DC Comics Rebirth

[drotto]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

I agree completely.

 

When Indies became mainstream and allowed creators to make real money off their creations, the writing was on the wall for Marvel and DC. Creator's don't want to create new characters or new stories for the big 2 anymore. That is why we see characters like Gwen Pool, Spider-Gwen, Winter Soldier, female Thor, Wilson Cap, etc. It is also why most of the recent "events" have underpinnings based on past stories. It isn't an accident that the big summer crossover from Marvel was called Secret Wars.

 

But, despite this, I believe the publishers themselves do care about the characters. Most of these creators are not corporate stooges and Brubaker's Winter Soldier, despite reaching into the past to resurrect at long dead character, is a decent character that allowed for decent stories. Yes, it wasn't a new character per se, but new enough. I have no doubts that the corporation does put pressure on publishing to maintain the status quo, but I also believe the editors, writers, artists, etc. are doing their best under those circumstances to tell good, engaging stories. All without giving away new characters they can use in their own publishing pursuits, of course.

 

The long time reader has tied the publisher's hand in some cases too. We don't want to see our characters change and grow. The status quo sells. So do events, gimmicks, and variants. Whenever the publishers stumble across an idea that sells, they rush to do more of the same. That has been the case for the comic industry since the beginning.

 

And it makes absolute sense in this world of corporate owned publishing houses whose characters are summer tentpole movies that the real innovation in the industry is with the independent publishers. There probably isn't a creator alive today who's end goal isn't to create their own title and see it turned into a movie, TV series, etc. The Walking Dead has shown these creators what is possible, so working at the big 2 is just a stepping stone for most.

 

+1

 

Writers and artists who go to work for Marvel and DC usually do so with a history of interest (and love) of the characters, especially if they grew up here in the U.S.

 

The problem is, as you point out, they can't make changes or really do anything new either because they don't want to lose out on an idea they could benefit from in a creator owned project, or just because editorial won't allow it because it doesn't fit into the overall vision of 'the company'.

 

These characters are merchandise, worth X amount, not just in comics, but movies, toys, clothes, etc. So regardless of anyone's love or feelings or whatever for those characters, it is corporate that will set the parameters on what can and can not be done.

 

The safe route is to repeat what has come before, though I agree, in many instances we get some quality work from creators doing their best within the framework they have to work in.

 

I have had the opportunity to meet several artists and writers over the past few years. For the most part they have been very humble, talented, genuine people, that have a love for what they do. Even the big name ones, are thrilled to have the opportunity to work on the books that they have loved since childhood. Most seem fairly happy working for the big two, along with the usual gripes of deadlines, and editorial pressure etc.

 

With that said, I honestly think there is a happy medium where editorial can give creators some freedom, without giving too much leeway so they can't really screw things up. Some of the better titles coming out of both Marvel and DC right now are books where it is clear that there is less interference. There is great stuff being produced by both companies, that is being lost in the mess that has been made with many of the A list books.

[Thawk]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

 

I agree completely.

 

When Indies became mainstream and allowed creators to make real money off their creations, the writing was on the wall for Marvel and DC. Creator's don't want to create new characters or new stories for the big 2 anymore. That is why we see characters like Gwen Pool, Spider-Gwen, Winter Soldier, female Thor, Wilson Cap, etc. It is also why most of the recent "events" have underpinnings based on past stories. It isn't an accident that the big summer crossover from Marvel was called Secret Wars.

 

But, despite this, I believe the publishers themselves do care about the characters. Most of these creators are not corporate stooges and Brubaker's Winter Soldier, despite reaching into the past to resurrect at long dead character, is a decent character that allowed for decent stories. Yes, it wasn't a new character per se, but new enough. I have no doubts that the corporation does put pressure on publishing to maintain the status quo, but I also believe the editors, writers, artists, etc. are doing their best under those circumstances to tell good, engaging stories. All without giving away new characters they can use in their own publishing pursuits, of course.

 

The long time reader has tied the publisher's hand in some cases too. We don't want to see our characters change and grow. The status quo sells. So do events, gimmicks, and variants. Whenever the publishers stumble across an idea that sells, they rush to do more of the same. That has been the case for the comic industry since the beginning.

