration goes. I have only been questioning some opinions that were presented as facts.

 

To answer your questions as honestly as possible (and I say that because one or two answers may sound sarcastic but they are not):

 

1) I would define ANY comic book that has restoration to not be an original comic book. Plain and simple.

 

2) I actually expressed my opinion about the uber-restored book here when I said it " goes beyond restoration and definitely hits recreation. And should bring less than its pre-recreated self."

 

3) I do not believe an "over restored" book should be in a special holder for one simple reason: we are now entering the world of opinion in regards to what is over-restored. I feel the Tec in question is Over-restored, as I said. But others do not. So in this "market" it is up to the individual to make the call on whether to pull the trigger on a book. Now I WOULD agree with something beyond Extensive . Perhaps "Significant" or "Major" or just some term to indicate the next level. And fuller disclosure on what was actually done.

 

Oh - I am not a professional restorer and have taken pains to say I am NOT a pro restorer. I have, however, studied restoration extensively for many years. Both in comics and movie posters.

[Mmehdy]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

 

 

Great... I am glad that you have been collecting for 35 years, if you are a professional restorer, that is even better..

 

However, that is not the point here...if you believe that the existence of two companies in a gradually declining collector base are here for the long run...it is you who are making predictions also and I can respect that. Who really knows anything absolutely....only CGC and the other guy know everything and they do not know the future.

 

Based upon your 35 years of experience, let me ask, if I may, YOU a few questions>

 

1- With regard to recreating a comic book thru restoration at what point would you define it not to be a original comic book...

 

2- Has that limit been passed in your opinion with the new current restorations taking place including recreating cover art or adding lines on books, and if not where would your limit be?

 

3- In your opinion, should there be a special Holder or Grade for a book that has been...well OVER restored?

 

thanks in advance, Mitch

 

 

First off, Mitch. I have made zero predictions on any company as far as their duration goes. I have only been questioning some opinions that were presented as facts.

 

To answer your questions as honestly as possible (and I say that because one or two answers may sound sarcastic but they are not):

 

1) I would define ANY comic book that has restoration to not be an original comic book. Plain and simple.

 

2) I actually expressed my opinion about the uber-restored book here when I said it " goes beyond restoration and definitely hits recreation. And should bring less than its pre-recreated self."

 

3) I do not believe an "over restored" book should be in a special holder for one simple reason: we are now entering the world of opinion in regards to what is over-restored. I feel the Tec in question is Over-restored, as I said. But others do not. So in this "market" it is up to the individual to make the call on whether to pull the trigger on a book. Now I WOULD agree with something beyond Extensive . Perhaps "Significant" or "Major" or just some term to indicate the next level. And fuller disclosure on what was actually done.

 

1- I agree 100%, even pressing the books make it unrestored in my opinion

 

2- I agree less value here but on a sliding scale...more resto less value...

 

3- describing fully in detail on the work on the book would be a improvement, I am just worried about the "market"..yes it will correct with a lot of pain and a number of collectors exiting unhappy with a non-full recovery of what they paid, let alone auction house fees and shipping costs which will be deducted if you want a world wide market to sell your book too. I think CGC needs to act fast...and set some type of limit on the amount of resto a book may contain..with the penalty that it will not be graded by the company . They need to post the standards to not be accused of the "in house resto" argument. I believe they have tried to do this...but some standard needs to be set and followed in stone for RESTORED comics to retain their investment value asap.

 

4-thanks for the answers

 

[PovertyRow]

Thanks too, Mitch. It is nice to have civil arguments!

[lou_fine]

2-When a new trend or new way to make money...legally or according to the grade company acceptability...a new market emerges...today its one new company...turning out high grade...well...restored books if you want to call them that....the word is gonna get out...and every tom, and harry....is going copy...as long as there is big money to made.....

 

Mitch;

 

Do you really think there is big money to be made here with these extra EP restored books?

 

Based upon the way that I see it, I don't believe there is. As the Meyers have already stated, they currently don't have any clients for this type of restoration work which they are doing. The only way they are making money on it is that they are doing it on their own time. As Emma has already stated, if it takes 100+ hours to restore the book to the level that they want, they are willing to do it. Now, if you was a client, imagine how much you would have to pay a professional restorer to put in 100+ hours to work on your book.

 

In addition, these restored books are clearly being designated as EP restored and nobody is hiding the fact that they have been extra extensively worked on. Since there is relatively full disclosure with these UHG restored books, unlike the UHG "unrestored" books, this means that any potential buyers would be able to make a more fully informed purchasing decision, including whether or not they even want this type of book in their collection.

 

No doubt this disclosure has a dampening and negative effect on the eventual prices of these books. Based upon results so far, there does not appear to be a significant premium, if any at all, being paid for these books as they are only fetching around 10% or so of what an unrestored copy in the same grade would be going for. This is no better than what the tradition EP restored books have historically gone for.

