STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[fantastic_four]

8 hours ago, joeypost said:

Has anyone addressed their disappointment in how easily Snoke was taken out?

You mean like THIS easily?  

In other words, I'd describe his death as about ten times more satisfying than that of the Emperor, Vader, or Luke.  So suddenly the Emperor has lost his ability to move himself around with the Force and Vader dies after a half-second of stray Force lightning?  

[fantastic_four]

8 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

WHY KILL SNOKE OFF WITHOUT GIVING US ANY BACKSTORY! 

Lucas killed the Emperor with so little back-story that we didn't even know his name.  We knew far more about Snoke than Palpatine circa Return of the Jedi.

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, bane said:

My in-depth thoughts after letting it sink in, reading reviews and talking with others.

I will also preface this review by saying I’m not a diehard Star Wars fan, I’ve enjoyed the movies but I know nothing of the EU, never read any books or watched all the animated stuff. For me I just want to see a well written movie with characters I can care about and a coherent storyline.

So #nerdrage annoys me and doesn’t apply here.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Good:
Luke Skywalker & Rey’s storyline, their interaction is really good. I liked the themes brought up when he begins training her that she was drawn straight to the darkside and she didn’t fight it but that’s because she’s looking for answers. Luke’s aghast and gives her the speech. But ultimately the rest of the island stuff was filler, milking some strange walrus, fishing with a 100ft pole, yawn.
 
The space battle was good and unexpected right at the start, I liked Poe Dameron more in this but I hated General Hux, I hated the start of this, come on Rian Johnson is not James Gunn and this isn’t Guardians of the Galaxy

Kylo Ren, I thought he was sooo much better in this movie then TFA, more fleshed out, more to do and I thought his chemistry with Rey was really good. He spends most of the film without the mask and to be honest it didn’t bother me as much as I thought it would.

The fight with against the red guys at the end with Ren & Rey was awesome.

Luke Skywalker astral projecting himself across the galaxy, unexpected twist, a ballsy move and very surprising but ultimately disappointing that I’m not going to see Luke go full Jedi on everyone light sabre and all. Its like he couldn’t be bothered to dredge his X-Wing out of the ocean instead he face timed the battle.

Yoda’s appearance (before he does anything). Great to see him but I ultimately didn’t like what he did.

The Bad and the Ugly
The laborious over arcing storyline of the Resistance being chased by the First Order, how boring and dumb is this! Why didn’t the First Order just jump to light speed in front of the resistance to catch up to them and destroy them. It was just the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Also the Tie Fighters cannot stray to far from the star destroyer?? Come on, how far was that Tie Fighter away from the Death Star in a New Hope! For anyone who has seen the reimagined Battlestar Galactica will recall the first (proper episode) titled “33”, where the surviving humans are being chased by the Cylons and have to jump every 33 minutes as they are continually hounded/tracked, it was filled with tension, great moments and acting conveying tight emotions. Rian Johnson must have watched this and thought how can I strip out the tension and pad it out to 2 hours.

Superman Leia, this scene is both good and stupid, so Leia uses the force to coat herself in a bubble and then flies through space to the hatch which doesn’t blow everyone out of it when it opens in a vaccum. Star Wars was never this stupid. 

The slapstick Marvel humour, some funny moments in the film but too much of it was shoe horned in and wasn’t funny at all. 

Finn’s love interest and the unnecessary subplot of having to go to this casino just to flesh out these two characters to setup for their ending. Benicio Del Toro was also unneeded and pretty forgettable. The whole Casino scene was an utter snoozefest. Benicio Del Toro mumbles his way through another role.

SNOKE!!!!! WHAT THE F**K! The most powerful force user since the Palapatine was too blind to see his own student stab him! And that’s it, the most interesting character in the new Star Wars universe bumped off before we find out anything about him, not even that but we’re stuck with Kylo wanting rule the galaxy.
 
General Hux reduced to a bumbling comedic character, I wish he was dead by the end of it.

I was fine with the whole astral projection, very clever but not with him dying afterwards! I would expect Luke to be in the next one where we see him in battle in person, “see you round kid” but only as a force ghost, pfft.

Laura Dern’s character, how long does she stand and watch the transport ships being destroyed before she finally FINALLY thinks, erm I best do something about this and turns the Cruiser around. I admit that scene looked great when it finally happened.

I’m with Artboy on preferring to see Finn sacrifice himself and give some much-needed weight to this movie but no he was saved by his stupid love interest who I care nothing for.

So much wasted opportunities in this movie

I don’t think the new characters are good enough to drive this story forward imo, I definitely will not be throwing money at episode 9.

No repeat viewings either that’s for sure.

5/10 – only saved by some cool moments and Mark Hamill who was great as older Luke Skywalker.

Don’t head to the theatres, save your money and watch it on Netflix (before Disney launches its own stream service).

 

I miss the SYFY Battlestar Galactica show. That was solid storytelling and character buildout.

[Gatsby77]

43 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Lucas killed the Emperor with so little back-story that we didn't even know his name.  We knew far more about Snoke than Palpatine circa Return of the Jedi.

Thank you.

