DC Comics Rebirth

[RockMyAmadeus]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

[drotto]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

I only partially agree with this. Yes, WB and Disney only care about the IP from a business standpoint. But all comics seem to be both a house of ideas and a proving ground for new writers, artists and creators, who will then branch off into other media. If comics were not (and continue to be) a valuable source of both characters and plot ideas, we would not be seeing so many of them that originated in books. Most comics properties on film or TV draw big chunks of there plots from ideas the comic writers did first. From that standpoint the comics themselves remain valuable.

 

Furthermore, while not the cash cow that Movies and TV can be, and despite lower readership, the comic industry is still a $100 mil plus industry. While creators are not getting rich it still provides thousands of jobs, and makes some money. Otherwise, WB and Disney would have abandoned publishing traditional books years ago.

[Prince Namor]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

+1

[Prince Namor]

....But all comics seem to be both a house of ideas...

 

For Marvel and DC it's more of a 'House of RE-HASHED ideas'. I can't think of anything NEW they've done in decades...

[thatdudebooks]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

......

 

I'd consider myself more of a legacy Marvel fan over DC but all things considered this guy gets it. Ask around in your LCS and a good majority of current readers gush over books on the indie side of the fence. My top ten must reads barely include anything from the big two. I know I'm not in the minority with that stance.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

I only partially agree with this. Yes, WB and Disney only care about the IP from a business standpoint. But all comics seem to be both a house of ideas and a proving ground for new writers, artists and creators, who will then branch off into other media. If comics were not (and continue to be) a valuable source of both characters and plot ideas, we would not be seeing so many of them that originated in books. Most comics properties on film or TV draw big chunks of there plots from ideas the comic writers did first. From that standpoint the comics themselves remain valuable.

 

Furthermore, while not the cash cow that Movies and TV can be, and despite lower readership, the comic industry is still a $100 mil plus industry. While creators are not getting rich it still provides thousands of jobs, and makes some money. Otherwise, WB and Disney would have abandoned publishing traditional books years ago.

 

That's not quite accurate, based on some faulty information.

 

First, Disney has only owned Marvel since 2009. They bought the property because they recognized the film/TV/merchandising potential of the characters...not because the comics publishing industry makes any money.

 

Total sales of new material were about $388 million in 2015. Of that, Marvel has about 39%, or about $151 million...but that's at retail price. Marvel no longer distributes to the newsstand, so those numbers are fairly "hard" when it comes to new comics sales. Marvel only gets 39.5% of the cover price of any book (or, at least, that's how it was for many years; it may be slightly different now.)

 

So, of that $151 Million in retail dollars, Marvel only sees about $60 million....and that has to pay for the entire publication division, writers, artists, editors, printing, etc.

 

$60 million, of course, is what Disney might pay for a typical sci-fi thriller. In fact, 2011's "I Am Number Four" had about that for its budget.

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015.html

 

http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/237?articleID=173121

 

The comics publishing industry is not only NOT a cash cow, it is usually a drain. Again, publication, for the most part, is to keep IP rights for the characters.

 

Second, Warners and Disney don't care if Marvel and DC are "proving grounds" for writers, artists, etc (do you have any specific examples?) nor do they care if they are a "house of ideas." Warners and Disney have resources far and wide past "comic book stories" for creative talent, and when was the last time you heard of a comics writer becoming a famous screenwriter/director?

 

Miller?

 

Vaughan, maybe?

 

And when the studios do use comic stories as the platform for ideas, they turn to "the classics"....that is, stories that are, at this point, decades old, that consistently sell in TPB format...not anything new that is being published.

 

For Marvel and DC specifically, what current, or newer (within the last 5 years) storylines have been adapted for film/TV? I can't think of any.

 

But, several properties and/or storylines that were created in the 70's/80's/90's are being produced now...which again goes to the idea that Marvel and DC are only custodians of existing properties (including stories), not breeding grounds for new ideas.

 

Marvel and DC only publish comics to keep IP rights intact for their parent corporations. Everything else is just a function of that basic reality. And Disney is well on the way of abandoning print comics altogether.

[Prince Namor]

In 2010

Overall North American Comic Sales: $419 Million

If Marvel has 38.66% of the Dollar Market that is: $161.98 Million

If DC has 32.21% of the Dollar Market that is : $134.95 Million

And if Image has 4.49% of the Dollar Market that is : $18.81 Million

 

In 2015

Overall North American Comic Sales: $579 Million

If Marvel has 38.74% of the Dollar Market that is: $224.30 Million

If DC has 25.75% of the Dollar Market that is : $149.04 Million

And if Image has 9.93% of the Dollar Market that is : $57.49 Million

 

The industry grew 38% in that time

Marvel grew 38.47% over that time, in line with the overall.

DC grew 10.44% over that time, severely under the overall.

Image grew 205.63% over that time!!!

 

Couple of other factors:

Marvel raised their prices on comics to $3.99 (up a whole dollar) on the entire line, whereas DC stuck primarily to the $2.99 cover price with a few titles eventually going up to $3.99

Image is a mixture of $2.99 and $3.50 primarily.

 

These numbers reflect Comics, Trade Paperbacks, and Magazines sold by Diamond Comic Distributors to comic book stores, and reflect numbers as released through Diamond’s own website, and Comichron.com

 

It appears...

