Cat-Man_America Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Very informative thread. On the flip side does anyone know the last WWII cover? My Marvel Mystery 66 states last war cover of series on the slab. Any others date later from other publishers? Don't own this copy anymore, but Black Terror #12 should qualify as last or one of the last... And before anyone asks, yes, I do miss this book. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It's not a Nazi cover, but it does contain the first Superman vs. Hitler (and Stalin!) story: Dated Feb 27, 1940...may have been on the stands a little later than MMC #4. Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 January 1940 Just to clarify, is this still the winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 January 1940 Just to clarify, is this still the winner? Depends, I guess. on whether you think the cover of MMC2 is meant to depict German bombers. If so, then that's the first. If not, then Top Notch 2 is the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 January 1940 Just to clarify, is this still the winner? Depends, I guess. on whether you think the cover of MMC2 is meant to depict German bombers. If so, then that's the first. If not, then Top Notch 2 is the winner. It might be meant to, but they whimped out. In my mind, Top-Notch 2 is the winner. Kinda makes me want to look for a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It is surprising to me, considering the times, that there wasn't any Nazi symbolism in comics prior to late 1939. The Nazis had been running Germany since 1933, and had already gobbled up Austria, Czechoslovakia, and were in the process of expanding even further. And of course, the swastika predates Nazi use by thousands of years. I suppose an unwillingness to face reality, especially by a generation for which WWI was still fresh, may have led many to just pretend Europe's problems were Europe's problems. Still...especially in light of the obviously anti-Semitic policies of the regime, and the heavy presence of Jews in the comics publishing business of the 1930's (Eisner, Gaines, Goodman, Siegel, Shuster, and Donenfeld)...it's surprising that it took them that long to address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpb Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It is surprising to me, considering the times, that there wasn't any Nazi symbolism in comics prior to late 1939. The Nazis had been running Germany since 1933, and had already gobbled up Austria, Czechoslovakia, and were in the process of expanding even further. And of course, the swastika predates Nazi use by thousands of years. I suppose an unwillingness to face reality, especially by a generation for which WWI was still fresh, may have led many to just pretend Europe's problems were Europe's problems. Still...especially in light of the obviously anti-Semitic policies of the regime, and the heavy presence of Jews in the comics publishing business of the 1930's (Eisner, Gaines, Goodman, Siegel, Shuster, and Donenfeld)...it's surprising that it took them that long to address it. There weren't that many hero comics with earlier cover dates, and the few with war covers tended to use imaginary dictators and armies in the stories. I can't recall any pre 1940 pulps with Nazi villains, or Communist ones for that matter, and while both ideologies had their apologists in the 1930s, they were also seen as equal menaces by many. I don't think popular culture was that interested in wading into geopolitical specifics until the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 January 1940 Just to clarify, is this still the winner? Depends, I guess. on whether you think the cover of MMC2 is meant to depict German bombers. If so, then that's the first. If not, then Top Notch 2 is the winner. It might be meant to, but they whimped out. In my mind, Top-Notch 2 is the winner. Kinda makes me want to look for a copy. Nah, you've just been mesmerized by the man with the super brain. MM #2 is still the ...uh, ...top notch book. No wimping out as I see it. The Angel took his fight directly to the nazis even though they disguised their planes. That said, MLJ's Top-Notch is still a hypnotic title and one of the earliest to take on the 3rd Reich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I LOVE pre war anti axis comic covers, so thanks for the topic! I wish they put the for sale dates on the cgc labels >< I usually find my dates from mike's amazing world of comics newsstand Top-Notch #2 hit newsstands November 1st 1939. CGC designates it the first Swastica on the label. (not my book, but I wish it was!) Amazing man #9 came out December 13th 1939 I wish cgc would label it the 2nd swastika cover. I always thought Marvel Mystery #2 was the second swastika in comics, but looks like it's 3rd. At least it's the first nazi flag, and first Timely comics swastika. I wish I had a nicer copy, but even in this grade it was pretty pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I LOVE pre war anti axis comic covers, so