 

And it makes absolute sense in this world of corporate owned publishing houses whose characters are summer tentpole movies that the real innovation in the industry is with the independent publishers. There probably isn't a creator alive today who's end goal isn't to create their own title and see it turned into a movie, TV series, etc. The Walking Dead has shown these creators what is possible, so working at the big 2 is just a stepping stone for most.

 

+1

 

Writers and artists who go to work for Marvel and DC usually do so with a history of interest (and love) of the characters, especially if they grew up here in the U.S.

 

The problem is, as you point out, they can't make changes or really do anything new either because they don't want to lose out on an idea they could benefit from in a creator owned project, or just because editorial won't allow it because it doesn't fit into the overall vision of 'the company'.

 

These characters are merchandise, worth X amount, not just in comics, but movies, toys, clothes, etc. So regardless of anyone's love or feelings or whatever for those characters, it is corporate that will set the parameters on what can and can not be done.

 

The safe route is to repeat what has come before, though I agree, in many instances we get some quality work from creators doing their best within the framework they have to work in.

 

I have had the opportunity to meet several artists and writers over the past few years. For the most part they have been very humble, talented, genuine people, that have a love for what they do. Even the big name ones, are thrilled to have the opportunity to work on the books that they have loved since childhood. Most seem fairly happy working for the big two, along with the usual gripes of deadlines, and editorial pressure etc.

 

With that said, I honestly think there is a happy medium where editorial can give creators some freedom, without giving too much leeway so they can't really screw things up. Some of the better titles coming out of both Marvel and DC right now are books where it is clear that there is less interference. There is great stuff being produced by both companies, that is being lost in the mess that has been made with many of the A list books.

 

I dunno - they've killed a lot of them on and off, in the last year alone Supes has new powers and then no powers. Batman wasn't Batman, then Jim was - I'd say there's been all sorts of crazy things happening - I suppose we don't know where the ideas came from, but it doesn't seem like they're restricting ideas too closely (despite them not really working).

[Prince Namor]

It might be time at DC to reboot the powers that be making all these dumb decisions.

 

Look who's in charge:

 

Diane Nelson - No previous comic book experience when she took over. Have no idea what she brings to the table, other than corporate influence.

 

Dan DiDio - Nice guy, decent writer, but came from television. Has oversaw some big projects in his time at DC... But...things are not good right now...

 

Bob Harras - Editor and Chief at Marvel during a period they teetered on bankruptcy, infamously remembered for the Spider-man 'Clone Saga'. Certainly has the experience.

 

Jim Lee - great artist, super nice guy, failed publisher. Has he really ever created anything of lasting importance? The original Image mostly went under, Wildstorm went under...

 

Geoff Johns - really they should clear out the kitchen and let this guy run it all...

[krighton]

well, people were complaining pretty heavy with the New 52 that there would never be an Action 1000 or Detective 1000 or Batman 1000....so now you get your wish.

[paul747]

well, people were complaining pretty heavy with the New 52 that there would never be an Action 1000 or Detective 1000 or Batman 1000....so now you get your wish.

I don't think batman 1000 is coming IT SHOULD !

[Couchy81]

Batman twice a month? I think that is a HUGE mistake.

 

If it's a good read I won't mind.

[ygogolak]

It might be time at DC to reboot the powers that be making all these dumb decisions.

 

Look who's in charge:

Diane Nelson - No previous comic book experience when she took over. Have no idea what she brings to the table, other than corporate influence.

 

Dan DiDio - Nice guy, decent writer, but came from television. Has oversaw some big projects in his time at DC... But...things are not good right now...

 

Bob Harras - Editor and Chief at Marvel during a period they teetered on bankruptcy, infamously remembered for the Spider-man 'Clone Saga'. Certainly has the experience.

 

Jim Lee - great artist, super nice guy, failed publisher. Has he really ever created anything of lasting importance? The original Image mostly went under, Wildstorm went under...

 

Geoff Johns - really they should clear out the kitchen and let this guy run it all...

 

Who should run a billion dollar company, a guy who draws comics for a living or someone who has corporate experience?