 

Are you aware of any collectors knocking on the Meyer's door to get this type of work done? Doesn't appear to be a lot of money to be made from this strategy if you have to pay for the full blown restoration work that would be required. After all, we are not talking about an undisclosed 15 minute press job whereby you can make thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars on a so-called UHG "unrestored" book.

[Mmehdy]

 

 

There are a number of the coming up on CC..we shall see, I know one dealer who will possibly be contacting them for resto.

[lou_fine]

 

2) How much of "just to pay the bills" do you think is handled by a few uber-resto books in comparison to the large number of regular submissions? Or to put it another way:

 

3) What percentage of CBCS's income comes from these uber-restored books?

 

 

 

3- The more Uber-restored books...the higher % income they will become, it would be my prediction the submissions for 2016 will increase over 2015.

 

 

Mitch;

 

Based upon the rationale from my previous post above, I believe the percentage of CBCS's income that will be coming from grading these uber-restored books will be infinitesimal and not even register on their top and bottom line.

 

Nothing to see here at all.

[lou_fine]

 

There are a number of the coming up on CC..we shall see, I know one dealer who will possibly be contacting them for resto.

 

And probably running as fast and as far away from the Meyers as he can once he hears the number of hours and total dollars it's going to cost him to max out the grade on the restored book.

 

There's infinitely faster, easier, and more money to be made from just pressing your books and then selling them as unrestored.

[bluechip]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

 

 

Great... I am glad that you have been collecting for 35 years, if you are a professional restorer, that is even better..

 

However, that is not the point here...if you believe that the existence of two companies in a gradually declining collector base are here for the long run...it is you who are making predictions also and I can respect that. Who really knows anything absolutely....only CGC and the other guy know everything and they do not know the future.

 

Based upon your 35 years of experience, let me ask, if I may, YOU a few questions>

 

1- With regard to recreating a comic book thru restoration at what point would you define it not to be a original comic book...

 

2- Has that limit been passed in your opinion with the new current restorations taking place including recreating cover art or adding lines on books, and if not where would your limit be?

 

3- In your opinion, should there be a special Holder or Grade for a book that has been...well OVER restored?

 

thanks in advance, Mitch

 

 

First off, Mitch. I have made zero predictions on any company as far as their duration goes. I have only been questioning some opinions that were presented as facts.

 

To answer your questions as honestly as possible (and I say that because one or two answers may sound sarcastic but they are not):

 

1) I would define ANY comic book that has restoration to not be an original comic book. Plain and simple.

 

2) I actually expressed my opinion about the uber-restored book here when I said it " goes beyond restoration and definitely hits recreation. And should bring less than its pre-recreated self."

 

3) I do not believe an "over restored" book should be in a special holder for one simple reason: we are now entering the world of opinion in regards to what is over-restored. I feel the Tec in question is Over-restored, as I said. But others do not. So in this "market" it is up to the individual to make the call on whether to pull the trigger on a book. Now I WOULD agree with something beyond Extensive . Perhaps "Significant" or "Major" or just some term to indicate the next level. And fuller disclosure on what was actually done.

 

1- I agree 100%, even pressing the books make it unrestored in my opinion

 

2- I agree less value here but on a sliding scale...more resto less value...

 

3- describing fully in detail on the work on the book would be a improvement, I am just worried about the "market"..yes it will correct with a lot of pain and a number of collectors exiting unhappy with a non-full recovery of what they paid, let alone auction house fees and shipping costs which will be deducted if you want a world wide market to sell your book too. I think CGC needs to act fast...and set some type of limit on the amount of resto a book may contain..with the penalty that it will not be graded by the company . They need to post the standards to not be accused of the "in house resto" argument. I believe they have tried to do this...but some standard needs to be set and followed in stone for RESTORED comics to retain their investment value asap.

 

4-thanks for the answers

 

How about a standard of just simply spelling out in detail (and in pictures) everything that has or hasn't been done to a book?

 

Why is that so difficult? Why so much resistance to that very basic idea?

 

Why is that detailed descriptions and pictures are considered less desirable than using terms that make every restored book sound exactly like every other restored book and effectively hiding the details that would differentiate them, in favor of a subjective, unexplained (and unavoidably inconsistent) formula that determines one book as "good" or "acceptable" and another as "bad" or "unacceptable"

 

 

 

[jimjum12]

 

I understand your position but you need to take into account age and experience

 

Umm, Mitch - you were 18 years old in 1973. I was 23 years old in 1973. So age is on my side. You've been collecting longer but I still have 35 years in, and am certainly familiar with the names in your story. I also feel 35 years is certainly sufficient to have a valid opinion based on experience and experiences.

 

As ultimately demonstrated back in 2011 when you first arrived here, I have more restoration knowledge and experience than you. (I also have years of 4-color printing experience).

 

There is a cool story about a musician in a village who refused to teach an eager student. The student went to study in another village and, upon returning 20 years later, came upon the first musician and realized that musician was playing the same songs and making the same mistakes.

 

Simply how long one has been collecting does not give built-in authority. Now we have never met and rarely talk but you have formed an opinion about me based on I am not sure what.

 

 

Great... I am glad that you have been collecting for 35 years, if you are a professional restorer, that is even better..

