Persistent Ebayer wants to deal privately

[1Cool]

I put doing deals off of E-Bay in the same category as speeding 8 miles over the speed limit - I know it's not the "right" thing to do but in most cases I don't have a moral problem doing it. Just one of those grey items in life I guess.

 

I'd love to have everything sell on E-Bay at my asking price but sometimes a buyer will want 20% off and I can't go that low since E-Bay is taking 10% off the top. Drop the 10% fee and the 20% discount becomes doable.

[Jeffro.]

Right or wrong based on what? Man made laws don't necessarily mean these rules are moral, and certainly not the laws from a corporation who's rules are set up so that they can make as much money as they can... Well you know what? I want to make as much money as I can as well.

 

It's an individual decision but keep in mind that eBay and PayPal is a cash cow. They make additional money off your listings that you paid for by way of ads. Like most stuff on the web, our comments, our activity and our eBay listings IS the content.

 

EBay and PayPal is also a monopoly, which in itself is unethical... according to the law anyways. The other much smaller auction sites may help validate eBay, but it's all a technicality because, lets face it... eBay has no real competition. Craigslist? Kijiji? Maybe, but they are also partly owned by eBay because that's what monopolies do. All this means is that eBay and PayPal is allowed to make up bogus fees. How much is too much?

 

Be that as it may, when you sign up for ebay, you agree to their terms of service and their rules.

 

But being a monopoly means we have no choice but to sign up if we want to buy and sell our books. Being in a position of power does not make ones actions just. Lest you think that Prince John was a more ethical person than Robin Hood. I'm not saying I'm Robin Hood but there is a difference between morals versus laws, especially if those laws are paid for by corporations.

 

 

Of course you have a choice. There are other selling avenues. No one is putting a gun to your head.

 

Where's the ethics in agreeing to terms of service and then breaking those terms? Sounds like you practice situational ethics when you don't agree with something

 

I do wish we had a viable alternative to ebay though. By that I mean competition from another similar site

[RockMyAmadeus]

Almost always make my offers privately - especially on more expensive books. I usually offer just a bit more than they would walk away with after eBay fees. I get a better deal and the seller gets more money and everyone's happy..ebay makes enough money nickel and diming . I see no issue with it as long as the communication is polite. If the answer is "no" then the answer is "no". If I don't get a response I suspect the seller is uncomfortable with it and I don't ask again. I sell my items the same way .

 

Sellers contract with eBay to provide a platform for sellers to get their items out to buyers...and people circumvent this, justifying it as "eBay makes enough money", as if that's a judgment anybody can make but eBay...?

 

 

I hate eBay. I long for the day that eBay goes down in flames, and have for years.

 

However...because they successfully drove out or absorbed all competition over the years (which is monopolistic), there aren't any other viable options for most things people want to sell.

 

It's hideous, but if you list your item, you should be willing to pay eBay's cut if that's how you sold your item.

 

Otherwise, you're just stealing from eBay.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I put doing deals off of E-Bay in the same category as speeding 8 miles over the speed limit - I know it's not the "right" thing to do but in most cases I don't have a moral problem doing it. Just one of those grey items in life I guess.

 

I'd love to have everything sell on E-Bay at my asking price but sometimes a buyer will want 20% off and I can't go that low since E-Bay is taking 10% off the top. Drop the 10% fee and the 20% discount becomes doable.

 

It's stealing. There's a difference between stealing and going "8 miles over the speed limit."

 

As 'fro said, if you don't want to pay the fees, don't use the service.

 

I sell things to CGC board members through eBay on a regular basis. It sucks, but that's the way it goes.

[Buzzetta]

I've no problem with this.

 

If I see a book offered by MCS or Metropolis available on eBay I go to MCS or Metropolis and buy it through their actual website as it is cheaper directly through them. So in order to be ethical I should buy it through eBay since I discovered the book while using their service?

 

 

Umm no.

[roscoPcoltrane]

P. Palmer..brother..you crack me up. great observation

 

And BTW..Vger7 is absolutely right and you guys know it. Since when did we start allowing the powerhouses to make the rules that appear to guide and comfort the sheep all the while lining their pockets because said rules prevent the average Joe from engaging in any activity that doesn't benefit the corporation ?

It's ok that they manipulate the market or technology...there are rules and everyone must follow them..we ,as corporate america, do what we want but just pretend we play by the same rules and everything will be great. It's always been that way and its the main reason you need to earn 180 /year just to survive . This is just a microcosmic glimpse of an entirely f*d up system.... "work hard, follow the rules and don't rock the boat and you too can have a happy life because we told you to "....I pay my dues like most people...taxes, health care with 9,000.00 co insurance plus premiums, outrageous interest rates, home insurance, car insurance, fees for phone, tv...and I'm even willing to pay FMV for a cool comic...everyone has their hands in the pot and all I'm trying to do is buy a book once in a while without giving up my 2 lbs of flesh. So I skate around ebays policy and their CEO has to wait a few months to trade in last years maserati...I can live with that

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've no problem with this.