 

Previous to her current roles, Nelson served as President of Warner Premiere, developing and producing direct-to-dvd feature films and short-form digital content for Warner Bros. Pictures and Warner Bros. Home Entertainment’s distribution businesses. She was also Executive Vice President, Global Brand Management for Warner Bros. Entertainment, a group she started in 2005 in order to continue the cross-company brand management work she began on the Harry Potter property in 2000, expanding efforts to include such iconic films as Batman Begins, Superman Returns, The Polar Express, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Happy Feet.

[ygogolak]

Batman twice a month? I think that is a HUGE mistake.

 

If it's a good read I won't mind.

 

Agreed, I just don't think it will be when you are under that kind of deadline crunch. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Rockyjo3]

I am nervous that having two books a week will be too much for writers and especially artists but other than that I really don't have a problem with anything that was announced.

 

I am anxious to see which creators are on what titles though

[Prince Namor]

It might be time at DC to reboot the powers that be making all these dumb decisions.

 

Look who's in charge:

Diane Nelson - No previous comic book experience when she took over. Have no idea what she brings to the table, other than corporate influence.

 

Dan DiDio - Nice guy, decent writer, but came from television. Has oversaw some big projects in his time at DC... But...things are not good right now...

 

Bob Harras - Editor and Chief at Marvel during a period they teetered on bankruptcy, infamously remembered for the Spider-man 'Clone Saga'. Certainly has the experience.

 

Jim Lee - great artist, super nice guy, failed publisher. Has he really ever created anything of lasting importance? The original Image mostly went under, Wildstorm went under...

 

Geoff Johns - really they should clear out the kitchen and let this guy run it all...

 

Who should run a billion dollar company, a guy who draws comics for a living or someone who has corporate experience?

 

Previous to her current roles, Nelson served as President of Warner Premiere, developing and producing direct-to-dvd feature films and short-form digital content for Warner Bros. Pictures and Warner Bros. Home Entertainment’s distribution businesses. She was also Executive Vice President, Global Brand Management for Warner Bros. Entertainment, a group she started in 2005 in order to continue the cross-company brand management work she began on the Harry Potter property in 2000, expanding efforts to include such iconic films as Batman Begins, Superman Returns, The Polar Express, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Happy Feet.

 

Jenette Kahn, who oversaw the greatest period of growth and creativity in the modern era of DC Comics was a publisher of Children's books and an avid comics fan (Her magazine 'Dynamite' often featured stories on Marvel and DC superheroes).

She then became a publisher at DC comics.

She THEN became President at DC Comics.

 

Stan Lee was a writer of comics at Marvel.

And then an editor at Marvel.

And then a Publisher at Marvel.

And then a President at Marvel.

He oversaw the greatest creative growth in the history of comics.

 

Geoff Johns doesn't draw comics for a living, he is a writer, editor and chief creative officer at DC Comics.

 

And so, in a sense yes, I would rather see him run the company as Editor in Chief or even President than some corporate goon from a completely different media source.

 

[JayT]

Diane Nelson was a logical hire at the time that may or may not pan out but she was a decent choice considering where media was going and she a lot of credit from Rowling for nurturing the Harry Potter brand into the titan it is today.

 

They basically put the person who was partly responsbile for their most successful project on to comics, which to me showed Warner Bros was very serious about the DCU. If anything, it was beneath her at that point and in fact last year she got another promotion.

 

I have no doubts that Nelson is good at what she does. I have doubts some of the other players are and I'd be mindful that DC's efforts in licensing and other media is far more lucrative than their comic book arm. If you consider the last several years and DC making a mark with things like Arrow and the Flash and have major motion pictures comic with (hopefully) a plan, they seem to better off than they were post-Green Lantern film.

 

Also, being able to write or draw a comic has about nothing to do with being a significant VP of a multibillion dollar corporation. Johns is in the exact position he needs to be in to "make good comics", he doesn't need to be the President of DC entertainment to do that. She's by all accounts a great executive, which is what her job is.

 

I do think there is a leash though and if certain major releases don't go well there can be a restructure, this is a big year for DC Entertainment, but none of that has anything to do with comics and probably never will be. That doesn't mean there won't be great comics in the future, it just means the president of entire entertainment division is probably not micromanaging the next issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. It's not her job, she has thousands of people under her. And replacing her with some dude that used to write good comics wouldn't do anything because he'd also have more important things to with that position.