 

However, that is not the point here...if you believe that the existence of two companies in a gradually declining collector base are here for the long run...it is you who are making predictions also and I can respect that. Who really knows anything absolutely....only CGC and the other guy know everything and they do not know the future.

 

Based upon your 35 years of experience, let me ask, if I may, YOU a few questions>

 

1- With regard to recreating a comic book thru restoration at what point would you define it not to be a original comic book...

 

2- Has that limit been passed in your opinion with the new current restorations taking place including recreating cover art or adding lines on books, and if not where would your limit be?

 

3- In your opinion, should there be a special Holder or Grade for a book that has been...well OVER restored?

 

thanks in advance, Mitch

 

 

First off, Mitch. I have made zero predictions on any company as far as their duration goes. I have only been questioning some opinions that were presented as facts.

 

To answer your questions as honestly as possible (and I say that because one or two answers may sound sarcastic but they are not):

 

1) I would define ANY comic book that has restoration to not be an original comic book. Plain and simple.

 

2) I actually expressed my opinion about the uber-restored book here when I said it " goes beyond restoration and definitely hits recreation. And should bring less than its pre-recreated self."

 

3) I do not believe an "over restored" book should be in a special holder for one simple reason: we are now entering the world of opinion in regards to what is over-restored. I feel the Tec in question is Over-restored, as I said. But others do not. So in this "market" it is up to the individual to make the call on whether to pull the trigger on a book. Now I WOULD agree with something beyond Extensive . Perhaps "Significant" or "Major" or just some term to indicate the next level. And fuller disclosure on what was actually done.

 

1- I agree 100%, even pressing the books make it unrestored in my opinion

 

2- I agree less value here but on a sliding scale...more resto less value...

 

3- describing fully in detail on the work on the book would be a improvement, I am just worried about the "market"..yes it will correct with a lot of pain and a number of collectors exiting unhappy with a non-full recovery of what they paid, let alone auction house fees and shipping costs which will be deducted if you want a world wide market to sell your book too. I think CGC needs to act fast...and set some type of limit on the amount of resto a book may contain..with the penalty that it will not be graded by the company . They need to post the standards to not be accused of the "in house resto" argument. I believe they have tried to do this...but some standard needs to be set and followed in stone for RESTORED comics to retain their investment value asap.

 

4-thanks for the answers

 

How about a standard of just simply spelling out in detail (and in pictures) everything that has or hasn't been done to a book?

 

Why is that so difficult? Why so much resistance to that very basic idea?

 

Why is that detailed descriptions and pictures are considered less desirable than using terms that make every restored book sound exactly like every other restored book and effectively hiding the details that would differentiate them, in favor of a subjective, unexplained (and unavoidably inconsistent) formula that determines one book as "good" or "acceptable" and another as "bad" or "unacceptable"

 

 

 

Matt Nelson used to include a very nice and detailed certificate that provided all that information...... also "before" pictures. To be honest, I've only purchased a few restored books in my life, and this one was a Batman 11 with moderate work that took it from a 3.0 to an apparent 7.0..... it was beautiful and still felt like a real comic..... I was very impressed. Until then, I took the "scarlet letter" approach to restored books, having seen only stiff Frankenbooks previously. I am more open minded now. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[ComicConnoisseur]

With new technology tools upcoming.Something, maybe should be done to keep a public record of what books have had work done to them.From smallest detail to extreme.

I think we are at the tip of the iceberg. Imagine in ten years what kind of restoration will be done?

Kind of like how they now can take old Universal monsters movies and make them seem brand new with 4K film transfers on Blu-ray.

The restorer tools will only get better!

[batman_fan]

This is what I got when I had my batman 1 restored.

 

[jimjum12]

This is what I got when I had my batman 1 restored.

 

 

.... Matt ? ............GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[batman_fan]

Tracey

[1950's war comics]

With new technology tools upcoming something, maybe should be done to keep a public record of what books have had work done to them.From smallest detail to extreme.

I think we are at the tip of the iceberg. Imagine in ten years what kind of restoration will be done?

Kind of like how they now can take old Universal monsters movies and make them seem brand new with 4K film transfers on Blu-ray.

The restorer tools will only get better!

 

Just what I believe too,.. and just imagine when the Chinese find out ....

with their manpower and technology. sweat shops workers over there could buy reader copies and crank out 9.8 by the bushel basket

[kinzebac]

Tracey

 

I've used Tracey too. He, like Matt Nelson, sends a detailed description of the work done. Nice Bats 1 by the way.

[Gotham Kid]

This is what I got when I had my batman 1 restored.

 

 

That is why you should sell it to me

[Mr. 10%]

This is what I got when I had my batman 1 restored.

 

 

That is why you should sell it to me

 

Was it universal before you had the work done?

[woowoo]

There are no more fresh keys out there small %. The thing going on now is the keys are getting restored over and over and over. No way to have detail on a book that was restored 35 years ago and being redone today. I to hade my Action 10 restored around 2000 Matt did detail it all.