 

If I see a book offered by MCS or Metropolis available on eBay I go to MCS or Metropolis and buy it through their actual website as it is cheaper directly through them. So in order to be ethical I should buy it through eBay since I discovered the book while using their service?

 

 

Umm no.

 

No, because you didn't use eBay's system to buy the item, and you, the consumer, knew that the item was also offered through other platforms. You are not obligated to do the deal through eBay...but the seller who lists on eBay IS, if that's how the consumer reached them.

 

It's why eBay doesn't allow listings that say "please see my website to buy this item for a lower price!"

 

There's some nuance here, for sure, but not overly much.

[roscoPcoltrane]

and "situational ethics" is exactly what these corporations are practicing....I find a line I'm comfortable with and I draw it. I know I take a chance breaking certain rules and I prepare myself for that consequence. If I were to justify "situational ethics" it would be that I "never f*** over my fellow man" ....billion dollar companies I don't worry about.

[RockMyAmadeus]

P. Palmer..brother..you crack me up. great observation

 

And BTW..Vger7 is absolutely right and you guys know it. Since when did we start allowing the powerhouses to make the rules that appear to guide and comfort the sheep all the while lining their pockets because said rules prevent the average Joe from engaging in any activity that doesn't benefit the corporation ?

It's ok that they manipulate the market or technology...there are rules and everyone must follow them..we ,as corporate america, do what we want but just pretend we play by the same rules and everything will be great. It's always been that way and its the main reason you need to earn 180 /year just to survive . This is just a microcosmic glimpse of an entirely f*d up system.... "work hard, follow the rules and don't rock the boat and you too can have a happy life because we told you to "....I pay my dues like most people...taxes, health care with 9,000.00 co insurance plus premiums, outrageous interest rates, home insurance, car insurance, fees for phone, tv...and I'm even willing to pay FMV for a cool comic...everyone has their hands in the pot and all I'm trying to do is buy a book once in a while without giving up my 2 lbs of flesh. So I skate around ebays policy and their CEO has to wait a few months to trade in last years maserati...I can live with that

 

It would be easier to read your posts if you had paragraph breaks.

 

That said, the fact remains: if you agree to terms, abide by those terms. If you don't agree to those terms, don't use the service.

 

That holds whether it's your friend down the street, or the biggest corporation in the world.

 

You don't have the right...nobody does...to decide how much is "enough" for someone else, despite what the educational system might be teaching. It's none of your business, and can't be used to justify stealing. It's none of my business how much you make, by the way, either.

[RockMyAmadeus]

and "situational ethics" is exactly what these corporations are practicing....I find a line I'm comfortable with and I draw it. I know I take a chance breaking certain rules and I prepare myself for that consequence. If I were to justify "situational ethics" it would be that I "never f*** over my fellow man" ....billion dollar companies I don't worry about.

 

Right.

 

"It's ok to steal from _______ because I think it is" and "if they do it, I can do it."

 

That's what it boils down to.

 

What is your eBay handle?

[Jeffro.]

P. Palmer..brother..you crack me up. great observation

 

And BTW..Vger7 is absolutely right and you guys know it. Since when did we start allowing the powerhouses to make the rules that appear to guide and comfort the sheep all the while lining their pockets because said rules prevent the average Joe from engaging in any activity that doesn't benefit the corporation ?

It's ok that they manipulate the market or technology...there are rules and everyone must follow them..we ,as corporate america, do what we want but just pretend we play by the same rules and everything will be great. It's always been that way and its the main reason you need to earn 180 /year just to survive . This is just a microcosmic glimpse of an entirely f*d up system.... "work hard, follow the rules and don't rock the boat and you too can have a happy life because we told you to "....I pay my dues like most people...taxes, health care with 9,000.00 co insurance plus premiums, outrageous interest rates, home insurance, car insurance, fees for phone, tv...and I'm even willing to pay FMV for a cool comic...everyone has their hands in the pot and all I'm trying to do is buy a book once in a while without giving up my 2 lbs of flesh. So I skate around ebays policy and their CEO has to wait a few months to trade in last years maserati...I can live with that

 

When you and Vger7 signed up for ebay, you agreed to their terms. Then, you decided

" their terms. I'm doing it my way" Obviously, you're okay with that but don't pretend that it's right

[Jeffro.]

and "situational ethics" is exactly what these corporations are practicing....I find a line I'm comfortable with and I draw it. I know I take a chance breaking certain rules and I prepare myself for that consequence. If I were to justify "situational ethics" it would be that I "never f*** over my fellow man" ....billion dollar companies I don't worry about.