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Diane Nelson was a logical hire at the time that may or may not pan out but she was a decent choice considering where media was going and she a lot of credit from Rowling for nurturing the Harry Potter brand into the titan it is today.

 

They basically put the person who was partly respsonsbile for their most successful project on to comics, which to me showed Warner Bros was very serious about the DCU. If anything, it was beneath her at that point and in fact last year she got another promotion.

 

I have no doubts that Nelson is good at what she does. I have doubts some of the other players are and I'd be mindful that DC's efforts in licensing and other media is far more lucrative than their comic book arm. If you consider the last several years and DC making a mark with things like Arrow and the Flash and have major motion pictures comic with (hopefully) a plan, they seem to better off than they were post-Green Lantern film.

 

Also, being able to write or draw a comic has about nothing to do with being a significant VP of a multibillion dollar corporation. Johns is in the exact position he needs to be in to "make good comics", he doesn't need to be the President of DC entertainment to do that. She's by all accounts a great executive, which is what her job is.

 

I do think there is a leash though and if certain major releases don't go well there can be a restructure, this is a big year for DC Entertainment, but none of that has anything to do with comics and probably never will be. That doesn't mean there won't be great comics in the future, it just means the president of entire entertainment division is probably not micromanaging the next issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. It's not her job, she has thousands of people under her. And replacing her with some dude that used to write good comics wouldn't do anything because he'd also have more important things to with that position.

 

And despite all of that....DC is coming off a month where: they have only five titles in the top 40 (Five!!!) , and 11 in the top 50. From icv2: "Only one DC title placed in the top 20 graphic novels in January, and only five in the top 30. To put that in perspective, only five DC graphic novels (out of the 21 it shipped in January) sold as well as the first volume of VIZ Media’s One Punch Man, which came out last September."

 

And... "The top launches from DC in January are Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life at #62 (31,351) and Swamp Thing #1 (29,048) at #68."

 

Which is coming off a year in which they saw sales fall.

 

And rather than come up with creative new ideas and books, they are, in order to falsely inflate their numbers (they hope) relaunching the entire thing again.

 

Sounds to me like what they ESPECIALLY need is someone with a creative background, a publishing background, and a COMICS background.

 

Marvel, other than Star Wars, is at least flatlining in sales, but they're smart enough to have creative people and actual publisher's run their company. (Axel Alonso, Dan Buckley, Stan Lee sort of)

DC is regressing and losing ground with a corporate person overseeing things.

Image is showing sales growth in both comics and trades.

 

Who runs the multi-million dollar Image Comics?

 

Writer and now publisher Eric Stephenson. Not a corporate goon. A creative person.

 

 

[ygogolak]

And despite all of that....DC is coming off a month where: they have only five titles in the top 40 (Five!!!) , and 11 in the top 50. From icv2: "Only one DC title placed in the top 20 graphic novels in January, and only five in the top 30. To put that in perspective, only five DC graphic novels (out of the 21 it shipped in January) sold as well as the first volume of VIZ Media’s One Punch Man, which came out last September."

 

And... "The top launches from DC in January are Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life at #62 (31,351) and Swamp Thing #1 (29,048) at #68."

 

Which is coming off a year in which they saw sales fall.

 

And rather than come up with creative new ideas and books, they are, in order to falsely inflate their numbers (they hope) relaunching the entire thing again.

 

Sounds to me like what they ESPECIALLY need is someone with a creative background, a publishing background, and a COMICS background.

 

Marvel, other than Star Wars, is at least flatlining in sales, but they're smart enough to have creative people and actual publisher's run their company. (Axel Alonso, Dan Buckley, Stan Lee sort of)

DC is regressing and losing ground with a corporate person overseeing things.

Image is showing sales growth in both comics and trades.

 

Who runs the multi-million dollar Image Comics?

 

Writer and now publisher Eric Stephenson. Not a corporate goon. A creative person.

 

You picked a month of a Marvel "reboot". 9 #1's in the top 25. I don't know who's to blame, the retailers for purchasing them or the customers who buy them.

And Image had 2 comics in the top 40 and 6 in the top 100.

DC is not solely responsible for comic books. There are A LOT of other properties that fall under that hat, unlike Image.