thanks for the topic! I wish they put the for sale dates on the cgc labels >< I usually find my dates from mike's amazing world of comics newsstand Top-Notch #2 hit newsstands November 1st 1939. CGC designates it the first Swastica on the label. (not my book, but I wish it was!) Amazing man #9 came out December 13th 1939 I wish cgc would label it the 2nd swastika cover. I always thought Marvel Mystery #2 was the second swastika in comics, but looks like it's 3rd. At least it's the first nazi flag, and first Timely comics swastika. I wish I had a nicer copy, but even in this grade it was pretty pricey. Marvel Mystery #2 featuring The Angel in a wartime cover hit the newsstands on Oct. 13th, 1939. To my knowledge this is the very first anti-nazi cover featuring a costumed hero (regardless of the technically inaccurate swastika insignia on the rudder of one bomber). This is not only born out by the cover, but also by the Angel's text story, so the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible. One would hope that future labels might incorporate such information for those collectors interested in historical details. My (for raised interest rate) [font:Times New Roman]Note: Through the magic of Photobucket editing I've removed any vestige of Lord Voldemort's incriminating label for those who may be sensitive to such things. [/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 One additional bit of evidence exists in the published cover art that the aircraft are in fact nazi. Under the closest wing, cut off by the MM banner, there is a detail which might've eluded most observers. German war planes of the era bore outlined black crosses (another nazi symbol) on the upper and lower wings and usually on the body of aircraft. If you look closely this appears to have been part of the original inked illustration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I LOVE pre war anti axis comic covers, so thanks for the topic! I wish they put the for sale dates on the cgc labels >< I usually find my dates from mike's amazing world of comics newsstand Top-Notch #2 hit newsstands November 1st 1939. CGC designates it the first Swastica on the label. (not my book, but I wish it was!) Amazing man #9 came out December 13th 1939 I wish cgc would label it the 2nd swastika cover. I always thought Marvel Mystery #2 was the second swastika in comics, but looks like it's 3rd. At least it's the first nazi flag, and first Timely comics swastika. I wish I had a nicer copy, but even in this grade it was pretty pricey. Marvel Mystery #2 featuring The Angel in a wartime cover hit the newsstands on Oct. 13th, 1939. To my knowledge this is the very first anti-nazi cover featuring a costumed hero (regardless of the technically inaccurate swastika insignia on the rudder of one bomber). This is not only born out by the cover, but also by the Angel's text story, so the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible. One would hope that future labels might incorporate such information for those collectors interested in historical details. My (for raised interest rate) [font:Times New Roman]Note: Through the magic of Photobucket editing I've removed any vestige of Lord Voldemort's incriminating label for those who may be sensitive to such things. [/font] Sorry, Cat, I'm not buying it. This thread, and the CGC label designation, refer to the cover only, not an interior text story. Of course those are Germans on the cover of MM2, but they muddied the waters with the altered imagery. I think Top-Notch 2 retains the crown. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacentaur Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Top Notch #2 is indeed the first Nazi cover - Marvel Mystery #2 may be alluding to Nazis, but they are not designated as such (again, we're talking about the cover) so it's out. Overstreet and CGC have it right. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I LOVE pre war anti axis comic covers, so thanks for the topic! I wish they put the for sale dates on the cgc labels >< I usually find my dates from mike's amazing world of comics newsstand Top-Notch #2 hit newsstands November 1st 1939. CGC designates it the first Swastica on the label. (not my book, but I wish it was!) Amazing man #9 came out December 13th 1939 I wish cgc would label it the 2nd swastika cover. I always thought Marvel Mystery #2 was the second swastika in comics, but looks like it's 3rd. At least it's the first nazi flag, and first Timely comics swastika. I wish I had a nicer copy, but even in this grade it was pretty pricey. Marvel Mystery #2 featuring The Angel in a wartime cover hit the newsstands on Oct. 13th, 1939. To my knowledge this is the very first anti-nazi cover featuring a costumed hero (regardless of the technically inaccurate swastika insignia on the rudder of one bomber). This is not only born out by the cover, but also by the Angel's text story, so the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible. One would hope that future labels might incorporate such information for