Marvel has, thanks to Star Wars, kept pace with the industry over the last 5 years.

DC has lost ground, in a scary way, considering the growth of the industry.

And Image, certainly with the help of Walking Dead, has exploded and come on strong, to eat up some of DC's share.

 

 

 

 

[kagenish]

i'll be hold judgment on this until we hear it from DC. i drop Marvel when they started to reset to #1 every year or every other year. it could be that we are getting a major event that cause the destruction of the New52 universe since the pre-52 was merge with the New52 during the convergence event. where you two of the same character walking around the same universe (superman and lois from pre-52) or characters getting memories of past events that they never played part in, like we are seeing in the titans hunt books. or DC could be doing a Marvel and just renumbering the books back to #1.

[juggernaut]

Something that underpins this entire discussion is this: Disney and Warners do not care about their comic book properties AS comic book properties.

 

This is the root of all of this. Disney and Warners only cares about protecting the rights to their intellectual property. They would publish comics of blank pages if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Comics publishing doesn't make anyone money, and hasn't for a very long time now.

 

DC and Marvel are now only caretakers, to make sure everything continues just fine for film, TV, merchandising, theme parks, etc...where the real money is.

 

So, if one is going to look for innovation in the comics publishing industry, you're going to have to look outside of Marvel and DC.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

i'll know to go heavy on Batman 1 and Detective 1.

Sounds right.

 

[drotto]

i'll know to go heavy on Batman 1 and Detective 1.

Sounds right.

 

Has Snyder singed on for additional issues yet?

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

i'll know to go heavy on Batman 1 and Detective 1.

Sounds right.

 

Has Snyder singed on for additional issues yet?

The rumors are Snyder will be switching from Batman to Detective Comics.

Snyder to Detective Comics ?

The best bets are Batman titles and any Harley Quinn.

I guarantee this DC Rebirth will not last as long as the new DC 52!

I remember I voiced my displeasure many years ago about the new DC 52 and was quickly scoffed at about how I should give it chance. I clearly saw it as nothing, but a gimmick. Yeah, sure the Snyder Batman titles sold well,but they lost integrity with a lot of old time DC readers when they canceled long-time numbering on titles like Action and Detective Comics.

I hope at least DC will cancel most of their titles this time, and just stick to Batman,Superman and Justice League related titles. Down-size to about 20 titles.

More Batman titles means more money. It`s better to publish two Batman titles than

publish two DC generic titles that will just get cancelled again because of low sales.

 

[drotto]

i'll know to go heavy on Batman 1 and Detective 1.

Sounds right.

 

Has Snyder singed on for additional issues yet?

The rumors are Snyder will be switching from Batman to Detective Comics.

Snyder to Detective Comics ?

The best bets are Batman titles and any Harley Quinn.

I guarantee this DC Rebirth will not last as long as the new DC 52!

I remember I voiced my displeasure many years ago about the new DC 52 and was quickly scoffed at about how I should give it chance. I clearly saw it as nothing, but a gimmick. Yeah, sure the Snyder Batman titles sold well,but they lost integrity with a lot of old time DC readers when they canceled long-time numbering on titles like Action and Detective Comics.

I hope at least DC will cancel most of their titles this time, and just stick to Batman,Superman and Justice League related titles. Down-size to about 20 titles.

More Batman titles means more money. It`s better to publish two Batman titles than

publish two DC generic titles that will just get cancelled again because of low sales.

 

To be honest at least 1/2 of the titles right now are Batman or Batman related titles. HQ and Batman are the true A-List DC characters at this moment. Now Superman will never be knocked off his perch and WW is always high up, but the rest of that characters have completely stagnated.

 

I have stated previously, most of the current plots could have been do without the reboot. In fact, other than screwing up the timeline for Batman, I can not even think of any serious retcons for the Batman family. Those titles basically continued on like 52 never happened.

[Thawk]

 

I have stated previously, most of the current plots could have been do without the reboot. In fact, other than screwing up the timeline for Batman, I can not even think of any serious retcons for the Batman family. Those titles basically continued on like 52 never happened.

 

Batgirl had a big change, going back to Barbara and removing Oracle from the current universe

[Grahf]

Superman Lois & Clark is crushing it for me right now, plus it has changes that I won't spoil.

[johnenock]

Will always buy Flash books regardless of numbering. The other books...even Batman and Harley...have always been a wait and see for me. I don't mind waiting a year or two and then picking up the issues I feel I want/need. I just buy older stuff when the new stuff dries up.

[romanheart]

I have to give it to DC. At least they stuck it out 5 years before caving in on a new reboot.

[bcphillips119]

[Magneto]

I have to give it to DC. At least they stuck it out 5 years before caving in on a new reboot.

 

[drotto]

 

I have stated previously, most of the current plots could have been do without the reboot. In fact, other than screwing up the timeline for Batman, I can not even think of any serious retcons for the Batman family. Those titles basically continued on like 52 never happened.

 

Batgirl had a big change, going back to Barbara and removing Oracle from the current universe

 

True, but even before new 52 they were starting (although very early stages) to set up Barbra being able to walk again. In some ways, I view it as following through.