[JayT]

Diane Nelson was a logical hire at the time that may or may not pan out but she was a decent choice considering where media was going and she a lot of credit from Rowling for nurturing the Harry Potter brand into the titan it is today.

 

They basically put the person who was partly respsonsbile for their most successful project on to comics, which to me showed Warner Bros was very serious about the DCU. If anything, it was beneath her at that point and in fact last year she got another promotion.

 

I have no doubts that Nelson is good at what she does. I have doubts some of the other players are and I'd be mindful that DC's efforts in licensing and other media is far more lucrative than their comic book arm. If you consider the last several years and DC making a mark with things like Arrow and the Flash and have major motion pictures comic with (hopefully) a plan, they seem to better off than they were post-Green Lantern film.

 

Also, being able to write or draw a comic has about nothing to do with being a significant VP of a multibillion dollar corporation. Johns is in the exact position he needs to be in to "make good comics", he doesn't need to be the President of DC entertainment to do that. She's by all accounts a great executive, which is what her job is.

 

I do think there is a leash though and if certain major releases don't go well there can be a restructure, this is a big year for DC Entertainment, but none of that has anything to do with comics and probably never will be. That doesn't mean there won't be great comics in the future, it just means the president of entire entertainment division is probably not micromanaging the next issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. It's not her job, she has thousands of people under her. And replacing her with some dude that used to write good comics wouldn't do anything because he'd also have more important things to with that position.

 

And despite all of that....DC is coming off a month where: they have only five titles in the top 40 (Five!!!) , and 11 in the top 50. From icv2: "Only one DC title placed in the top 20 graphic novels in January, and only five in the top 30. To put that in perspective, only five DC graphic novels (out of the 21 it shipped in January) sold as well as the first volume of VIZ Media’s One Punch Man, which came out last September."

 

And... "The top launches from DC in January are Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life at #62 (31,351) and Swamp Thing #1 (29,048) at #68."

 

Which is coming off a year in which they saw sales fall.

 

And rather than come up with creative new ideas and books, they are, in order to falsely inflate their numbers (they hope) relaunching the entire thing again.

 

Sounds to me like what they ESPECIALLY need is someone with a creative background, a publishing background, and a COMICS background.

 

Marvel, other than Star Wars, is at least flatlining in sales, but they're smart enough to have creative people and actual publisher's run their company. (Axel Alonso, Dan Buckley, Stan Lee sort of)

DC is regressing and losing ground with a corporate person overseeing things.

Image is showing sales growth in both comics and trades.

 

Who runs the multi-million dollar Image Comics?

 

Writer and now publisher Eric Stephenson. Not a corporate goon. A creative person.

 

 

You just compared the responsibilities of a VP in multiple branches of a multibillion dollar multimedia corporation with a guy who oversees what is essentially a vanity publishing operation. I know you have your angle, and you are welcome to it, but I just lack the ability to begin a discussion if we are starting from this point. You win.

 

Now, I will say this, if DC, when they formed the new52 wanted to stress quality comics and relationship with talent, they should have kept and elevated Karen Berger if she was interested But even with that said, she would not be taking a job like Nelson's, it's not the same job. People like Berger hire people like Stephenson, they aren't colleagues.

 

RE: corporate goons.I'm always taken a back when people have negative opinions about corporations since much of their lives are supported by them and they probably wouldn't know what to do with their lives if they weren't here . Are they posting to these forums if you are against corporations so much. Iphone? Android? PC? Electricity being run into a house built with whose products? Do they mail things via UPS? Do they go to grocery stores? DO they have amazon accounts? DO they use paypal? DO they bank? Do they walk to work and not drive? Do they use google? Do they use gas? Do they watch movies and tv?

 

it's all rather silly.

[Thawk]

Interesting Johns has said all titles are going back to $2.99 too

[natevegas]

Interesting Johns has said all titles are going back to $2.99 too

Well at twice a month if they try the 5.99 its doom for them and sales per issue will fall after the #1 at a even larger rate. 6 a month versus 12.