Why is everybody griping about how we don't learn Snoke's backstory?

We knew jack about the Emperor from his what -- 10 seconds in Empire and 12 minutes in Jedi.

[Bosco685]

45 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

You mean like THIS easily?  

In other words, I'd describe his death as about ten times more satisfying than that of the Emperor, Vader, or Luke.  So suddenly the Emperor has lost his ability to move himself around with the Force and Vader dies after a half-second of stray Force lightning?  

Didn't the prequels address the origin of the Emperor afterwards?

And at least the Emperor is covered in all three movies leading up to his death. I always took the final scene as the Emperor was so fixated on finally having Luke in his grasp, he had a feeling of immense power because the one threat he feared was at his mercy. So he let his guard down to his real most powerful threat - Vader.

[fantastic_four]

12 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Didn't the prequels address the origin of the Emperor afterwards?

And at least the Emperor is covered in all three movies leading up to his death. I always took the final scene as the Emperor was so fixated on finally having Luke in his grasp, he had a feeling of immense power because the one threat he feared was at his mercy. So he let his guard down to his real most powerful threat - Vader.

Yes, and Disney is free to do the same with Snoke for that 30+ year period between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens.  It seems somewhat likely that the whole Snoke back-story along with Kylo being a part of the Knights of Ren is stuff being saved for a Kylo Ren spin-off back-story film.

OK, so he let his guard down and let Vader grab him--that's TOTALLY understandable that he wasn't sure Vader would turn on him in that instant.  What about alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way down that shaft?  He was like "who wha Luke Luke Luke what what what" and couldn't manage any of the Force acrobatics he demonstrated in the prequels?

And what's with Vader dying so easily?  I get that maybe he's extra-vulnerable to Force lightning due to the electronics in his life-support suit, but he has no backup suit?  When that scene was playing out with Luke I thought he'd say "get me to my chambers so I can get a new suit," but nope, look, he's dead, HUH, how'd that happen?  

Edited December 19, 2017 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

OK, so he let his guard down and let Vader grab him--that's TOTALLY understandable that he wasn't sure Vader would turn on him in that instant.  What about alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way down that shaft?  He was like "who wha Luke Luke Luke what what what" and couldn't manage any of the Force acrobatics he demonstrated in the prequels?

Vader snapped his back when lifting him up and throwing him down?!

It looks like it has been a hot topic for a long time. And with some answers provided that seem to make sense.

If the emperor was all powerful then why could vader kill him so easily?

Quote

Several reasons: First, the Sith seem to generally have less control over their force powers than the Jedi, relying more on raw power than precision. As a result, when Darth Vader attacks the Emperor, the Emperor sprays wildly and is never able to refocus his lightening attack on Vader the way it was focused on Luke.

 

More specifically, Vader had Jedi powers at one point before he turned to the Dark Side. We know from Yoda's example in the duel with Dooko that a sufficiently powerful Jedi can absorb and redirect the lightening attack. Whether the latent good Luke senses correlates at all with the latent ability to use the light side force powers is unknown. However, it is known that Anakin was a singularly powerful user of the force and if limited cross-morality use of that power is possible, then he would be the one who could pull it off.

 

Technologically, Vader was basically a man-shaped tank built by the same civilization who brought you the Death Star. Their lack of design foresight aside, it is reasonable to assume that they probably put in a surge protector.

 

Finally, the Emperor himself was never really the most powerful of the Sith, that was always supposed to be Anakin. Granted, the Sith Lord was an exceptional liar and manipulator, but he lost badly to Windu and barely fought Yoda to a draw, and neither of them were The Child of Prophecy. We don't know to what extent Anakin's conversion into Vader may have diminished his force powers, but the starting premise that the Emperor is "all powerful" seems dubious at best from what we can gather from the circumstances surrounding his rise to power.

I think the way it was handled in The Last Jedi was so simple, it felt anti-climatic handing the Supreme Leader a lightsaber so then when he sits it down next to him someone uses their power to turn it on and cut him in half. Much more simple than the Emperor having utilized so much of his power to take down Luke while distracted, he is attacked by someone as powerful as Vader.

[fantastic_four]

Both deaths were kinda lame, but the Emperor's was much lamer--possibly the lamest in the entire series, although my snap feeling about Luke's death is that it was even lamer, but I may decide differently later once I have time to figure out whatever reason it happened in the first place.  And Vader's maiming by Obi-Wan was about fifty million times cooler than his eventual death.

[Bosco685]

24 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Both deaths were kinda lame, but the Emperor's was much lamer--possibly the lamest in the entire series, although my snap feeling about Luke's death is that it was even lamer, but I may decide differently later once I have time to figure out whatever reason it happened in the first place.  And Vader's maiming by Obi-Wan was about fifty million times cooler than his eventual death.

Totally understand on the differing expectations.

But it does feel like rushed storytelling something as simple as a device placed next to someone leading to their death as not much thought. Other than getting to the finish.

[WolverineX]

Should we sign up and show our support?

 

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

Edited December 19, 2017 by Wolverinex

[fantastic_four]

10 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

But it does feel like rushed storytelling something as simple as a device placed next to someone leading to their death as not much thought. Other than getting to the finish.