 

Right.

 

"It's ok to steal from _______ because I think it is" and "if they do it, I can do it."

 

That's what it boils down to.

 

What is your eBay handle?

 

Of course, it's all the rage these days to on the people who have come up with an idea and turned it into a million/billion/whatever dollar industry. They don't deserve any more money. They have enough.

[RockMyAmadeus]

P. Palmer..brother..you crack me up. great observation

 

And BTW..Vger7 is absolutely right and you guys know it. Since when did we start allowing the powerhouses to make the rules that appear to guide and comfort the sheep all the while lining their pockets because said rules prevent the average Joe from engaging in any activity that doesn't benefit the corporation ?

It's ok that they manipulate the market or technology...there are rules and everyone must follow them..we ,as corporate america, do what we want but just pretend we play by the same rules and everything will be great. It's always been that way and its the main reason you need to earn 180 /year just to survive . This is just a microcosmic glimpse of an entirely f*d up system.... "work hard, follow the rules and don't rock the boat and you too can have a happy life because we told you to "....I pay my dues like most people...taxes, health care with 9,000.00 co insurance plus premiums, outrageous interest rates, home insurance, car insurance, fees for phone, tv...and I'm even willing to pay FMV for a cool comic...everyone has their hands in the pot and all I'm trying to do is buy a book once in a while without giving up my 2 lbs of flesh. So I skate around ebays policy and their CEO has to wait a few months to trade in last years maserati...I can live with that

 

By the way....the reason that your complaints above exist are BECAUSE OF, not IN SPITE OF, the last sentence in your post.

 

Are you aware of that...? Or does that just not occur to you?

 

In other words "everyone else steals, so I'm going to steal, too, because the system is "f'ed" up"....which is exactly why other people (because corporations are composed of PEOPLE) steal...because "everyone's doing it, so why not me, too?"...you are part of that everyone who is doing it, which causes the whole system to continue to spiral down.

 

Do you see how it feeds on itself? Have you ever given that any thought?

 

Are you aware that eBay is composed of thousands of people, too, people who don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and who are affected by these actions?

 

No, the "it's not FAIR!" crowd never seems to think of that, and they certainly aren't taught to think that way. All of the "it's not FAIR!" crowd should be required to run a business for one year...their perspectives might change a wee bit.

 

[revat]

and "situational ethics" is exactly what these corporations are practicing....I find a line I'm comfortable with and I draw it. I know I take a chance breaking certain rules and I prepare myself for that consequence. If I were to justify "situational ethics" it would be that I "never f*** over my fellow man" ....billion dollar companies I don't worry about.

 

Right.

 

"It's ok to steal from _______ because I think it is" and "if they do it, I can do it."

 

That's what it boils down to.

 

What is your eBay handle?

 

I'm sure that guy has a MBA from Harvard and has gone over ebay's 10-K for the past few years as well as the terms of their separation with paypal, and can opine with certainty that ebay 'makes too much money'.

 

Its one thing to say, "Hey, its not the most kosher thing in the world, but I'm gonna try to save myself a buck now and again, even if it occasionally means I step over the line, I accept the risk and consequences." Its another thing entirely to try to justify those actions because you somehow have deluded yourself that you're a borderline 'robin hood' somehow making things more 'fair' or 'just', or that you or society at large are somehow 'owed' something by ebay other than what you've both MUTUALLY AGREED UPON IN A CONTRACT (terms of use).

 

 

[KPR Comics]

Wow. Just wow. The fee is a cost of doing business. Just like shipping, PayPal, etc. all make it more convenient to transact. If that's not palatable, there are all of those other less convenient avenues to drive on. And that CEO gets paid because he or she provides the vision that employs thousands and helps keep the economy humming.

[Jeffro.]

P. Palmer..brother..you crack me up. great observation

 

And BTW..Vger7 is absolutely right and you guys know it. Since when did we start allowing the powerhouses to make the rules that appear to guide and comfort the sheep all the while lining their pockets because said rules prevent the average Joe from engaging in any activity that doesn't benefit the corporation ?