[drotto]

Ironically, it seems like the better 52 stories have been coming out now as sales have been declining. Batman has been strong throughout, but most of the titles I have been enjoying are the newer 52 titles. Gotham Academy, Black Canary, Batgirl, even Justice League have been very good as of late. It makes me wonder how things would be if they had handles the original 52 launch differently.

 

I mean they had how many Green Lantern titles at the start (think it was 4), hoping that the bombed movie would boost sales. This was just an obvious sign of misreading the market, and which characters could carry DC going forward. For better or worse, the strongest part and most popular books of the NDCU have been the Batman titles. Basically everything else has struggled, plagued by poor stories, art, and lacking creative direction. They rebooted the universe and had no clear idea where they were going. So this is what you get.

[Prince Namor]

And despite all of that....DC is coming off a month where: they have only five titles in the top 40 (Five!!!) , and 11 in the top 50. From icv2: "Only one DC title placed in the top 20 graphic novels in January, and only five in the top 30. To put that in perspective, only five DC graphic novels (out of the 21 it shipped in January) sold as well as the first volume of VIZ Media’s One Punch Man, which came out last September."

 

And... "The top launches from DC in January are Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life at #62 (31,351) and Swamp Thing #1 (29,048) at #68."

 

Which is coming off a year in which they saw sales fall.

 

And rather than come up with creative new ideas and books, they are, in order to falsely inflate their numbers (they hope) relaunching the entire thing again.

 

Sounds to me like what they ESPECIALLY need is someone with a creative background, a publishing background, and a COMICS background.

 

Marvel, other than Star Wars, is at least flatlining in sales, but they're smart enough to have creative people and actual publisher's run their company. (Axel Alonso, Dan Buckley, Stan Lee sort of)

DC is regressing and losing ground with a corporate person overseeing things.

Image is showing sales growth in both comics and trades.

 

Who runs the multi-million dollar Image Comics?

 

Writer and now publisher Eric Stephenson. Not a corporate goon. A creative person.

 

You picked a month of a Marvel "reboot". 9 #1's in the top 25. I don't know who's to blame, the retailers for purchasing them or the customers who buy them.

 

DC's two #1's, couldn't break 32,000 copies. Who's to blame for that? The retailers who didn't buy enough copies or the customers who don't care?

 

Excuses.

 

And Image had 2 comics in the top 40 and 6 in the top 100.

 

That's to be expected of them. That's how they've performed. They are the #3 publisher. And in reality, Saga now at 50,000 copies (more than the world known Justice League of America) is a minor victory for them. That's how giant's get toppled. Apathy as the little guy makes small victories.

 

For DC, MUCH more is expected.

 

AND, where Image has made their biggest gains is tpb/gn sales. They are Diamond Comics Book publisher of the year, because they dominate tpb, gn sales. Another area DC is slipping severely.

 

Is that the retailers fault or the customers fault?

 

More excuses.

 

DC is not solely responsible for comic books. There are A LOT of other properties that fall under that hat, unlike Image.

 

You're right. But what we're talking about here is increasing the COMIC BOOK sales.

 

Sheesh. If I was the owner of DC Comics, and this was the responses you gave me for these failures, I would've already thrown you out the window.

[ygogolak]

 

DC is not solely responsible for comic books. There are A LOT of other properties that fall under that hat, unlike Image.

 

You're right. But what we're talking about here is increasing the COMIC BOOK sales.

 

Sheesh. If I was the owner of DC Comics, and this was the responses you gave me for these failures, I would've already thrown you out the window.

 

No worries, some of understand the corporate structure more than some that are a sole proprietor and have never dealt with the likes before.

[Prince Namor]

Diane Nelson was a logical hire at the time that may or may not pan out but she was a decent choice considering where media was going and she a lot of credit from Rowling for nurturing the Harry Potter brand into the titan it is today.

 

They basically put the person who was partly respsonsbile for their most successful project on to comics, which to me showed Warner Bros was very serious about the DCU. If anything, it was beneath her at that point and in fact last year she got another promotion.

 

I have no doubts that Nelson is good at what she does. I have doubts some of the other players are and I'd be mindful that DC's efforts in licensing and other media is far more lucrative than their comic book arm. If you consider the last several years and DC making a mark with things like Arrow and the Flash and have major motion pictures comic with (hopefully) a plan, they seem to better off than they were post-Green Lantern film.