A defense of it I heard on Reddit is that if we wait until the end to off Snoke then it's a complete re-hash of the original series where Vader offs the Emperor at the end.  Here Johnson gets Snoke out of the way earlier, which means we get to see Kylo Ren in control of the Empire First Order for the rest of this film and presumably the next one, something we never saw Vader do.

[I like pie]

4 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

Should we sign up and show our support?

 

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon

[Antpark]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

A defense of it I heard on Reddit is that if we wait until the end to off Snoke then it's a complete re-hash of the original series where Vader offs the Emperor at the end.  Here Johnson gets Snoke out of the way earlier, which means we get to see Kylo Ren in control of the Empire First Order for the rest of this film and presumably the next one, something we never saw Vader do.

I'd really like to see Kylo Ren go full villain in the next one. Maybe with the loss of his remaining father figures/mentors, he goes full on dark side. Up to now, I felt as though he's been sort of dark side "lite". Like "dusk" or "twilight" instead of totally dark. If he's going to be the antagonist of the story now, I want a reason for the Galaxy to fear him. Everyone feared the Emperor and especially Darth Vader. Right now, I don't necessarily fear Ren as much as I feel sorry for him.  

They don't even need to make him power hungry or insane either. Something like a misguided sense of Peace, Law & (First) Order. "Pax Romana was achieved only after the Republic was conquered" kind of thinking. 

[Artboy99]

2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

A defense of it I heard on Reddit is that if we wait until the end to off Snoke then it's a complete re-hash of the original series where Vader offs the Emperor at the end.  Here Johnson gets Snoke out of the way earlier, which means we get to see Kylo Ren in control of the Empire First Order for the rest of this film and presumably the next one, something we never saw Vader do.

I strongly dislike how Snoke was killed. Was very much a "look over there" and then striking move.

Kylo Ren - Hey Snoke! Watch me with what I am doing with Rey, and with the force I will control that lightsaber beside you and cut you in half! What? You as the supreme Sith Lord can't tell I am using the force to manipulate that lightsaber? How convenient. UGH, such terrible writing.

[comicwiz]

3 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I strongly dislike how Snoke was killed. Was very much a "look over there" and then striking move.

Kylo Ren - Hey Snoke! Watch me with what I am doing with Rey, and with the force I will control that lightsaber beside you and cut you in half! What? You as the supreme Sith Lord can't tell I am using the force to manipulate that lightsaber? How convenient. UGH, such terrible writing.

Using the lens of analysis, you could argue it was the same smokescreen Ren used to make Snoke believe he was conflicted that led to the use of a slight of hand trick that led to Snoke's demise. Snoke was so sure he could be the puppeteer, but became the split pea puppet.

[Gatsby77]

10 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

Using the lens of analysis, you could argue it was the same smokescreen Ren used to make Snoke believe he was conflicted that led to the use of a slight of hand trick that led to Snoke's demise. Snoke was so sure he could be the puppeteer, but became the split pea puppet.

Exactly.

If anything, it showed that the pupil had surpassed his master, establishing Kylo as stronger and more formidable than Snoke -- who was so confident in his dominance he wasn't prepared for a subtle mental attack blocking him from seeing his impending death.

And -- as pointed out above -- it was a more logical death than the Emperor's.

[Artboy99]

30 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

Using the lens of analysis, you could argue it was the same smokescreen Ren used to make Snoke believe he was conflicted that led to the use of a slight of hand trick that led to Snoke's demise. Snoke was so sure he could be the puppeteer, but became the split pea puppet.

Perhaps. I choose to think Snoke wanted to be killed so that he can move to Force Ghost level 8.

[comicwiz]

One other point, and this pertains more to the "list" that's floating out there of how RJ stuck it to fans. Particularly the scene where Ren smashes his mask - to me that is not an affront to fans, but a well emphasized point of no turning back for Ren. Ren's faithful adherenece to Snoke had just been made a mockery. Him smashing the mask revealed (at least to me) he was done with Snoke. Kylo Ren, student of Snoke, was no more. Snoke's demise was imminent.

Edited December 19, 2017 by comicwiz

[Artboy99]

18 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Exactly.

If anything, it showed that the pupil had surpassed his master, establishing Kylo as stronger and more formidable than Snoke -- who was so confident in his dominance he wasn't prepared for a subtle mental attack blocking him from seeing his impending death.

And -- as pointed out above -- it was a more logical death than the Emperor's.

I don't think any of it makes sense.

[Artboy99]

3 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

One other point, and this pertains more to the "list" of how RJ stuck it to fans. Particularly the scene where Ren smashes his mask - to me that is not an affront to fans, but a well emphasized point of no turning back for Ren. Ren's faithful adherenece to Snoke had just been made a mockery. Him smashing the mask revealed (at least to me) he was done with Snoke. There was no Kylo Ren, student of Snoke. Snoke's demise was imminent.

see if it is that then cool!

Unfortunately I think he could do that while still wearing the very cool looking helmet. So to me the smashing of the helmet is done so that we get to see the actor's face/ head ala Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man 3 (In the contract. )