It's ok that they manipulate the market or technology...there are rules and everyone must follow them..we ,as corporate america, do what we want but just pretend we play by the same rules and everything will be great. It's always been that way and its the main reason you need to earn 180 /year just to survive . This is just a microcosmic glimpse of an entirely f*d up system.... "work hard, follow the rules and don't rock the boat and you too can have a happy life because we told you to "....I pay my dues like most people...taxes, health care with 9,000.00 co insurance plus premiums, outrageous interest rates, home insurance, car insurance, fees for phone, tv...and I'm even willing to pay FMV for a cool comic...everyone has their hands in the pot and all I'm trying to do is buy a book once in a while without giving up my 2 lbs of flesh. So I skate around ebays policy and their CEO has to wait a few months to trade in last years maserati...I can live with that

 

By the way....the reason that your complaints above exist are BECAUSE OF, not IN SPITE OF, the last sentence in your post.

 

Are you aware of that...? Or does that just not occur to you?

 

In other words "everyone else steals, so I'm going to steal, too, because the system is "f'ed" up"....which is exactly why other people (because corporations are composed of PEOPLE) steal...because "everyone's doing it, so why not me, too?"...you are part of that everyone who is doing it, which causes the whole system to continue to spiral down.

 

Do you see how it feeds on itself? Have you ever given that any thought?

 

Are you aware that eBay is composed of thousands of people, too, people who don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and who are affected by these actions?

 

No, the "it's not FAIR!" crowd never seems to think of that, and they certainly aren't taught to think that way. All of the "it's not FAIR!" crowd should be required to run a business for one year...their perspectives might change a wee bit.

 

 

I say, old bean. I found a very nice cliff not far from here. Would you like to walk off it with me? Everyone's doing it!

[BlowUpTheMoon]

and "situational ethics" is exactly what these corporations are practicing....I find a line I'm comfortable with and I draw it. I know I take a chance breaking certain rules and I prepare myself for that consequence. If I were to justify "situational ethics" it would be that I "never f*** over my fellow man" ....billion dollar companies I don't worry about.

 

Right.

 

"It's ok to steal from _______ because I think it is" and "if they do it, I can do it."

 

That's what it boils down to.

 

What is your eBay handle?

 

I bet he ships comics via Media Mail too.

[namisgr]

Almost always make my offers privately - especially on more expensive books. I usually offer just a bit more than they would walk away with after eBay fees. I get a better deal and the seller gets more money and everyone's happy..ebay makes enough money nickel and diming . I see no issue with it as long as the communication is polite. If the answer is "no" then the answer is "no". If I don't get a response I suspect the seller is uncomfortable with it and I don't ask again. I sell my items the same way .

 

I've never understood this argument. People use this argument when pirating movies, software, etc. too. I'm pretty sure I've heard this argument for the Paypal Personal argument, as well.

 

Since when is it up to the consumer to determine when a business has made sufficient money that it is now ok to break their terms of service but use the service anyway...in effect stealing from them?

 

I usually ignore these offers. Maybe I'm making assumptions, but these offers often use "text speak" ("u" instead of "you", "pls" instead of "please", for example) and that just leads me to believe they're often members of a younger generation.

 

Rationalize away...it's still wrong.

 

+1

 

Still, this thread has been useful at identifying those most likely to cheat and steal in other walks of life. Screw the Man!

[roscoPcoltrane]

we're on two different planes here....I never said if A does it then I can do it - what are we - in 7th grade ?. There is right and there is wrong. But to blindly accept that corporate america follows all the rules is insane. They all manage the system to benefit their year end.

 

So, just because they have 14 lawyers and the funds to manipulate policy I should bend over ? If you're a corporate lawyer or surgeon you don't think they overcharge billable hours. The Physicians know the HMO's only pay a fraction of billable procedures so they jack up those costs which are quickly passed down to us through premiums. Fine..I get it and I pay my bills. But the system is set up to feed those in control..period.

 

All I am saying is that if all the big companies are continuing to regulate procedure to net profit and claim that its simply policy to protect the masses , when do i say "you know what ? enough...it may be small but it feels good to pay FMV for once ".

 

For some reason you want to make this black and white..."steal or don't steal...theres no gun to your head , but if you steal you are wrong and morally reprehensible. " I doubt very much that there exists a person who hasn't manipulated an opportunity at least once in their life. The ethical dilemma isn't as grandiose as "kill one to save 100"...it simply comes down to what you are comfortable with. If I know I'm not screwing the individual and actually helping him achieve more, then personally i don't care much about corporate policy because I know their system still works fine and they are still managing the filters at an acceptable loss. And if you feel its guys like me that drive corporate costs up ..I say ...maybe you're right, but they'll justify the increase through other avenues because that's what they do.

 

Oh...and the 180 isn't my income...that'd be distasteful.

[KPR Comics]

I totally get your frustration, but they are not manipulating anything. The fees are disclosed upfront and Sellers are able to bake those into their price. And I'm pretty sure FMV includes transaction costs (at least as far as GPA tracking of ebay sales goes).