those collectors interested in historical details. My (for raised interest rate) [font:Times New Roman]Note: Through the magic of Photobucket editing I've removed any vestige of Lord Voldemort's incriminating label for those who may be sensitive to such things. [/font] Sorry, Cat, I'm not buying it. This thread, and the CGC label designation, refer to the cover only, not an interior text story. Of course those are Germans on the cover of MM2, but they muddied the waters with the altered imagery. I think Top-Notch 2 retains the crown. On Marvel 3 the legless dwarf is wearing boxers with swastikas on them. Really. That is what the artist included in the inking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I LOVE pre war anti axis comic covers, so thanks for the topic! I wish they put the for sale dates on the cgc labels >< I usually find my dates from mike's amazing world of comics newsstand Top-Notch #2 hit newsstands November 1st 1939. CGC designates it the first Swastica on the label. (not my book, but I wish it was!) Amazing man #9 came out December 13th 1939 I wish cgc would label it the 2nd swastika cover. I always thought Marvel Mystery #2 was the second swastika in comics, but looks like it's 3rd. At least it's the first nazi flag, and first Timely comics swastika. I wish I had a nicer copy, but even in this grade it was pretty pricey. Marvel Mystery #2 featuring The Angel in a wartime cover hit the newsstands on Oct. 13th, 1939. To my knowledge this is the very first anti-nazi cover featuring a costumed hero (regardless of the technically inaccurate swastika insignia on the rudder of one bomber). This is not only born out by the cover, but also by the Angel's text story, so the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible. One would hope that future labels might incorporate such information for those collectors interested in historical details. My (for raised interest rate) [font:Times New Roman]Note: Through the magic of Photobucket editing I've removed any vestige of Lord Voldemort's incriminating label for those who may be sensitive to such things. [/font] Sorry, Cat, I'm not buying it. This thread, and the CGC label designation, refer to the cover only, not an interior text story. Of course those are Germans on the cover of MM2, but they muddied the waters with the altered imagery. I think Top-Notch 2 retains the crown. On Marvel 3 the legless dwarf is wearing boxers with swastikas on them. Really. That is what the artist included in the inking.... I'm wearing Nazi boxers right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacentaur Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1st Nazi turtle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareHighGrade Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Top Notch #1's Wizard story involves a plot by the "Jatsonians" to attack Pearl Harbor (see text of bottom left panel of 1st scan). As can be seen in the second scan, the "Jatsonians" looked like . . .. Sorry I cannot make the scans larger. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I would agree with you about Marvel Mystery 2 if it had a swastika on the plane... I wish it did. There are plenty of generic looking military covers before Top Notch #2, but without Nazi markings they just don't count. I believe the decision to include or not include nazi markings was something the publishers were very cautious about. DC took awhile to commit when they could've had this in august of 1939! I bet the book would be worth a lot more if they did. I just saw this OG art too, clearly not the cross. Too bad tho. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I would agree with you about Marvel Mystery 2 if it had a swastika on the plane... I wish it did. There are plenty of generic looking military covers before Top Notch #2, but without Nazi markings they just don't count. I believe the decision to include or not include nazi markings was something the publishers were very cautious about. DC took awhile to commit when they could've had this in august of 1939! I bet the book would be worth a lot more if they did. I just saw this OG art too, clearly not the cross. Too bad tho. Good catch! I should've reviewed the OG or Marvel Mystery Omnibus to clear that up. OTOH, it looks like Superman may just be flexing his muscles on a generic British tank with generic British soldiers firing at him (it might've been intended as an anti-war cover). Still, unless proven otherwise, I'm persuaded by the evidence that MM #2 is the first anti-axis cover featuring a costumed hero. Gotta admit Bedrock may be right about that legless dwarf wearing swastika boxers on MM #3, ...I've never peaked under the slab! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Top Notch #1's Wizard story involves a plot by the "Jatsonians" to attack Pearl Harbor (see text of bottom right panel of 1st scan). As can be seen in the second scan, the "Jatsonians" looked like . . .. Sorry I cannot make the scans larger. That's amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...