 

Also, being able to write or draw a comic has about nothing to do with being a significant VP of a multibillion dollar corporation. Johns is in the exact position he needs to be in to "make good comics", he doesn't need to be the President of DC entertainment to do that. She's by all accounts a great executive, which is what her job is.

 

I do think there is a leash though and if certain major releases don't go well there can be a restructure, this is a big year for DC Entertainment, but none of that has anything to do with comics and probably never will be. That doesn't mean there won't be great comics in the future, it just means the president of entire entertainment division is probably not micromanaging the next issues of Red Hood and the Outlaws. It's not her job, she has thousands of people under her. And replacing her with some dude that used to write good comics wouldn't do anything because he'd also have more important things to with that position.

 

And despite all of that....DC is coming off a month where: they have only five titles in the top 40 (Five!!!) , and 11 in the top 50. From icv2: "Only one DC title placed in the top 20 graphic novels in January, and only five in the top 30. To put that in perspective, only five DC graphic novels (out of the 21 it shipped in January) sold as well as the first volume of VIZ Media’s One Punch Man, which came out last September."

 

And... "The top launches from DC in January are Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life at #62 (31,351) and Swamp Thing #1 (29,048) at #68."

 

Which is coming off a year in which they saw sales fall.

 

And rather than come up with creative new ideas and books, they are, in order to falsely inflate their numbers (they hope) relaunching the entire thing again.

 

Sounds to me like what they ESPECIALLY need is someone with a creative background, a publishing background, and a COMICS background.

 

Marvel, other than Star Wars, is at least flatlining in sales, but they're smart enough to have creative people and actual publisher's run their company. (Axel Alonso, Dan Buckley, Stan Lee sort of)

DC is regressing and losing ground with a corporate person overseeing things.

Image is showing sales growth in both comics and trades.

 

Who runs the multi-million dollar Image Comics?

 

Writer and now publisher Eric Stephenson. Not a corporate goon. A creative person.

 

 

You just compared the responsibilities of a VP in multiple branches of a multibillion dollar multimedia corporation with a guy who oversees what is essentially a vanity publishing operation. I know you have your angle, and you are welcome to it, but I just lack the ability to begin a discussion if we are starting from this point. You win.

 

Sure. Because they both oversee the Comics Publishing of a major U.S. comic publisher. She's in charge at DC. It appears she can not handle it, or make it work. Maybe they need someone to oversee, specifically the 'vanity publishing' operation of DC Entertainment.

 

I'm suggesting someone from a creative/publishing/writing background.

 

Now, I will say this, if DC, when they formed the new52 wanted to stress quality comics and relationship with talent, they should have kept and elevated Karen Berger if she was interested But even with that said, she would not be taking a job like Nelson's, it's not the same job. People like Berger hire people like Stephenson, they aren't colleagues.

 

Nelson's job is to oversee the publishing part of 'DC Entertainment'. She has other responsibilities, but it is HER that oversees it.

Stephenson's job is to oversee the publishing part of Image Comics. He has other responsibilities, but it is HE that oversees it.

 

Her job and responsibilities are bigger and worth more money than his. Ok.

 

The COMICS part of DC 'Entertainment' are struggling.

The COMICS part of Image are growing.

 

Maybe DC needs somebody in some position to run the freaking comics in a way that makes them successful.

 

I don't care what their title is. I don't care how big their car is. I don't care how big their metaphorical or physical weiner is. They just need to put somebody in a position to make it work.

 

RE: corporate goons.I'm always taken a back when people have negative opinions about corporations since much of their lives are supported by them and they probably wouldn't know what to do with their lives if they weren't here . Are they posting to these forums if you are against corporations so much. Iphone? Android? PC? Electricity being run into a house built with whose products? Do they mail things via UPS? Do they go to grocery stores? DO they have amazon accounts? DO they use paypal? DO they bank? Do they walk to work and not drive? Do they use google? Do they use gas? Do they watch movies and tv?

it's all rather silly.

 

A corporate goon is somebody who simply goes along with the whatever they're told to do by whoever in the corporate ladder tells them and doesn't have the creativity, foresight, or chutzpah to be a leader.

 

It has nothing to do with negativity towards corporations or whatever you were going on about.